superglue for fins

Im teaching a bunch of young 4H kids how to build their 2nd model rocket. The first one we always do is alpha with prebuilt fins which is always easy. I have them all making a baby bertha this time. In the past I teach them the double glue method but Im wondering if I could use superglue with with the fixer and maybe follow up with a glue fillet afterwards. I want the kids to be able to paint rocket in same meeting so was trying to come with a quick way to get fins set.

rocketdoctor99 said:

Im teaching a bunch of young 4H kids how to build their 2nd model rocket. The first one we always do is alpha with prebuilt fins which is always easy. I have them all making a baby bertha this time. In the past I teach them the double glue method but Im wondering if I could use superglue with with the fixer and maybe follow up with a glue fillet afterwards. I want the kids to be able to paint rocket in same meeting so was trying to come with a quick way to get fins set.

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I've had good success glueing balsa to paper tubes with with gap-filling CA (superglue).

Instead of the kicker spray (fixer), use baking soda. It sets the CA almost instantly, and can be used to build up a fillet. It is also less noxious than the kicker.

Also get some polyethelene gloves like THESE -- for safe handling of the CA.

jlabrasca said:

I've had good success glueing balsa to paper tubes with with gap-filling CA (superglue).

Instead of the kicker spray (fixer), use baking soda. It sets the CA almost instantly, and can be used to build up a fillet. It is also less noxious than the kicker.

Also get some polyethelene gloves like THESE -- for safe handling of the CA.

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how do you use baking soda, just sprinkle it on? good call on the gloves

SIMPLE: Run wood glue but leave two spots clear on each end of the root edge. Put small drops of CA on each end. Set the fin, the super glue will grab after a few seconds and set the fin to dry with the wood good. Easy and fast. You can later apply a wood glue fillet for extra strength. Always remember to rough up your surfaces.

Daddyisabar said:

SIMPLE: Run wood glue but leave two spots clear on each end of the root edge. Put small drops of CA on each end. Set the fin, the super glue will grab after a few seconds and set the fin to dry with the wood good. Easy and fast. You can later apply a wood glue fillet for extra strength. Always remember to rough up your surfaces.

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Wood glue wont allow painting in same assembly session like CA or epoxy would.

rharshberger said:

Wood glue wont allow painting in same assembly session like CA or epoxy would.

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I see that, should have read more closely. Then straight super glue it is. Strong enough for LPR, and if it breaks just super glue it again and it will be even stronger. Beware that some parent might claim epoxy is toxic and superglue is dangerous and irritating. Beware of crooked fin placement and super glued fingers.

Maybe use the spot weld or double glue method on their third one - teach them some decent technique and that quick and dirty with instant appeasement in one session is not always they way to go in life. But that is very hard to do with our new short attention span, instant gratification, video game generation.

Think about this: If you have even an hour to let them set I bet a thin application of TiteBond would dry enough to allow spray paint??? Is it really that much stronger that just straight CA?? Is strength and durability that important, or are these rockets just one and done?

rocketdoctor99 said:

how do you use baking soda, just sprinkle it on? good call on the gloves

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Pretty much -- yeah.



You could probably use a syringe, if you wanted precise placement -- but its essentially the same technique as applying glitter. Have them glue the fin on, then put the baking soda along the joint. The wet CA squeeze-out will catch the baking soda. The excess baking soda will fall off. If you want a wider/taller fillet, put down another bead of CA on the joint and repeat the baking soda application. It won't be as smooth as Glue-all or Titebond, but it will be strong enough to fly in just few minutes.

EDIT -- One thing to beware of with the baking-soda/CA -- its an exothermic reaction. Not a problem most of the time, but with a bunch of young kids you'll want to watch that nobody decides to add a LOT of CA to a LOT of baking soda.

IMHO, having kids use superglue would be problematic. Not only the possibility of them gluing their fingers together, but the fumes are pretty nasty.

Painting the raw balsa Baby B find is not going to look good. Cover with label paper? But that takes Xacto work at a minimum. It is going to be real hard to glue on fins and paint fast. If the 4 H kids could dedicate to 2 build sessions you could really do some cool stuff. Maybe even a Goonie. One session is an EX 2 with paint at best and from experience that is almost impossible with Girl Scouts we're most of them paid attention and we're very good. In the end I took paint scheme orders and painted them myself.

rocketdoctor99 said:

Im teaching a bunch of young 4H kids how to build their 2nd model rocket. The first one we always do is alpha with prebuilt fins which is always easy. I have them all making a baby bertha this time. In the past I teach them the double glue method but Im wondering if I could use superglue with with the fixer and maybe follow up with a glue fillet afterwards.

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I would absolutely NOT allow loosely supervised kids ANYWHERE close to superglue.

Visualize glued fingers, ruined cloths, and complaints of itchy irritated eyes at best.
Superglued hair and eyes at worst - it only takes one clown to scratch his irritated eyes with superglue covered fingers for you to have the worst day of your life!

This is based on personal experience of herding 2nd/3rd graders while they were semi-building rockets with a 4:1 kid/adult ratio.
Wood glue was everywhere, but no permanent damage recorded.
50+ rockets went up in the air the following month, ~75% survived to be airworthy for the second flight.

rocketdoctor99 said:

I want the kids to be able to paint rocket in same meeting so was trying to come with a quick way to get fins set.

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How long is the meeting?

Titebond sets in 20-30 minutes, and holds forever.
You may manage to paint a few kits if the meeting is 60-90 minutes long.

Expect ~50% completion ratio, so stock up on plastic bags and extra instructions to pass on to parents of the kids who can not complete the job on their own in the allotted time (regardless of how much time you give them ;-).

Good luck!
a

Daddyisabar said:

Painting the raw balsa Baby B find is not going to look good. Cover with label paper? But that takes Xacto work at a minimum. It is going to be real hard to glue on fins and paint fast. If the 4 H kids could dedicate to 2 build sessions you could really do some cool stuff. Maybe even a Goonie. One session is an EX 2 with paint at best and from experience that is almost impossible with Girl Scouts we're most of them paid attention and we're very good. In the end I took paint scheme orders and painted them myself.

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Some of us like the look of woodgrain showing through the paint. <grin>

That said, if the budget runs to it, it might be worthwhile getting in some different colors of contact paper and a few rotary cutters. The Olfa 18mm cutter is a little safer than an Xacto, and will do less damage to the fin if a hand slips while trimming the paper.

I recently watched a couple of 9 year olds use an 18 mm rotary cutter to free-hand fins for a Viking clone out of 1/16 basswood. They traced fin outlines onto the stock with fine-tipped Sharpie, then ignored my repeated instruction to use a straight-edge to make the cuts. The fins came out great.

Did the project last night and it worked out great, set the fins perfectly with superglue and accelerant. We set nice fillet with 1-minute epoxy that has a premix applicator. Fins were definately on good, kids dropped rockets and handled fins while painting and no problem. I had asked in our neighborhood social media app for used paint spray and got a bunch of different and fun colors that the kids used. We are talking 8 year olds so no fancy prep work not even priming is needed to make them happy. its the first time they even used spray paint. The one thing that I forgot to mention that in my meetings with kids under 10 Their parent is usually present and helps. I also had 3 advanced TARC team kids to help as well.

rocketdoctor99 said:

Im teaching a bunch of young 4H kids how to build their 2nd model rocket. The first one we always do is alpha with prebuilt fins which is always easy. I have them all making a baby bertha this time. In the past I teach them the double glue method but Im wondering if I could use superglue with with the fixer and maybe follow up with a glue fillet afterwards. I want the kids to be able to paint rocket in same meeting so was trying to come with a quick way to get fins set.

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Im sue you are looking for some supportive comments on this, but super glue and children...not really a good idea. Stuck fingers, burning eyes, fin alignment challenges, etc. Glue flllets would slow down the build anyhow. Better to teach them good building techniques. Not sure how you could paint a rocket in the same meeting as the build. ....IMHO

rocketdoctor99 said:

Did the project last night and it worked out great, set the fins perfectly with superglue and accelerant. We set nice fillet with 1-minute epoxy that has a premix applicator. Fins were definately on good, kids dropped rockets and handled fins while painting and no problem. I had asked in our neighborhood social media app for used paint spray and got a bunch of different and fun colors that the kids used. We are talking 8 year olds so no fancy prep work not even priming is needed to make them happy. its the first time they even used spray paint. The one thing that I forgot to mention that in my meetings with kids under 10 Their parent is usually present and helps. I also had 3 advanced TARC team kids to help as well.

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Okay, I'll offer a supportive comment. Well done. I am honestly less worried about the super glue than the kicker, but if it worked it worked. I read your comment and understand that you had a good kid/adult ratio for this.

For those who worry about stuck fingers and burning eyes.

1 - Buy some polyethylene gloves. CA does not adhere.

2 - Get some debonder, or a bottle of nail-polish remover.

3 - Give the kids little tubes of superglue gel. It sets relatively slowly, does not run, and can be used to built up a fillet (particularly if you have a bottle of the noxious, asphyxiant, chromosome scrambling, kicker spray handy <grin>).

4 - Work in a well-ventilated space.

Post some pictures of the launch?

I did a rocketry project with a 4th/5th grade class while doing my student teaching almost twenty years ago. Some people at my university (Willamette U) approached me to build rockets at a summer school program for Russian kids (we have a large Old Orthodox Community here).

I said I would, then found out that they wanted me to help them build and launch 200 rockets in two days.

The first day we built and painted the rockets. CA was the only option I could think of. We did not have any glued fingers and we got all the rockets built on time. The following day we launched the rockets in twenty rounds using a ten-lead pigtail and a car battery. We lost one.

Good kids can handle super glue, Xacto knives, plastic cement, sanding sealer and nasty solvents. How else would so many of us old farts survived the 60's and 70's.

Daddyisabar said:

Good kids can handle super glue, Xacto knives, plastic cement, sanding sealer and nasty solvents. How else would so many of us old farts survived the 60's and 70's.

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Post natural selection bias !
:kill:

afadeev said:

Post natural selection bias !
:kill:

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Yes, we were a select group of young, hardened cold warriors destined to rule the world. Not to mention wickedly good looking as well!