L1 Cert choices

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I'm trying to decide what to do about paint. I found this photo that seemed worth posting so others could see it. It's the closest I saw to what I'm building.

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The Crayola colors for the fins are maize and burnt orange in my eyes. There must be close matches in Rusto, but then I'd have to prime, sand, paint, sand and paint - and the surface would still be relatively rough compared to the perfect smoothness of molded plastic.

It's probably best to paint them after they are installed and filleted. I suppose that lets me defer the paint decision until after they get scuffed and a paint job would improve them.
 
Rockethound, nice to meet you at Snow Ranch and share in the excitement of rocketry. Good choice of the cardboard Nike Smoke as a starting point. I have built and flown one of those too.
Nike Smoke2.JPG

I have also built and flown a cardboard Estes Partizon on an I200 to 4,400 feet. The build for that is here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?66012-LOC-Vulcanite-vs-Estes-Partizon-build-challenge
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If I were just starting out with the intent of getting the most out one just one rocket, something like the Wildman Jr series, Scarab or other fiberglass 54mm airframe with a 38mm motor mount would be it. It could fly at LPR fields with no payload or eBay and a 29mm adapter and it would be practically indestructible with little effect from lake or stream water. On the other end, with electronics, Mach 1 and 8,000 feet are in the offing. 54mm is just wide enough to get your fingers in, big enough to be seen, cost effective and easily convertible from single to dual deploy.
Screen Shot 2018-03-23 at 3.38.22 PM.jpg
Here is the Wild Thang Jr set up for small fields - 1,300 feet on a G80.
 
Hey, Tom, thanks for dropping in!

I'm in the process of despiralizing the BT of the Smoke. Sanding, it has an abrasive personality. But I'm working on a device to make it easier.

I'm right in tune with you on the choice. I'm likely to go with the Darkstar 2.6 for much the same logic. Without the payload bay, using the JLCR, the lower works at SARG on a G motor, but the DD config is good on 38 and 59mm motors for 2K - 15K launches at Snow Ranch. K motors can break Mach.
DS26.png

This is fun. Hope to see you at the next LUNAR event, my L1 attempt.
 
I completely relate to the giggles. Phil Calvin's I-level Dark Matter blew my mind and pulled me into this rabbit hole.

Pick your motor out of a selection of 38s and 54s. The DS 2.6 has a wide envelope, seriously 2K-15K for DD config when the 54/38 adapter comes into play. SD opens up a lower range for SARG's 1500' waiver - even F motors hit 1000+. Very flexible rocket! I want the FWFG aluminum-tipped NC though; it has a Golden Ratio kind of attraction to me.

Sorted by max vel and apogee,,,

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DS26apogees.png

Back to the Nike Smoke
 
Random rocket photos for the weekend. From LDRS 27, Pershing missiles with Q series motors. Nothing else known. Feelings of envy noted.

LDRS27-Q.jpg


Slightly OT, here is the USS Iowa having a drag race of finless, external propellant, generally horizontal rockets:

iowa 640.png

I would not want to be on the receiving end of this phone call. The residual energy is forming a Mandelbrot pattern in the sea.
 
The Smoke is almost ready to go. First there was the mandatory paint-sand-paint process of hiding the spirals. Then the MM was glued into place with JB Weld.

Next came the CF rods and baffle.

DSC_6604.jpg

When the MM was glued into place, the four CF rods were snugged into the receivers on the top and blue-taped to the BT while drying when the baffle was inserted.

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All of the CF rods were bonded to the BT with CA.

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It was time to mount the rear CR and motor retention. Both surfaces were roughed up and guide lines drawn. This thin ring of aircraft ply was laser cut to provide a place to fillet the inside of the thrust-bearing CR.

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Then the CR could be mounted, using JB Weld applied liberally to the forward side of the help ring and also to the rearward. The CR was positioned, then pushed into position with the retainer.

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The excess JB Weld was cleanup up with DA and a motor with a wrap of baker's paper kept the retainer centered. There are a couple more fillets to make, but otherwise she is airworthy and ready for Saturday. The JLCR arrived today.

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Rather than fillet the baffle traditionally (11" down the BT), a 0.15" wide ring had been laser cut with notches for the CF stress rods. The sides and bottom were coated with BSI 15 min. I squeezed the BT gently so the ring dropped to the bottom. Some manipulation with an aluminum angle iron spread the glue, aligned the notches, and tamped the ring into place.

DSC_6640.jpg

There's as much bonding surface as a good size fillet that would have needed injection so deep in the BT. The launch lugs are on... a final coat of paint has been sprayed... she's ready to go.

I want to thank all the supporters of Jolly Logic Chute Release that took time to express their opinions. I ordered one based on your enthusiasm and list of benefits. I tested it tonight - it's ingenious and nearly failure-proof when the user takes care. Every test has worked. The next test is in the sky on Saturday with a G40-7.
 
Rather than fillet the baffle traditionally (11" down the BT), a 0.15" wide ring had been laser cut with notches for the CF stress rods. The sides and bottom were coated with BSI 15 min. I squeezed the BT gently so the ring dropped to the bottom. Some manipulation with an aluminum angle iron spread the glue, aligned the notches, and tamped the ring into place.

DSC_6640.jpg

There's as much bonding surface as a good size fillet that would have needed injection so deep in the BT. The launch lugs are on... a final coat of paint has been sprayed... she's ready to go.

I want to thank all the supporters of Jolly Logic Chute Release that took time to express their opinions. I ordered one based on your enthusiasm and list of benefits. I tested it tonight - it's ingenious and nearly failure-proof when the user takes care. Every test has worked. The next test is in the sky on Saturday with a G40-7.

Can't wait to see it, build has been impressive.
 
The weight came in at 640g with all hardware, including the JLCR, the retainer ring and extra paint. That works out to an apogee of 1441' using a G40-7. The NC and fins aren't painted; the NC might never get painted but the fins will. I'll let you know how it flies.

DSC_6642.jpg
 
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The weight came in at 625g with all hardware, including the JLCR, the retainer ring and extra paint. That works out to an apogee of 1441' using a G40-7. The NC and fins aren't painted; the NC might never get painted but the fins will. I'll let you know how it flies.

DSC_6642.jpg

OK, this is much heavier than mine. I'm at 19 Oz.
 
OK, this is much heavier than mine. I'm at 19 Oz.

Which is 540g or so. Let's say this is a purpose-built rocket. The fins are filled with epoxy/microbubbles, about 60g extra. The remaining 25g came from the baffle, reinforcing rings and glue throughout. JB was used on all MM and CR joints.

And then, there's a bit more paint that might be required.

Someone said "H410" and I thought it would be fun to see if the Estes could survive it. OR says 65G's peak - with apogee lower than the H115DM! I suppose I'll either fall in love in less than a second or watch the fur fly. I probably will try it. Maybe no one has ever launched this rocket with an H410 and brought it home intact.
 
Someone said "H410" and I thought it would be fun to see if the Estes could survive it. OR says 65G's peak - with apogee lower than the H115DM!

You exclamation point implies surprise, but there is nothing to be surprised about. Every rocket/motor combo has an optimum mass for max altitude. Most rockets usually perform better with a lower average thrust over a longer burn time. Long and slow is better than short and fast (that's what she said).
 
You exclamation point implies surprise...

I can see how it appears that way... and I know better than to be surprised. But there's all this power when the H410 is lit - 65G's acceleration is huge! For all its sparky wonder, the H115DM applies power more smoothly and doesn't have the breathtaking feeling of the H410.

I did a little research because of your post and learned something interesting. The H410's total impulse is 167N and the H115's is 178N, a ratio of 1.066. The simmed H410 apogee is 2232 compared to 2434 for the H115. 2232 * 1.066 = 2379... so only 55 feet out of 2400 is lost due to the difference in thrust curves. That's rather surprising in its own way.

please... for the love of god..

GET VIDEO !!!!!

Tom, my son bought a nice HD video camera last year. I'll try to reserve it for LUNAR launch day. Hmmm.... maybe I should think this through. It would be too much yin/yang to get the L1 cert in the morning then crush the rocket in the afternoon. I'll have the experts look it over in person and advise me. So far my favorite second launch motors are the H160-SK (2750') and the H70W (2800'). I hope I can borrow an altimeter to compare sim vs. actual.
 
I can see how it appears that way... and I know better than to be surprised. But there's all this power when the H410 is lit - 65G's acceleration is huge! For all its sparky wonder, the H115DM applies power more smoothly and doesn't have the breathtaking feeling of the H410.

I did a little research because of your post and learned something interesting. The H410's total impulse is 167N and the H115's is 178N, a ratio of 1.066. The simmed H410 apogee is 2232 compared to 2434 for the H115. 2232 * 1.066 = 2379... so only 55 feet out of 2400 is lost due to the difference in thrust curves. That's rather surprising in its own way.



Tom, my son bought a nice HD video camera last year. I'll try to reserve it for LUNAR launch day. Hmmm.... maybe I should think this through. It would be too much yin/yang to get the L1 cert in the morning then crush the rocket in the afternoon. I'll have the experts look it over in person and advise me. So far my favorite second launch motors are the H160-SK (2750') and the H70W (2800'). I hope I can borrow an altimeter to compare sim vs. actual.

I beg to differ on the H410 vs H115DM, the H410 will be gone in a blink, the H115DM will let EVERYBODY know and feel its presence Dark Matters are what we refer to as ANGRY motors, loud and awesome.
 
yes.. my level 1 and level 2 rockets hold special places on my rack.

And when your going to "play shrink the body tube" youll find the special rocket that you overbuild to survive the upward jaunt.

There are all types of people. the low and slow and the hey.. where did it go types..

Im in the where did it go category and i dabble in the low and slow once in a while.

Ill post the build when I gather the initiative. Possibly this weekend.

Tom
 
Ill post the build when I gather the initiative. Possibly this weekend.

By all means. Please PM me when you start it. I'm self-employed and hang around the forum less than one would expect from this thread. For now, at least.
 
Its already dry fitted together.. Just need to do some cosmetics so that its worthy of being with my other birds...

I already got epoxy, JB weld and a few other ideas to implement so that I can punish this one...

Lets find out the breaking point of a cardboard tube :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
I will be starting my 3" Nike Smoke this weekend, already have the fin cores, centering rings, anchor point baffle cut. The nosecone is a Estes PSII. Motor mount will be a 38mm most likely, and the nosecone fitted with one of my AvBays.
 
Lets find out the breaking point of a cardboard tube

I cheated. I built a better cardboard tube.

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The remaining weak point is at the top. I beveled the CF rods to prevent catching the chute on them while stuffing it. Sounded good, but at 65G's if the NC pushes down and widens the BT, there's nothing to stop the BT from expanding other than the cardboard and 8 coats of paint. I thought of putting another reinforcement ring at the top, pushed into position by the NC with Vaseline on it. Then the down-pressure would transmit directly down the BT and the NC would never get in the BT to expand it. I'm concerned about the ring interfering with deployment, though.

In all candor, I'm 80% low-and-slow, 20% get-up-and-go. I enjoy watching it work its way up, seeing the smoke and flames, looking for Mach diamonds.

A couple other enticing motors are the Redline with its pretty, tight, disciplined flame... and the one that pours out a column of black smoke. Is that a Smokey Joe? It's coming time to learn more about motors!
 
I will be starting my 3" Nike Smoke this weekend

Tres chic! Is this a scratch build?

Saw you're in SE WA. I know it's a big state, but my "future son-in-law" hails from Bainbridge Island. OK, this is like comparing SF and LA because they're both in CA, but it does bring us to Seattle now and then.

Are you coming to LDRS? I consider myself lucky to be entering the hobby just in time to see and truly appreciate LDRS when it's about as close as it can get.
 
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