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bigxmac

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I'm a senior in HS and will be going to college next year double majoring in computer science and finance. I also have been programming since the age of 14. When I was a child(7-11) I was very interested in space and had my own telescope and everything, but as I got older I didn't pay attention to it as much. In January of 2017 I watched a SpaceX launch for the first time after reading about some of the stuff they were doing in 2016. I have watched every launch since. In my senior year I look this really interesting Physics II class caught by someone who has a bachlors in physics/astrospace. I also started a model rocket club at my school and put our money together to get an E2X Estes kit. I recently bought and assembled a more difficult Estes kit, the "Mini Ccomanche 3". Still waiting for nicer weather to launch it. Model rockets are cool, but I'd like to get into some more advanced stuff with HPR and get my certs from NAR. There is a group, but they're a 2 hour drive away. (I'm from PA). I'm very self-motivated and am willing to read or learn whatever I can. I questions are as follows:

TLDR; here are my questions

1) Is there a role for computer programming in rocketry? How can I apply my programming skills to rocketry?
2) How would I go about getting into HPR and getting my certs for level 1 and later additional levels?
3) Is there any reading material resources you could recommend from an engineering perspective? (Hardest math I know right now is Calc I)

Thanks in advance for any help or guidence!
 
#1 others will be along with better answers, but Yes.

#2 Join a local club with either Tripoli Rocketry Association or National Rocketry Association and join one of those organizations as both offer Junior certification programs.

#3 The Handbook of Model Rocketry first, and eventually add in Modern High Power Rocketry and Make: High Power Rockets.

The most important thing is to find a local club and a mentor.
 
Where in PA are you? Is METRA close (Pine Island, NY)? It's only Tripoli, so if you searched nar, you wouldn't find it.
 
I'm a programmer as well... Here's what I've been working on:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?142671-ArdIU-Open-source-flight-computer-w-ATMega328

A few unrelated altimeter/flight computer projects recently-
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?144824-Rocket-Talk-Arduino-based-radio-flight-data
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?144307-DasAltimeter-%96-A-homebrew-rocketry-altimeter

I'm gonna be flying my L1 next weekend if the weather is OK... Sounds like you don't have a ton of experience with mid-power (E, F, G composite motors)? That's a good place to start, even on the small end of the range it's a big step up- your first Aerotech E15 is a life-changing moment: so much fire, smoke, and noise out of that little motor! Midpower is the place to start if you're thinking about L1. LOC Precision makes super nice heavy-duty cardboard airframes that make great midpower-to-L1 rockets. No personal experience with their kits (I scratchbuild mostly) but I've never heard a bad word about them. Madcow Rocketry is another big manufacturer, though they tend to lean more to the high-power side.

Definitely find a club!

By the way, the NAR National Sport Launch is in Geneseo, NY this year... It's a massive multi-day event with high-power vendors on site. I'll be there!
 
Hi Bigxmac.

Computers in rocketry? Absolutely. They couldn't fly the big ones without them. There are even a few people dabbling in trajectory control on the forum here. In HPR the needs are generally much simpler than the commercial rockets and might include altimeters and maybe some telemetry typically.

Here is a paper by someone in SpaceX which is basically a mathematical proof of their landing a mathematics. From my reading it shows that there are no unknown corner cases where the maths fail and that it is solvable in a predictable amount of time whenever it is needed. This is important if you are controlling a moving vehicle with a computer of limited computational ability :). Without computers non of what we see in the large rockets would be possible. It was done in the early days differently, typically using analog computers. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9209/221aa6936426627bcd39b4ad0604940a51f9.pdf

What to read? So much material. Other people may have some suggestions too, but these come to mind for me:
Try Rockets and Spacecraft Propulsion for a good intro into that area. You can skip the maths you don't understand until you do :wink: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...lopments.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2KtdGyhQ1eICDjs4c6SlcL
Atmospheric and Space Flight Dynamics is an interesting one too, if you can find a pdf somewhere. Might be a bit mathematical in places for you, but if you read the explanations you should get the gist of what is being said. It will also introduce you to the nomenclature of the topics which help greatly in the understanding of the field as you progress. https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9780817644376
Model Rocket Design and Construction might be a little more contemporary compared to Handbook of Model Rocketry suggested earlier. I think it is good, and IIRC I think it even went into dynamic stability which is not usually mentioned in the model rocketry books. Lots of practical advice and no complicated maths. https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...Construction?zenid=ma406humugmh07dr5jd9ae87s4


Getting into HPR? Start with something around mid power and work up from that. Attend some launches, ask questions, keep thinking. The books suggested earlier are good. Work your way up and enjoy the journey.
 
1) Is there a role for computer programming in rocketry? How can I apply my programming skills to rocketry?

Not directly, and not at the beginner level, but there are (see a link to a thread below).
However, I would not recommend going into the deep end of programming your own flight computers before you figure out how to properly build the rockets.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?142671-ArdIU-Open-source-flight-computer-w-ATMega328


2) How would I go about getting into HPR and getting my certs for level 1 and later additional levels?

You have to join and show up to a local NAR or Tripoli club launch to fly a "cert" flight.
Search for nearby clubs here:
https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/nar-club-locator/
https://www.tripoli.org/Prefectures

Beware that some of the listed clubs are not very active, and others exist only on paper/in monthly newsletters.
Do email ahead to make sure the one you picked is actually going to hold a public launch, and that you wont drive for nothing (BTDT).

I do not know where in PA you are, and the state is huge. If you are lucky, there is a local club/chapter/prefecture within an hours's drive of your house. If not, you might either have to drive longer, wait 6 months till you get to college, or buy your own low-/mid-power launch gear and launch by yourself (or with friends) at a nearby park, high school field, any open space devoid of trees.


3) Is there any reading material resources you could recommend from an engineering perspective? (Hardest math I know right now is Calc I)

With just Calc I, I would stick to gaining practical experience: buy a few low-/mid-/high-power kits, build them, launch them (yourself or with a club), repeat.

If you enjoy learning by reading, consider any of the following:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=high+power+rocketry

Good luck!

a
 
Welcome bigxmac,

When you do email those rocket clubs, remember to also check your spam folder for their reply.

Most people do have to drive long ways to launches, I drive an hour for a 5000' waiver That's all part of high power
 
1) Is there a role for computer programming in rocketry? How can I apply my programming skills to rocketry?
2) How would I go about getting into HPR and getting my certs for level 1 and later additional levels?
3) Is there any reading material resources you could recommend from an engineering perspective? (Hardest math I know right now is Calc I)

Thanks in advance for any help or guidence!

1 - What are your programming skills?

2 - As others have said, join a club. There may be one at you college.

3 - No. Look here to get a sense of breadth and depth of things not comprehended in a high school calculus or physics class. If you want to learn the physics, take physics classes. You cannot teach physics to yourself -- certainly not while pursuing a degrees in two fields which are not physics. That said you don't NEED to understand the physics to follow directions and do as others have done. Lots of folks with L1 and L2 certs who wouldn't be able to set up the differential equation that solves as the Tsiolkovsky equation.

If you want to read up on high power rocketry as a hobby -- Make: High-Power Rockets by Mike Westerfield is pretty good, although most of what is there you would be able to dig up on the web with just a little effort. Then again, a college student with a double major will not have time for hobbies.

As for computers in rocketry, there is a lot to do. Some computers will fly. Some computers stay on the ground and help you design the stuff that will fly. It would be better if you understood some physics, so you knew what to tell the computers to compute but -- again -- you can follow a script without knowing all the "why" parts.

If you think you want to do aerospace engineering for a living, change your major.
 
Programming.. Flight instruments have been mentioned. Altimeters, loggers, deployment control. You could also consider contributing code to Openrocket.

As a professional programmer, consider separation of hobbies. Particularly if you are planning to go into the field. If your hobby feels too much like your job, it's not as much fun.

Find a club and build a mid power rocket. The Aerotech 29/40-120 is a super versatile case and the reloads are a lot of fun, but still not HPR, so you don't need a waiver. The 24mm cases are a lot of fun as well. Even out west, I still have to drive about an hour for the launches.
 
Thanks for all the help. I'm near Wilkes-Barre, PA. So I'm either going to go to the NAR club in Philly or the Tripoli one in NJ. Leaning towards the philly one since I'll be going to college there (the school does have a rocketry club).

If you think you want to do aerospace engineering for a living, change your major

I've been seriously thinking about my major(s) recently and am not sure where I want to take my life.

Definitely going to check out and read some of those books.

Thanks again for everything!
 
Thanks for all the help. I'm near Wilkes-Barre, PA. So I'm either going to go to the NAR club in Philly or the Tripoli one in NJ. Leaning towards the philly one since I'll be going to college there (the school does have a rocketry club).

Ha - I almost know the area - my wife likes to shop at an outdoor outlet mall near you, and I do one or two DEs per year @Pocono raceway.

You are ~2 hours from Phili, and ~1.5 hours from two good rocket clubs:
- Godelski Farms where Radical Rocketeers (NAR chapter) will be launching the next Saturday, 3/17 (weather permitting):
https://radrocketeers.org/content/
- Metra Tripoli prefecture, which will be launching two weekends from now, on 3/24-25:
https://metrarocketclub.org/launch-schedule/

Come to one, or both!


I've been seriously thinking about my major(s) recently and am not sure where I want to take my life.
Definitely going to check out and read some of those books.
Thanks again for everything!

No point in rushing to a career decision before starting college - that's what it is for!
Take it easy, have fun, and come out and launch a few rocket before college puts a serious squeeze on your free time (if it's a good one).
 
Hey man, I'm a senior mechanical engineering student at University of Tennessee Chattanooga, I should be graduating this summer. This college didn't have a aerospace program, a few of the mechanical professors had aerospace PhD's and careers in NASA/military/industries. I'm trying to give you a perspective of other majors aerospace related. Mechanical focuses on component design airframes structures, or mainly propulsion systems rocket motor casing etc or sizing motors to servos for guided missiles and the controls system modification of servo responses but not the guidance pieces. There are many non aerospace applications which can keep decent money and food on the table. The same goes with electrical engineering, it is higher paying, circuits have more harder differential equations math so if you hate not seeing something move you may struggle, I loved circuits but was set on mechanical. Where I left off at circuits in electrical as a mechanical is where they get into the guts of the circuits like the mosfets or op amp boards and then they code the boards and can design GPS or telecom systems or whatever they want. In either major coding is very helpful. More useful in electrical but if applied to mechanical you could make lots of money for robot tooling optimization or thermal/fluid based theories. Missile DatCom is a fortran software for missile design some of my senior buddies are using at work. Somebody an engineer coded that crap for Mcdonnel Douglas but the knowledge might be beyond a normal programmer stuck in a day grind of coding just "someone else's program specs". If you can handle both mechatronics combines electrical and mechanical, they make really good money for setting up entire factory robots and code optimization. Electrical would offer cube sat launches for example (mini satellite). Only trying to open your eyes to related majors that apply some computer coding but they really expand base knowledge for component design of subsystems that wind up in rockets, airplanes, cars, anything that moves or has voltage really.


You would probably hate mechanical. For math on engineering it has calc 1 harder than your high school one, calc 2, calc 3, and differential equations. In mechanical you would love intro to computer modeling I got to learn full out cad programs and design parts. It has a lot of basic physics, civil statics of simple supported beams, chemistry, dynamics think more complicated versions of physics with energy transferring in collisions,impulse/momentum, mechanics materials (when objects break think any machined part on a rocket airframe wise the concepts apply for material failures) ,fluid mechanics (windtunnel uses, bernoullis, pitot tube design, manonometers, plate drag ,hydrostatics ,and pipe flow turbulent flow head loss), machine design (shaft vibrations/journal bearing design/bunch of stress methods), manufacturing processes (you may learn how to operate machinery or tour factories), I got to code a 1980's G-code CNC mill to manufacture pieces, you'd love the computer programming course with Matlab/Visual Basic, there's basic circuits 1 (circuit design to RLC circuits (some waveform coding with analog discovery), experimentation lab which convers transistors and stuff. Kinematics linkage design and TK solver coding. Material science. All of the thermal properties, thermo one, thermo II, heat transfer (I hate thermo but if you can code all the heat equations into a program with right logic you will be billionaire because most people hate it or suck at it), controls system (differential equations math based time varying robot and electrical system service responses) and in senior classes you get options to branch into automotive engineering course (this course had more of the cad modeling with features of doing computational fluid dynamics for drag forces and for the structural computing analysis by program) or in my case I took the advanced fluids (compressible gas dynamics) it had supersonic shock flows, supersonic wind tunnel design, and rocket nozzle/propulsion testing pressure transducer setup. Eventually in senior project called interdisciplinary design one and two, we founded a rocket club and won USRC SEDS 2017 3rd place with multistage HPR rocketry, the most basic HPR contest but challenging. Aerojet Rocketdyne and Lockheed Martin are serious employers and already got to have an internship doing data acquisition and analysis on car factory robots. A large well funded mechanical or aero program will put you on track to a college rocket team project with design work to put on a resume' and the concepts apply. I have patentable supersonic airfoils and nosecones and did all the solidworks CAD design files on the rocket airframe and played with open rocket/FinSim etc. We beat some aerospace colleges. You get out what you put in. I got a student pilot's license and loved playing with FCC tech on free time. Rockets were new to me but I was pretty good at making 3D models and once I found out the software makes airfoils and does nosecones by equations and data point I was ecstatic. Granted I had to research a lot on my own. Forgot physics II electricity and magnetism and even three which had nuclear applications. There use to be a nuclear reactor route. Statistics and engineering Econ where helpful for running a business.

Other projects were hydrogen fuel cell water injection engine with coding the water injection flow rates and mechanical design and also there's Baja sae buggy with Adams car 3D suspension modeling where if you are coding dork you could input any racetrack of world and make a formula car. Less line by line code more using programs advanced features.

On a crazy whacky note if you start coding programs to do computational fluid dynamics or thermal or structural analysis more efficiently the engineers have very high demand for 3D and mathematical programs with high computing power for systems designs. On another note once you get a freakin' engineer degree you can tack another one on. Many mechs got aero masters or whatnot. Not sure what an electrical code add on likely coding related and higher system logic. Once on field for five years you can take an exam for professional engineer and sign off on component designs or also circuits or medical devices. It's literally limitless and the state recognizes this ability. Credible designs not an ad hoc inventor your designs would carry professional design worth.
 
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Programming.. Flight instruments have been mentioned. Altimeters, loggers, deployment control. You could also consider contributing code to Openrocket..
Controls and systems logic was an option. This Dr. Wigal lady at UTC designed the flight control system on Boeing 747. She teaches some intro to design mechanical class. He could ask her for more info on career insight. In email.
 
The bug was bitten! For your L1, triple check your recovery system. Otherwise it's not much different than MPR.

1) Is there a role for computer programming in rocketry? How can I apply my programming skills to rocketry? ...

We can always use more programmers to help out with OpenRocket. Currently we are in a bug-squashing phase for the next release. Check out the code on GitHub and see if there's a place you can contribute.
 
Sophomore (but first-year, so take with a grain of salt) Mechanical Engineer here at University of Alabama in Huntsville. I'm getting a Master's in aerospace and also minors in Math and CS.

If you're doing engineering, learn to love math. Math will overtake your life. I'm in Dynamics right now, it's what would happen if Physics, statics, and differential equations had a demon love child. It's rather awful.


WRT computers... You might already know this, but it's still worth saying...
There's 2 types of Computer majors. Computer SCIENCE is what I'm minoring in. It focuses mostly on high level programming, but there's a touch of digital logic, low level programming, and machine code in there. On the other hand, computer ENGINEERING is focused far more towards the electrical side, dealing with microcontroller assembly, bit logic, and signals.

If your school offers a choice, make sure you go with the one you want. For me, anything relating to electricity is black magic. So I went with CS.


However, when I'm applying for internships, the companies I'm talking to LOVE the fact that I know programming as well as being a mech major. You'd be surprised the number of mech majors who barely know how to write a basic Python script.




Now, to answer your original questions.....

1. Yes, computers are basically everywhere in rocketry. I know multiple guys who have made their own altimeters from an Arduino. If you know what you're doing, you can make a pretty advanced altimeter for not a lot of money.


2. I can't tell if you're under or over 18. If you're under 18, look at the Tripoli TMP program. This allows you to build and fly high power rockets under the supervision of a mentor who signs off on the flight card for you. It's what I did, and it was an awesome experience. The TMP program allowed a few of us teens on the forum to build a massive 9" diameter, 17' tall rocket that flew on an M or an N, I can't remember off the top of my head. And we did it when we were around 15-17 years old. Furthermore, iirc, the TMP program recently changed where your TMP certification rolls over to an actual L1 when you turn 18.

If you are 18, ignore my ramblings above. Fly some mid power motors, get addicted, and say goodbye to your wallet.

Further advice, from experience. Don't rush through the levels. I decided to try and get all 3 cert levels in around 8 months. L1 and L2 went great, but I still screwed up my L3 flight (dig through my post history to find the thread about Hyperion). I'm holding off a bit until I retry, and I'm going to work on flying smaller motors and really honing down my recovery and tracking skills before I rebuild Hyperion and redo my cert.


3. Reading: already mentioned in other posts, but Handbook of Model Rocketry and Modern High Power Rocketry II are 2 awesome books to read. Basically every rocketeer should be required to read through them, as they contain valuable information about all things relating to rocketry.



Technically, it doesn't take a whole lot of math skills to fly rockets. People have written programs to do almost all the math for you. BUT, if you know the math that's happening, it's really cool to understand WHY your rocket does what it does.


Hope some of this message helps.


Have a good day!
 
Hang in there Brandt. They're saving the real hard sh*t for you later. You will look back and laugh at dynamics and call that easy mode. I know how you think it's horrid. Yes it's hard when first learn it. Trust me later on it gets way harder. It just gets harder. They lie. Every semester harder. Junior/Senior year and you want to start questioning sanity even when you like the major. Many people I knew fail some classes is normal hang especially with a tough prof or two just hang in there. Don't give up on it power through it. Maybe your getting A's in everything, I don't know you. Most people I know aren't that way. Some courses I had to take multiple times but was worth it. Calc 1/ statics/thermo2. The senior design projects are extremely rewarding but at same time they have some of the hardest classes going on which just pushes a lot of people to limits. On the plus side you learn some real fascinating powerful concepts.

They'll start wanting to know everything you retained over the years and then they want to take that core knowledge deeper and it can get hard some times. Hopefully your university is better but I've seen anywhere from 60-90% leave the program by senior year. I've seen a lot of bright kids drop out. They weren't dumb it got real darn hard. You gotta want it.
 
Hang in there Brandt. They're saving the real hard sh*t for you later. You will look back and laugh at dynamics and call that easy mode. I know how you think it's horrid. Yes it's hard when first learn it. Trust me later on it gets way harder. It just gets harder. They lie. Every semester harder. Junior/Senior year and you want to start questioning sanity even when you like the major. Many people I knew fail some classes is normal hang especially with a tough prof or two just hang in there. Don't give up on it power through it. Maybe your getting A's in everything, I don't know you. Most people I know aren't that way. Some courses I had to take multiple times but was worth it. Calc 1/ statics/thermo2. The senior design projects are extremely rewarding but at same time they have some of the hardest classes going on which just pushes a lot of people to limits. On the plus side you learn some real fascinating powerful concepts.

They'll start wanting to know everything you retained over the years and then they want to take that core knowledge deeper and it can get hard some times. Hopefully your university is better but I've seen anywhere from 60-90% leave the program by senior year. I've seen a lot of bright kids drop out. They weren't dumb it got real darn hard. You gotta want it.



Currently holding a 3.66 GPA. I know multiple friends of mine who changed their major from Mech/Aero to CivE or something completely different like Physics or elementary education. Engineering is hella hard, but I've been told the payoff in the end is totally worth it.

Now off to finish this $%^& dynamics homework.
 
Lol... Nobody remembers anything past calc I unless you use it every day. You’ll already have forgotten 50% of the math they teach you by the time you graduate.

I’ve been having fun writing flight control (which is fancy rocket talk for something to open a parachute at the right time) and data logging code for microcontrollers all winter. For this though, you’re also going to need some skill with electronics. Basic circuit knowledge, soldering skills, and a general lack of fear regarding melting the odd component.. This is super useful stuff to know though. This is also the perfect kind of coding to cut your teeth on. Raw C with only couple of K of memory just like we did it in the “old” days. Bare metal stuff - but it’s basic fundamentals you have to know (at least if you ever want me to hire you :).

But spending 40 hours and $$$ building a nice mid power rocket and writing code and soldering small components means you really want to be sure you’re going to get that rocket back. Preferably in one piece and not on fire. The only good way to do that is to build and fly lots of smaller stuff first to get experience with what works and how it works, then work your way up to the big expensive stuff.

Stick with the programming too. Machines and information are taking over and the people to program them are in short supply. Know your stuff and you’ll have your pick of jobs. That said, my siblings are bankers and make 10x what I do.



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1) Is there a role for computer programming in rocketry? How can I apply my programming skills to rocketry?
2) How would I go about getting into HPR and getting my certs for level 1 and later additional levels?
3) Is there any reading material resources you could recommend from an engineering perspective? (Hardest math I know right now is Calc I)

Thanks in advance for any help or guidence!

If you think you want to do aerospace engineering for a living, change your major.

First of all, just about any engineering discipline will get you into rocketry as a job. Take a look at the open positions at SpaceX and Blue Origin:
https://www.spacex.com/careers/list
https://careers-blueorigin.icims.com/jobs/search?ss=1&hashed=-435648255

An Aero/astro engineering major will certainly get you there, but there are lots of other approaches. A couple of years ago, I toured Blue Origin with the high school club I mentor. They said the hardest job for them to fill is software engineering. So there is definitely demand that way if you can program.

Currently holding a 3.66 GPA. I know multiple friends of mine who changed their major from Mech/Aero to CivE or something completely different like Physics or elementary education. Engineering is hella hard, but I've been told the payoff in the end is totally worth it.

Totally worth it. I may have chosen civil engineering for my major because I didn't have to touch differential equations again. I took a left turn into ship design after school because that was what I was interested in. Once you're out of college, the computers do the math for you for the most part. I haven't done anything harder than a square root in 20+ years of practice.
 
Raw C with only couple of K of memory just like we did it in the “old” days. Bare metal stuff - but it’s basic fundamentals you have to know (at least if you ever want me to hire you :).

I rememer writing a program in C for a class I took online that would load every word in the english language and then store it in a trie so it could do quick lookup for spell check. C is cool, but Strings (or char* :) ) are a pain unless you use a helper library (I did not)

Here's my plan:
1) Build one or two more smaller rockets (Estes Hi-Flier XL and V2 Semi-scale model)
2) Go to a local club's launches
3) Read those bo texts for the learning value
4) Work on my certs and MPR

Not sure if this is relevant, but I'm also studying to get my technicians level amateur radio license.

Thanks for all the advice and helping guide my journey into rocketry in the right direction!
 
One more question: What kit would you recommend for my L1 cert? Would a Wildman 2.2" Junior or Sport kit be a good starting point?
 
personally I would suggest going to a launch or three to launch your 'small stuff' and watch the bigger stuff, and put the HPR on the back burner to simmer for a while. the lpr rockets will let you hone your skills (while seeing what works for you). I would also suggest something in the 3" - 4" dia. range for a cert bird (craft paper and plywood) (there is that pesky bit about returning the rocket for a post flight inspection :)). the Wildman sport rockets are nice...but tend to teleport on larger motors. but that is just my opinion.
Rex
 
One more question: What kit would you recommend for my L1 cert? Would a Wildman 2.2" Junior or Sport kit be a good starting point?

I'd check out the Binder Design line of kits. Perhaps an Excel with the dual deploy package. You can fly it w/o the dual deploy then add it back in.

Excel1.jpg
 
As a professional programmer, consider separation of hobbies. Particularly if you are planning to go into the field. If your hobby feels too much like your job, it's not as much fun.

+1 I'm a software developer and while I'm willing to use those skills when necessary, I prefer to focus on building rockets (creating something in the real as opposed to the virtual world) for my hobby time. It's funny; you could say both are creating things and working with your hands, but somehow building physical things (rockets, trains, furniture, etc) is a perfect break from building software for me.

Programming has several applications in rocketry from embedded systems in flight computers to general application programming in desktop flight simulators. We even have a few web applications floating around. Many are open source projects so you can contribute to them if you feel motivated:
 
Currently holding a 3.66 GPA. I know multiple friends of mine who changed their major from Mech/Aero to CivE or something completely different like Physics or elementary education. Engineering is hella hard, but I've been told the payoff in the end is totally worth it.

Sounds like you're doing great, Black Brandt. Keep up the good work! If you develop good study habits by your Junior and Senior year, I think that the grades are easier to get. My roommate and I thought it was probably best to take at least one weekend night off by our Junior and Senior year. Over-studying didn't seem to make much difference. I got a BS in Aeronautical Engineering and a MS in Engineering Mechanics and worked mostly for Thiokol for my career with about 6 or 7 years in the nuclear power industry. Sure, I used computers a lot, but I did a lot of hand calculations and it paid to know the theory behind the computer code solutions. In many ways engineering college was hard, but the struggles in industry were different, but just as hard. I saw a lot of inter-office intrigues in industry that require an ability to rebound. There is a certain kind of perseverance that is needed in engineering regardless whether you are in college or industry.
 
Randall Munroe did a pretty good job of explaining it here

https://xkcd.com/1052/

While I was titled "engineer" in most of my industry jobs, I am a physicist by training. Worse, I currently teach engineering students. For those reasons any advice I offer ought to be automatically discounted as irrelevant by those currently pursuing degrees in engineering.

Take as much math as you can fit in your schedule. Bearing in mind always George Pólya's excellent advice that "math is not a spectator sport." Its not about learning math facts, or even how to apply particular techniques, its about learning how to think. Math training for scientists and engineers is exactly like strength training for athletes -- it always helps.

Don't "double major". The studies that report double majors have better earning prospects do not always distinguish professionals who went back for a second degree, from students who earned a post-grad degree in a different field from that of their undergrad studies, from students who divided their undergraduate study between two fields, from students who stayed in school to complete a second bachelors after completing the first... Your time and attention are finite. If you attempt to do two things at once you are more likely to do two things poorly than to do either of them well.

Pay attention to whatever anybody will teach you about measurement theory. Something my generation lost -- with the advent of pocket calculators, and the demise of slide rules -- was an understanding that mensuration and computation are the same thing.

Get into the shop. Learn to weld. Learn to solder. Lean how to use hand tools and big loud power tools. Have a machinist show you why that is something you have to train very hard to be. Alternately/additionally take studio classes in the art department. Never mind the currently fashionable silliness about STEM becoming STEAM, there is discipline and rigor to be learned in every skilled trade. If you complete your degree -- and if you are lucky in your employment -- you will work with people in the skilled trades. No matter what kind of engineering you do, there will almost certainly be skilled labor somewhere in the chain between the supplier, you, and the customer. It will help you, and them, if you have even the smallest clue about what they do.

Oh, and in case any of my students stumble upon this comment -- delete your social media accounts and lose your smartphone. You'll do do better in school, and the world will die a little less quickly.
 
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Here is some of the advice that I give to college seniors in seminars:


  1. Software Eats Everything. The value of almost every product and service (TVs, phones, cars, taxis, dog-walking) is increasingly determined by its software content.
  2. Expect to learn your entire life. Get good at continually researching new technologies. Don't silo yourself.
  3. Prototype! A tangible example of what you are designing is easy to make, and so much more persuasive (to you and others)
  4. If you haven't realized that machine learning will alter civilization radically during our lifetimes, you should learn more about it right away.

Especially #4. Seriously, get on this. You can watch the Stanford class that at one time was closely followed by venture capitalists here in Silicon Valley as the "most over-subscribed class at Stanford."
https://videolectures.net/stanfordcs229f08_ng_lec01/

Machine learning is important because we've pretty much reached the fragile limit of what traditionally-programmed software can do. Large software projects are prohibitively expensive and generally unreliable. Whereas the most recent version of AlphaGo Zero can learn the most complicated games without being told the rules and beat any person or computer on earth at it. And importantly: no one wrote code to tell them how to do it. The designers set up a configuration of neural nets, created a training harness (nowadays using another neural net that acts as a judge of how well the new system is doing, or ITSELF), and then simulate millions of games rapidly. The result is a trained system that not only always wins, it has "invented" fascinating strategies and tactics along the way. Watching DOTA 2 experts gleefully describing the battle techniques of an AI like this is pretty informative.

(The bot watches the same screen and uses the same controls as humans, with the same reaction times. On this video you'll see it beating the world's best player after the bot had trained for only two weeks. However, in two weeks it learned multiple human lifetimes' worth of strategies, feints, and counter-feints.)

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/yK5SxX3Ujs0?t=466[/YOUTUBE]
 
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Here is some of the advice that I give to college seniors in seminars:


  1. Software Eats Everything. The value of almost every product and service (TVs, phones, cars, taxis, dog-walking) is increasingly determined by its software content.
  2. Expect to learn your entire life. Get good at continually researching new technologies. Don't silo yourself.
  3. Prototype! A tangible example of what you are designing is easy to make, and so much more persuasive (to you and others)
  4. If you haven't realized that machine learning will alter civilization radically during our lifetimes, you should learn more about it right away.

Which way to the Paid Avoidance Zone? <grin>

+1 on #2.

It is an interesting question, whether the purpose of college ought to be career training. As I have watched college become high-school for adults, I am increasingly convinced that the purpose of post-secondary education ought to be training up minds for item 2 on John Beans' list.

bigxmac -- There still exists in the world a slim pamphlet by Seville Chapman -- written for physics students at Stanford in 1946 -- How to Study Physics. I first encountered it in excerpts scanned and posted by Don Simanek from Lockhaven University. Dr. Simanek's pages are slowly going dark, since his retirement, but this document has been rescued from the shredder and archived (w/ and w/o permission) by more than a few fans. For the moment, you can find a PDF here and a HTML version here. Save that PDF. Read the whole thing when you have a chance, but for the moment it will be enough to read the Preface and Chapter 1 "Why Go To College". Its not too much -- about 14 long-tweets.

 
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