What fuels are there that are better than Kerosene in terms of energy denstiy?

Both gravimetric and volumetric.

I watched a documentary that stated some of the new hypergolics were achieving ISP's of 360, but of course their formulas are secret.

Be/O2 - kinda toxic, tho.
Be/F2 - even more toxic
Li/O2, Li/F2 Same as above
(You kinda want to add some H2 to the above to get some gaseous exhaust products...)

H2/O2 - of course, but not volumetric

To further down the path mentioned by Larry, see "Ignition!" by John Clark.
https://archive.org/details/ignition_201612
New edition coming out soon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0813595835/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Also, refer to "Rocket Propulsion Elements", by Sutton.
https://archive.org/details/Rocket_Propulsion_Elements_8th_Edition_by_Oscar_Biblarz_George_P._Sutton
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0470080248/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Rideron said:

Both gravimetric and volumetric.

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Not much. RP-1 is pretty good. All aluminum composites are more dense but suffer from much lower ISP. If you hate living there is Hydrazine+bromine pentaflouride. I hear that one reacts explosively with everything though so I would avoid it. The better question is which fuel is the easiest to obtain and the least likely to kill you. From that standpoint, Kerosene+LOX is pretty good. Beware of the cryogel though...

My personal understanding has always been that any discussion of liquid fuels should be only academic in nature. It might be nice to know a little bit about why the professionals make the choices that they make but liquid fuels are too expensive and too dangerous for ordinary people to screw around with. I'm happy to watch, on television or on the internet, from FAR away (and maybe see a "live" launch someday from several miles away) but I'm too fond of ordinary things like... skin... and breathing... to even think about playing with those things myself.

Having said that, I realize that the folks in the Reaction Research group dabble with liquid fuels, but even there, as a group, they know more about chemistry than I will ever hope to know. I've studied engineering and I've had my share of chemistry classes, and I came away with two realizations related to this discussion, one, that the understanding of chemistry needed to to that kind of work (amateur or professional) is light years ahead of my ability and two, even people with a lot of intelligence, a lot of training, and a lot of experience, and screw up and this is an area where the s^&# can get out hand in a real hurry. The NAR and the TRA both stay away from liquid fuels for good reason and that's where TRF is too.

Please refrain from getting any more detailed in your discussion on this forum than you already have. A general academic discussion is okay. But if you start talking about specifics of chemistry or "how to" stuff, your posts, or possibly the entire thread, will be deleted.

Peartree said:

My personal understanding has always been that any discussion of liquid fuels should be only academic in nature. It might be nice to know a little bit about why the professionals make the choices that they make but liquid fuels are too expensive and too dangerous for ordinary people to screw around with. I'm happy to watch, on television or on the internet, from FAR away (and maybe see a "live" launch someday from several miles away) but I'm too fond of ordinary things like... skin... and breathing... to even think about playing with those things myself.

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I think you're being a little dramatic.

We all handle and use liquid fuels every day: gas up your car, lawnmower, etc. We even handle them under pressure: turn on your gas stove, or your propane grill. Some people even handle kerosene for their truck, or a heater. All unlicensed and without training. In addition to those, welders also handle highly pressurized gasses, including oxidizers, with minimal training.

It isn't the liquid fuel, but the liquid oxidizer that is most dangerous, especially when combined in close proximity with liquid fuel.

In NFPA/NAR/TRA rocketry (non amateur), we may use nitrous oxide hybrid motors. It is a dangerous oxidizers with typically misunderstood modes of detonation. Be more afraid of NOX than LOX.

Liquid fueled rockets are outside of what the NAR and TRA because: it is complicated & expensive to design, build, test, and operate compared to solid propellant motors; and there are no well-defined regulations like there are for hobby rocketry, which allows for low-cost insurance and local permission.

Being super-paranoid about liquid motors should not infer we should be complacent about handling (and building) solid propellant motors. You have to know what you're doing in both cases.

For academic discussion purposes, I posted links to two standard books in a message above. Another standard book is Huzel and Huang.

Well, with one exception. We are allowed Methyl or Ethyl alcohol with Nitrous Oxide. Google Tribrid.

Gerald

G_T said:

Well, with one exception. We are allowed Methyl or Ethyl alcohol with Nitrous Oxide. Google Tribrid.

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Not in general. Tribrids, Alcohol-NOX, etc., requires TRA BOD permission. Special case for an advanced team, well documented. You won't see anything but standard hybrids at local launches.

[U]https://www.tripoli.org/SafetyCode[/U]

5.2.1. With the exception of nitrous-oxide hybrid rocket motors, liquid rocket motors are
generally prohibited at Tripoli Research Launches. BOD approval may be given for very
well documented liquid motor projects. All such projects must be submitted to the TRC
for review and recommendation to the BOD

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Pound for pound, you can't beat antimatter!!!

jsdemar said:

Not in general. Tribrids, Alcohol-NOX, etc., requires TRA BOD permission. Special case for an advanced team, well documented. You won't see anything but standard hybrids at local launches.

[U]https://www.tripoli.org/SafetyCode[/U]

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For several projects at BALLS the Tripoli BoD approved H2O2 alcohol liquid motor and a LOX hybrid.
Have a good safety plan and there is a good chance of BoD approval, at Black Rock.

M