1:22 Scale SA-5 Saturn I

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grandcross

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This is the start of what could be a very long thread :)

Many of you followed my Saturn IB thread here https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?135578-Another-Saturn-IB While this is still not yet what I would consider complete, it is sitting in a storage locker in Canada while I'm currently in south east Asia awaiting a work visa for Australia. I'm suffering from serious rocket withdrawal! So it's time to plan my next build, the SA-5 Saturn I.

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This will incorporate a lot of what I did for the IB in terms of designs and techniques, and hopefully lessons learned. This is just planning right now, with the build starting when I get to Oz. Maybe a flight for Thunda Down Unda? We'll see...

At this point, I'm just collecting reference data to start my build. I'll list what I have here and I hope some of you can point me in the direction of juicier stuff...

The best source (albeit minimal) I've found is https://meatballrocketry.com/saturn-i-data/ It has a link to download Peter Alway's drawing of the S-I. Unfortunately it contains enough information to show you a number of details without giving enough information to recreate them. Le sigh.

Some other links of varying usefulness are:
https://www.alternatewars.com/SpaceRace/Saturn/Saturn.htm
https://heroicrelics.org/space-race.html
https://www.apollosaturn.com/Website-II/Saturn-I/The-Saturn-I-

So what am I missing? It seems that other than pictures, there isn't a lot of info out there in the Saturn I. Please help!
 
Josh is the expert reference on building this version, at least in his preferred scale. So you got the good link on that one.

How did your RTF all up weight come out on the 1B ?
 
Josh is the expert reference on building this version, at least in his preferred scale. So you got the good link on that one.

How did your RTF all up weight come out on the 1B ?

If memory serves me correctly, it was about 54 pounds. About 12 of that is nose weight :)
 
Nice choice! I love this version of the Saturn, as a matter of fact I am just about to start building a static version of this from Real Space Models https://www.realspacemodels.com/shop-galapagos/saturn-1-block-2-sa-5?category=1/144+kit

I ordered this right after you posted and had it shipped to a friends place. I'm back in the US for a couple of weeks, so I finally got my hands on it! This will be my build until I get a true rocket shop established. For research purposes of course! :)

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I ordered this right after you posted and had it shipped to a friends place. I'm back in the US for a couple of weeks, so I finally got my hands on it! This will be my build until I get a true rocket shop established. For research purposes of course! :)

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Based on your first flight of the big Saturn 1B...anything you would do different?
 
Based on your first flight of the big Saturn 1B...anything you would do different?

Absolutely. One thing is the placement of my clustering electronics. I'll put a hatch and bay in one of the tanks instead of the top of the lower airframe. It gets it out of the way and protected. I had problems with the switches and what not on my continuity checker, and that probably contributed to one of the cluster motors failing to light.

I also need to rethink the whole mating system for the lower portion. That proved especially problematic for the IB. I've got some ideas but haven't settled on anything specific yet.

For the upper airframe, I'm thinking fiberglass molds instead of just rolling the airframe around a tube. The glass on the upper section was far too flimsy for my liking. In my defense, it was my first home made fiberglass tube, and I should have used a few more layers. Using a mold approach, I can 3D print the master, and have some details molded in. Maybe? I don't know so I'll do some tests first. I may do the same for the fin can, although I did like the rolled carbon fiber. And I'll iron my peel ply first!

For the details, I'm not sure if I'll go with the 3D plastic as is. I don't like the way the CA glue works. Keeping pieces on the rocket is a struggle. There are some epoxy baths for making the pieces tougher, that may allow me to use epoxy instead. Or I can use them to create resin parts. I'm not sure. I'm just not happy with CA's poor reliability. Suggestions welcomed.

I used silicon wire for the shaped charges on the tank. They looked great when first applied, but stretched and became loose over time. I'll use a different type of wire for those details. And I'll use more styrene for other details like hatches. The paper ones I tried didn't like the paint.

Honestly, I learned so much building the IB that I can't help but do almost everything differently. Which is why it was so much fun! Of course, if I were staying in North America, I'd fix the IB first, but that's not in the cards at the moment.

I liked the mailer tubes. I liked the fins. My lower airframe in general came out almost perfect. The 3D printed capsule looked great. So yes, I'll do a lot the same too :D
 
I ordered this right after you posted and had it shipped to a friends place. I'm back in the US for a couple of weeks, so I finally got my hands on it! This will be my build until I get a true rocket shop established. For research purposes of course! :)

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I am also out of building until my rocket shop gets re-organized. I decided to build shelving, storage, and benches but I have to move stuff around within the shop to accomplish this so it is such a mess that it's still non-functional.

When you build yours please don't hesitate to post pics and tips. I have built many static models but it was many years ago and I have never built anything that uses this resin so I am not sure what I am going to use for glue and fillers.
 
By request, I'll add the build of the resin model. This is my first resin model, and its been years since I've built a static display model. I'm also rediscovering why I like large BFR builds - very fat fingers! But, here goes...

First the unboxing and dry fit.

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They look like a plastic model kit, but nope. Still, parts will need trimming.

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Fuel and oxidizer tanks are brass tubes. They also need trimming as they're slightly oversized. More on that later.

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The instructions are minimal, but it's a fairly simple rocket. One oddity I noticed is that in several places, the instructions say to trim the shaded areas, but there are no shaded areas.

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Getting parts lined up with the actual rocket will prove a challenge if not careful. For example, in this section, it shows an alignment notch on the tank cap. This is used to align the upper stage, but it's not obvious how it aligns with the lower stage. You'll have to look at the drawings very carefully. External references like the Alway drawings will also prove helpful.
 
Dry fit time to see what it will look like. Pretty cool I'd say!

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Considering the time I put in to the Saturn IB fin can, this is much easier! The base is in two sections, and the central tank is also resin. This is heavy!

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The upper stage is three sections if you include the cap for the tanks.


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The cap for the tanks assumes all the tanks are the same length so they can fit into place. The brass tubes as shipped are a little longer that the central resin tank so you'll need to do some trimming. That's why I don't have an image of the upper and lower stages stacked... they just fall over. I can see this part being quite tricky when it comes time for final assembly.
 
Build supplies here in Thailand is proving a bit of a challenge. Any hobby stores are in Bangkok which is about an 8 hour drive away. Ordering online isn't really an option for a few reasons, including my inability to read Thai. A trip to the local version of Home Depot got me most of the stuff I need.

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Apparently, Xacto knives are impossible to find in Thailand. But for this build a small cutter will work fine.

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Finishing supplies are available, but with none of the known brands so this may be interesting. Sandpaper grades are also numbered differently. (1,2,3,... etc) CA glue was readily available, but I have no idea about the properties. Luckily resin isn't as sensitive to heat as styrene as the one I selected is quite exothermic. For trimming the brass, I'd normally use a dremel, but here I just purchased a flat file.

I forgot to get primer, but that may prove tricky getting a sandable one. Also, I'll need a filler of some sort as you'll see later. The ones suggested online just aren't available here.

Shopping was definitely a challenge. My fiance's English skills are great, but not for anything remotely technical like tools. Of course my Thai skills are still in the beginner category. Googling the item on my cell phone and showing an image of what I was looking for proved most effective.
 
On to the build. This is a couple of weeks of work due to work commitments, so as you can see I'm doing it very slowly. Don't expect finished images for a while.

One of the first issues I encountered was with the CA glue. I was working in the evening and the overhead lighting just wasn't up to the task. As I was gluing the first part, my fingers started getting warm as the CA glue poured down my hands. I just wasn't able to see the glue flowing in the low light. So, quickly unstick my fingers before it sets, and set the kit aside until I can work in daylight.

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First up was fixing a problem with the engine skirt. I believe this was fine when I was in the US and got damaged as I brought it here to Thailand. This is where I discovered just how fat (and sticky) my fingers were. Tweezers would have helped immensely, but the kit doesn't really have fine details so I hadn't thought to get any. I would not say my repair job was very good.

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The fin can went together fairly well. The base comes in two sections that needed to be attached, but getting the parts liked up is tricky. There are notches for the fins that need to align with the spaces between the stringers on the lower part. Getting those two circles lined up is harder than you'd think. Use a slower curing CA so you have some working time. The fins will need to be separated from the sprues and trimmed. Dry fit each part first, as the tabs don't always fit perfectly into the notched. And keep your fingers out of the glue!

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As you can see, I ruched the assembly of the upper and lower pieces. I should have trimmed more to avoid the gap between the parts. But if you look close you'll also see the fins aren't a perfect fit. They will need some fill, although the products recommended online just aren't available here in Thailand. I'll have to be creative.

I also built the pieces so far a little out of sequence from the instructions. Parts are going to have to be masked and painted before final assembly, so I'm trying to sequence with that in mind. The directions call for installing the nozzles first, and for painting the tanks before assembly leaving final finishing to the end. I think that could make painting more difficult. So I built the fin can which I'll mask for the black and white. The tanks will be painted and masked for the black fuel tanks. The upper stage will be painted. The nozzles will be painted red. And then I'll assemble.

That's where it sits now. I've got to file the brass tubes to length, and then figure out my filler and primer solutions before proceeding. Watch this space!

And yeah, this thing is HEAVY!
 
I think I found the solution to my filler problem. CA and baby powder! I'll let you know how it works out...

[video=youtube;NA2XJ7PTT3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA2XJ7PTT3M[/video]
 
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