Lakeroadster's X-Wing Alpha Build Thread

Thanks for the insight Neil.

K'Tesh said:

Sorry I forgot to mention the problems with PBT's better. I've been pulling some long shifts (12 hour days), and doing report cards (on one occasion until 1am), and I've just been shackled with two one on one students with vastly split class times on what used to be my time off. I'm a little tired.

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No worries... life has a way of pushing aside hobbies.

lakeroadster said:

Sweet. Any photos of the rocket?

I added the weapons to the weapons tubes in OpenRocket... really love that program!

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Lakeroadster, here is my version of the X-Wing...

rosko_racer said:

Lakeroadster, here is my version of the X-Wing...

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Wow.. very impressive.

Engine size? How did it fly?

lakeroadster said:

Wow.. very impressive.

Engine size? How did it fly?

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... It was build for an 18mm Motor. I scaled it base on blueprints found on the internet. Built for fun, not accuracy. It is 11" long, 3.35" tall (X-foils open), and an 8" wingspan.

It has not flown yet. Do not know how much it weights now... but will post it once I figure it out. Mostly built from card stock, balsa, dowels, launch lugs, styrene sheets, body tubes, and lots of patience.

Spent a few hours today on the X-wing.

• Made paper and then cardboard templates of wings and vertical stabilizers,
• Wings and vertical stabilizers cut and stack sanded,
• Body tube cut,
• Rear stiffener chamfered and glued to BT,
• Engine bulkhead glued inside BT,
• Cockpit canopy balsa cut and glued together

Also designed and built a fixture to ensure the wings that are 180 will be aligned.

Good times! :wink:

Worked on the cockpit canopy and profiled the wings and stabilizers.

Do you guys always seal the balsa components before attaching them to the body tube? For the fins, yeah that makes sense. But for an item like the cockpit canopy wouldn't it make more sense to glue it to the tube.. then seal it?

You are going to have to fill in the gaps on the edge so I would do it after attachment to insure a good bond to the balsa at the critical points.

Thanks!

lakeroadster said:

Worked on the cockpit canopy and profiled the wings and stabilizers.

Do you guys always seal the balsa components before attaching them to the body tube? For the fins, yeah that makes sense. But for an item like the cockpit canopy wouldn't it make more sense to glue it to the tube.. then seal it?

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I think it depends what you mean by "seal". If you mean fill the balsa grain, I think Elmer's wood filler can be used BEFORE gluing pieces together (at least with wood glue) because it is porous, so unless you put it on in chunks, the wood glue will glue right "through" it.

SANDING SEALER and primer and paint on the other hand are not porous, so if you use these before attachment, you need to leave "bare" areas for your glue to stick to.

YMMV.

Nice build and great documentation, BTW.

Tom

lakeroadster said:

Do you guys always seal the balsa components before attaching them to the body tube? For the fins, yeah that makes sense. But for an item like the cockpit canopy wouldn't it make more sense to glue it to the tube.. then seal it?

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Seal all horizontal balsa services "before", easiest while they are still embedded into the balsa sheet (before you cut out individual pieces).
Make sure to sand off the sealer form the attachment points, before gluing.
Once attached, they are harder to work with, and you risk detaching them if sanding too aggressively.

"After" gluing everything together, you will still need to sand post primer application, and to smooth off whatever you had missed earlier.
Paint always adheres unevenly to paper body tubes, so some sanding between first few coats is inevitable. Still, I would rather do more sending earlier, than once fully assembled. It's way easier, and you are less likely to break something off this way.

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1st and foremost, thanks to those who have commented above.

I spent some time working on the Wings, Vertical Stabilizers and Nose Cone today.

Following Tim Van Milligan's advice I used CA on the end grain of the flat stock (except for the root - wood glue future edges), then applied EWF. This is my 1st time with this, as a kid (47 years ago) we always just cut, sanded, glued, painted, launched.

Couple of questions:

• What grit sandpaper do you use to sand down the CWF?
• Do you chuck the nose cone into a drill press to sand it, thus to ensure profile?
• An idea came to me for the cockpit (see photo below).. since it's simply a small contoured balsa piece, couldn't I glue it to the body with wood glue and then simply seal it with CA?
• Do you folks rough up the body surface at balsa attachment points, or is that not required?

As always, thanks for helping me through my BAR phase.

It seems my slow pace and lack of talent has my fellow members disinterested in my build thread?

Nonetheless.. the thread marches on. :horse:

Sanded down the 1st coat of EWF on the balsa components today.

FWIW :2:: I used my drill press to sand the nose cone and it worked excellent. Basically stuck the wooden eye bolt insert into the nose cone and chucked that into the drill press. Using my finger as a steady rest on one side while sanding lightly on the other. It was pretty easy to prep for the second coat of filler.

More later...

As I have well learned, it's hard to judge anything from the number of responses to a build thread. As you say, just soldier on. Folks will be reading, if not necessarily responding (at least that's what I tell myself...)

lakeroadster said:

It seems my slow pace and lack of talent has my fellow members disinterested in my build thread?

...

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I know exactly how you feel!

I am enjoying the build, like the idea of using drill for sanding nose cone (how do you make sure it is perfectly centered, though?)

Even if people are not replying, you can tell people are reading it because it lists number of views under the Scratch Built heading. Trust me, people are reading this thread.

Tom

lakeroadster said:

[*]Do you folks rough up the body surface at balsa attachment points, or is that not required?]

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For balsa contact points, either don’t sand the balsa surface at all, or if you have to sand it to shape it, use the coarsest (most coarse?) grit you have.

Also something I usually forget, most body tubes have a glassine outer layer. Yes I had to look it up

Definition of glassine. : a thin dense transparent or semitransparent paper highly resistant to the passage of air and grease.

Also resistant to GLUE. it’s a good idea to lightly scuff this with a fine grit sandpaper where you want to attach fins, launch lugs, and other paraphernalia .

Thanks, as always, for the input fella's!

BABAR said:

... like the idea of using drill for sanding nose cone (how do you make sure it is perfectly centered, though?)

Tom

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I bought the nose cone from BMS. It had a hole drilled in it, and came with a splined insert to go in the hole. I slid the insert in partially and chucked that into the drill press.

I'll post up a photo when I perform the "round two" sanding.

My balsa nosecone sanding trick is to seal balsa nosecones with super Thin BSI CA glue. I then "paint" the nosecone with a Sharpie, and sand until I finally remove all of it.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...rial-Making-Balsa-Nosecones-Look-Like-Plastic

K'Tesh said:

My balsa nosecone sanding trick............

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Slick! Literally and figuratively... I'll have to try that on ye ole x-wing canopy. Hopefully Luke and R2D2 won't get sick from the Sharpie fumes :dark:.

Personally I had good luck with K'Tesh's whole balsa CA process *except* for the Sharpie. I found sanding that off to be a real mess (dunno if I did something wrong, but I'm not sure what it could have been). I've since slightly modified my process to avoid the Sharpie:
1) apply CA to balsa nose and sand as prescribed. Repeat if necessary (I'm not sure about the second coat TBH).
2) apply coat of thinned CWF and sand. This is very quick and easy and fills in the remaining pits and/or inconsistencies.

I found it much easier to do this way, since it wasn't required to achieve perfection when sanding the CA.

Good results (process here):

And again, thank you for the advice and discussion since my last post.

Sanded down the 2nd application of EWF on the balsa components today. I once again used the drill press for the nose cone and took some photo's.

Then painted the parts with some Krylon Hunter Green Satin Paint / Primer.... closest thing I could find to Olive Green. The pictures below make it look more blueish than it really is.

I went ahead and chucked the nose cone back into the drill press and painted it while it was spinning.

For the fins I used a trick I learned watching one of the Apogee videos and used masking tape, sticky side up to hold the fins and to mask the surfaces that will eventually have wood glue applied to attach them to the BT, as well as where the weapons pods attach.

Question: What type of glue should I use to attach the splined insert into the nose cone?

Thanks..

Looking good. Painting the nose cone while spinning (how fast?) is an interesting idea. Did you just hold the paint can steady?

lakeroadster said:

Question: What type of glue should I use to attach the splined insert into the nose cone?

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That is a straightforward wood-wood joint. Wood glue all the way (TBII eg).

Looking good! That nose cone is really glassy. For the splined dowel wood glue should be sufficient.

neil_w said:

Painting the nose cone while spinning (how fast?) is an interesting idea. Did you just hold the paint can steady?

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260 RPM... moved the can in an arc, vertically, to ensure the tip and sides got equal coverage.

Happy Memorial Day!

The X-Wing has X-Wings :clap:

I drew lines on the BT where the fin C/L's were to be, then used an emery board to sand the "glassine" layer off at those C/L's.

My home made alignment fixture worked nicely to ensure the fins were parallel and aligned.

Also cut the BT's for the engine pods, and made the internal carboard components for the engine pods.

ME too.

Those plans look so good they could be used as a movie prop. The Rocket is looking good too. Keep up the good work! The Force is with you.

Sweet! Keep up the great work.

Oh btw, I've been subscribed to this thread since your first post.

Continues to look sharp, as expected.
As a Vet, thanks for the Memorial Day note.

BABAR said:

Continues to look sharp, as expected.
As a Vet, thanks for the Memorial Day note.

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Thank you for your service.

My 2nd cousin lost his life fighting for our freedoms. All veterans are near and dear to my heart.. 24/7/365.

Attached the canopy and the weapons pod body tubes today.