If Loki made a 29mm H with a certified load would you buy it?

Kicking a TRF hornet's nest again. Leave a reply if you want to see a Loki H 29mm. Maybe someday. Sigh.

Definitely. I love the premise of Loki motors I'm slightly restricted by not having any rockets they fit... Ah well, an excuse to build more rockets I guess.

While we're requesting things that probably won't happen, a 38mm Loki adapter system would be a big selling point for me...

I like that adapter system idea for Loki 38. That could be a stepping stone in hardware products to help finance more research. One of Aerotech's man selling points in their 38 system is the RAS spacer and threaded forward bolt attachment closure devices. The thing Loki is cool at is how they package the propellants to avoid hazmats in most H-I!

Loki also does a bunch of niche EX hardware. I wouldn't doubt that Loki could make a Kodson J1000 or longer type casing. Whether there is a market is a whole other topic. I figured if they start with an H casing perhaps there's a way to expand.

I think they did make 29mm hardware for a bit- no reloads though, EX only.

I would totally buy a 29mm Loki casing and a certified reload if ever developed. I like the 17s delay options too. That blue color burning fuel in a K-1127 looks cool.

Andrew_ASC said:

Kicking a TRF hornet's nest again. Leave a reply if you want to see a Loki H 29mm. Maybe someday. Sigh.

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Not kicking a TRF nest. Scott's said multiple times there isn't enough money in it to make it worthwhile. Most of the new motors he's worked on lately have been unique, difficult to produce, stuff as much as you can, ass-kickers.

A lot of the trouble I see, is theres not a lot of reason to go down to 29mm for him. He's got the 38/120 case. It's non-hazmat and has a good selection of motors. Any 29mm H's would only compete with his 38/240 case. Those motors aren't particularly slow, so there wouldn't be much benefit going to 29mm.

The only reason to fly a 29mm loki would be to have F motors. Now... that I could get into, but the price would have to be low....and the volume he'd have to do to make a profit, would eat into his time making things like.... giant-ass 76mm N motors. It takes the same amount of time to pack just about any size motor...so there's just a point it isn't worth it for a small operation.

Now...if he was packing 30 29mm grains and rings into one bag... and selling them in bulk....hint hint make an F motor hint....

the trouble with a Loki spacer system is you'd need the nozzles anyways. So you're really just about better just buying cases

Let the customers buy the nozzles separately and inform them of what nozzle for what load is my 2 cents. Granted customers are prone to screwing stuff up and blaming companies. I could hear it now, used a #19 instead of a #17 and my casing CATO'd!

+1, Scott is A Guy. He makes really great motors that push the commercial envelope.

I already have a bunch of options in 29MM all the way up to I. I'm personally glad Scott isn't using up his time making lots of little grains.

I started in 38mm for use with Loki eventually. I do feel for the guys flying 29mm. And I also feel for the guys in other states where nobody showed the Fire Marshall the Loki product is just as safe as an AT or CTI casing.

Met Scott a couple of times. Stopped off in Peoria to try to show us how to characterize motors. Was a week or so before Steve Eve's Saturn 5 launch and was passing through. (Well heck, we paid him!) At the time he was just starting to work for Jeff Taylor (who originally owned Loki) and we really had a "blast". We really should'a stuck with a well characterized propellant to do test stand "instructional" runs but noooooo.................... Scott came up with this mix called "Baby S**t" that required us to scrounge around enough magnesium to make the mix. Well, I dumped a bunch of "my Mg" into the pot and still regret it. (I did recover with new supplies) and thankfully, Scott hasn't offered this as a Loki propellent choice as far as I know. Looks like light brown poop and all of the motors I've bought from him are far from that color.

Our group had a very good vacuum arrangement and we sucked the daylights out of it. Measured the weight of "each an' every" grain for the two grain 38mm test motors.
Scott showed us how to calibrate the load cell and "I POINTED OUT" in a moronic fashion that if one drops out the un-needed channels in the Dataq (free at the time software)
that the sampling rate went up! I recall he seemed impressed.

Well, we blew up his only loadcell that he brought to our "PAID TEACHING AND INDOCTRINATION SESSION" but none-the-less, he left us with the pr'fessors take on characterizing. Unfortunately, several mishaps occurred and our local club hasn't been able to proceed with characterization of propellants.

Well the bottom line is I've emailed Scott about the 29's in the past and heck he dug out some forward 29mm closures Jeff Taylor left for him and were unlisted on the site. I bought a few of them to have enough for the two cases I have. Pictures below:





I have another of the blue anodized "29's" in the other room. The three on the right are nothing to do with Loki but are Aluminum 24mm motors that conceivably can achieve an H impulse and I fired one with Research propellant that was an "H" impluse. The graphite nozzle was "toasted" to single use ( I saved it) and the aft snap ring was bowed out to the "nth" degree. A second more and the motor would've blown.

The grain configuration was really young man "stupid" and suffice it to say I had the top grain with a .125" core, did ultra-thin Kynar wire for an igniter.
This 24mm motor ran right up to the edge and didn't blow but a few fractions of a second more and the nozzle would have blown. The aft snap ring
was bowed out and the nozzle was incredibly "crumbly". The blue Loki cases on the left probably could do an I-300 safely with a well designed grain
configuration that is best left to an obsessive compulsive type who has an unlimited source of cases and nozzles.

I can appreciate not doing 29mm grains in a one man operation with the tediousness it takes to contsruct them. Best left to the "Ex" folks out there who
are adventurous. Kurt

First time I've ever seen the Loki 29's, thanks for the good story. How well do they match the posted measurements, right on target?

Andrew_ASC said:

Let the customers buy the nozzles separately and inform them of what nozzle for what load is my 2 cents. Granted customers are prone to screwing stuff up and blaming companies. I could hear it now, used a #19 instead of a #17 and my casing CATO'd!

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It's not so much preventing screw ups, as you're just not saving that much money.

I had spacer systems for my AT and CTI systems. Never used one. found I always flew 3 or 6 grain motors. People have this idea they need to be able to fly every motor. I found in practice that very few motors actually interested me. Typically I'll fly 2 cases in each size. I currently use AT 29/180, 240 and 360. Loki 38/120 and 1200, a Loki 54/1200, and a loki 76/6000.

DavidMcCann said:

It's not so much preventing screw ups, as you're just not saving that much money.

I had spacer systems for my AT and CTI systems. Never used one. found I always flew 3 or 6 grain motors. People have this idea they need to be able to fly every motor. I found in practice that very few motors actually interested me. Typically I'll fly 2 cases in each size. I currently use AT 29/180, 240 and 360. Loki 38/120 and 1200, a Loki 54/1200, and a loki 76/6000.

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Too many gaps......

I can help you with that.......

Teddy

Onebadhawk said:

Too many gaps......

I can help you with that.......

Teddy

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No gaps....just have to fly lots of big ones

Andrew_ASC said:

If Loki made a 29mm H with a certified load would you buy it?

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Yes!

Tobor said:

Yes!

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Don't hold your breath. Kurt