Madcow Avlanche

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

FlyBy01

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
607
Reaction score
396
Location
Virginia
It's not out yet but for sale and I have ordered this limited edition kit. This will be my first fiberglass HPR. I hope this thread will be full of other's builds of this rocket once they ship as well as lots of pictures and videos. I plan to do my level 1 & 2 with this airframe.

Now since I'm new; here is the can of worms: CTI or Aero Tech motor? Why? Or can't go wrong with either?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
I think they are all good products but if I were starting out again, I would probably use Loki. Some CTI motors are still hard to come by & AT has a back log on some motor cases. Also, Loki has a handful of motors that ship Hazmat free.
 
Loki 54/1200 loads would be awesome in this kit. 54/2000 would be cool too. a K527R sims to 11,000

AT 54/1706 loads run a little over $100 each and would ZOOM. K1103X would do 9500' at Mach 1.2
 
There are drawbacks to all loads, no matter who makes them. High power is a road you travel. I would stay away from big loads right off the bat. There is no hurry. You will need many rockets, lots of hardware, loads. That is just how it is, High power is not cheap. It takes time to do it well. Good Luck and always have fun...
 
If you bought this to fly at LDRS this year, be aware that Loki motors are not allowed in CA. But the on-site vendors will sell bunches of both AT and CTI motors which are allowed. I fly both, I prefer CTI for the larger variety of loads in each case size and easier assembly/cleaning, but the fire a few years back has still affected supply to today, so I've been flying more AT just because it was easier to get. Both CTI and AT generally have cert specials, where you can buy the motor and get the case it goes in for free. For AT I think the special may only apply to certain motors, and I assume CTI is still doing their special but not sure with the more limited supply.

I'm also waiting for an Avalanche and hoping to fly mine at LDRS.
 
The question will be what you what to fly most often, how high, and what your recovery area is like. Do you have local vendors at launches? If so going with what they carry is usually easiest. If you're shipping, Do you want to do one large order a year to minimize the cost of haz mat, or pick a system that has motors available that will ship without hazmat? That way you can order single motors at a lower cost per shipment. AT has a few non-haz 38's. Loki has quite a few. CTI doesn't have any.

Personally, for this one I'd get an AT 38/720 case and L1 on an I600R, then turn right around and L2 on a J500G in the same case. Or get a Loki 38/480 and L1 on an I405LW, and a 54/1200 and L2 on a J820LW. There's about a million ways to do it, and they're all fun.
 
There are drawbacks to all loads, no matter who makes them. High power is a road you travel. I would stay away from big loads right off the bat. There is no hurry. You will need many rockets, lots of hardware, loads. That is just how it is, High power is not cheap. It takes time to do it well. Good Luck and always have fun...
Unfortunately I'm not good at picking cheap hobbies. My last rifle scope was 3K. I'm doomed. I had so much fun building rockets with my kids I'm BAR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
I was leaning towards CTI because of their 54mm starter kit. I will have to check my local club to see what my options are or if the club does a group buy. Thank you all for the leads from experience. Total new guy at HPR and fiberglass. I just built some Estes with the kids but have the itch to go bigger.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
Best / cheapest / easiest way to buy motors is from an on-site vendor at your launches. No shipping, no HAZMAT. Regardless of what wonderful motors there are out there, I'd buy from an on-site dealer every time.

That said, you'll need to look at what motors are available to be shipped without HAZMAT from each company. Well, CTI is easy -- none. Aerotech and Loki vary, and Loki doesn't make any 29 mm. But Loki does have several 38 mm motors that ship without HAZMAT. If you get above an I with any vendor, it is HAZMAT guaranteed. Unless, of course, you are buying on site.

If you don't have a regular on-site vendor but you do have a stash of cash, consider attending one big, national event a year and buying your year's worth of motors on-site.
 
Best / cheapest / easiest way to buy motors is from an on-site vendor at your launches. No shipping, no HAZMAT. Regardless of what wonderful motors there are out there, I'd buy from an on-site dealer every time.

That said, you'll need to look at what motors are available to be shipped without HAZMAT from each company. Well, CTI is easy -- none. Aerotech and Loki vary, and Loki doesn't make any 29 mm. But Loki does have several 38 mm motors that ship without HAZMAT. If you get above an I with any vendor, it is HAZMAT guaranteed. Unless, of course, you are buying on site.

If you don't have a regular on-site vendor but you do have a stash of cash, consider attending one big, national event a year and buying your year's worth of motors on-site.
Like button pressed.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
I was leaning towards CTI because of their 54mm starter kit. I will have to check my local club to see what my options are or if the club does a group buy. Thank you all for the leads from experience. Total new guy at HPR and fiberglass. I just built some Estes with the kids but have the itch to go bigger.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app

I fly with both the clubs in the Phoenix metro area, and vendors are scarce at these launches. SSS has Joe Henkemeyer who sells AT motors out of his van at the SSS launches. You might catch AMW/Pro-X at an occasional launch when they are here in the winter. They were at the TRA/PHX February launch. They sell CTI exclusively.
If you bought the Avalanche that TCC offered for the LDRS launch, and plan to attend, you could buy from Mike with Bay area Rocketry. He has both AT and CTI motors.
If you want more info. on "local" launches, PM me and I can tell you about most of the clubs within a 500 mile radius, and some that are a bit further away.
 
Best / cheapest / easiest way to buy motors is from an on-site vendor at your launches. No shipping, no HAZMAT. Regardless of what wonderful motors there are out there, I'd buy from an on-site dealer every time.

That said, you'll need to look at what motors are available to be shipped without HAZMAT from each company. Well, CTI is easy -- none. Aerotech and Loki vary, and Loki doesn't make any 29 mm. But Loki does have several 38 mm motors that ship without HAZMAT. If you get above an I with any vendor, it is HAZMAT guaranteed. Unless, of course, you are buying on site.

If you don't have a regular on-site vendor but you do have a stash of cash, consider attending one big, national event a year and buying your year's worth of motors on-site.
I could have sworn that someone had mentioned a high-peak half-length-grain haz-free baby J.
 
I could have sworn that someone had mentioned a high-peak half-length-grain haz-free baby J.

The AT J520 was supposed to be just that, but they had some issues with the delay timing and haven't put it on sale yet, though it was certified. It fit in the 38/1080 case but was closer in impulse to a 38/720 reload. Here's a link to the info on thrustcurve.
 
Why is that?

In addition to being certified by Tripoli, NAR, or CAR, all model or high power rocket motors must be registered by the California state government before they can be sold or used in California. It’s not an inexpensive process. Loki has not submitted their motors to this process.


Steve Shannon
 
Last edited:
California Fire Marshal has different requirement$$$ than the rest of the US.

In addition to being certified by Tripoli, NAR, or CAR, all model or high power rocket motors must be registered by the California state government before they can be sold or used in California. It’s not an inexpensive process. Loki has not submitted their motors to this process.


Steve Shannon

Thanks guys, did not know.
 
Just checked it. Site says "Shipping in March 2018". That tells me it should be very soon....
 
Being its a LDRS rocket it needs to get out in time for people to build it. I am sure MC will get them out in time.
 
Best / cheapest / easiest way to buy motors is from an on-site vendor at your launches. No shipping, no HAZMAT. Regardless of what wonderful motors there are out there, I'd buy from an on-site dealer every time.

Thing is, the majority of NAR and Tripoli chapters do not have an on-site vendor.
While the advice to give business to the locals is reasonable, it's is probably impractical for 90% of the readers.

It is also rarely the cheapest way to obtain the motors. You can usually order AT and CTI motors at significant discounts, while on-site vendors usually charge full MSRP.
For example, BMS offers AT motors at regular 15-20% discounts all year around:
https://www.balsamachining.com/


There are drawbacks to all loads, no matter who makes them. High power is a road you travel. I would stay away from big loads right off the bat. There is no hurry. You will need many rockets, lots of hardware, loads. That is just how it is, High power is not cheap. It takes time to do it well. Good Luck and always have fun...

Unfortunately I'm not good at picking cheap hobbies. My last rifle scope was 3K. I'm doomed. I had so much fun building rockets with my kids I'm BAR.

Then you should have no trouble diversifying across multiple motor suppliers!
I am sitting on a pile of 54mm AT and CTI motors from last year's black Friday sale.

Some of that is result of having one brand's on-site vendors at certain clubs vs. the other, and wanting to have the flexibility to fly both brands.
Some of that is the result of me entering AT + CTI + Loki motor #s ( into an XLS, and ordering the lowest $$/Newton motors when cross comparing the three brands (drop me a PM if you want to see the #s).
Some of that is just having a bit of fun...
:shock:


If you don't have a regular on-site vendor but you do have a stash of cash, consider attending one big, national event a year and buying your year's worth of motors on-site.

Be very careful blindly following that advise, do price compare before you do.
Many online vendors offer 25-35% discounts around Xmas holidays (not applicable on-site), and those savings will add-up to many many many (10+x) times the cost of paying one-time hazmat fee.

Have fun either way,
a
 
Just an update for those that ordered this kit. It was scheduled to ship at the end of March, this did not happen due to one of Madcow's vendors. Michael at Madcow was extremely prompt in responding to my email. I'm not in a rush, I'm just a new guy whose like a kid at Christmas that can't wait to open my presents from Santa.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
Back
Top