Newbie Question: Painting the Transsonic II + RF Tracking

I'm in the process of building the Hawk Mountain Transonic II 54mm kit. It's a fiberglass kit that utilizes an Acme Fin Can (one piece fiberglass). My plan is to paint the rocket a bright Metallic Red Color to aid in recovery. The nose cone and fin can, I would like to paint gloss black to contrast with the main body.

Would it be better to epoxy the fin can first, and then tape it off using painter's tape to paint? Or should I paint the fin can first, and install it on the rocket after the paint has dried?

Also, a tracker will be important with this rocket. My plan is to fly a Big Red Bee (432 MHz) tracker. Does anyone know if the Duplicolor MS300 Metal Specks Retro Red color will cause problems for the RF? The label describes the paint as being quote "Metal Specks Speciality Coating. Heavy metallic finish. Ideal for automotive and accessories."

Grateful for the advice.

I would expect it to interfere. Metallics are a bad choice if you want RF transparency.

Some other common colors also interfere. Take a sheet of cardboard, paint heavily, and test. I found a yellow I used greatly attenuated a tracker signal.

Gerald

Gerald,

Thank you for sharing that information. I may chose a non-metallic finish for this rocket, and save the retro-red for something that isn't going to go out of sight. I'll test my tracker inside a small cardboard box, and then paint that box heavily with paint color and see how the signal level changes. Fortunately, I have everything needed to test it properly. Extra class ham (N1LF)

Any suggested paint colors based on good RF transparency and visibility? This is a minimum diameter 54mm going up on a small J-motor. I don't expect to see it very long!

I would epoxy the fincan first, so that you can fillet the gap front and back of the fincan where it meets the body tube.

Ah, good point. I had planned on doing a filet at the top. But it had never occurred to me that I should do one at the back as well. Solid advice Dragon.

With that size of a rocket, just epoxy it, prime, paint the lighter color as the base, let it cure (patience), and then mask for the 2nd color.

Masking is pretty easy until the airframes get to the BT-60 range and below.

lowga said:

I'm in the process of building the Hawk Mountain Transonic II 54mm kit. It's a fiberglass kit that utilizes an Acme Fin Can (one piece fiberglass). My plan is to paint the rocket a bright Metallic Red Color to aid in recovery. The nose cone and fin can, I would like to paint gloss black to contrast with the main body.

Would it be better to epoxy the fin can first, and then tape it off using painter's tape to paint? Or should I paint the fin can first, and install it on the rocket after the paint has dried?

Also, a tracker will be important with this rocket. My plan is to fly a Big Red Bee (432 MHz) tracker. Does anyone know if the Duplicolor MS300 Metal Specks Retro Red color will cause problems for the RF? The label describes the paint as being quote "Metal Specks Speciality Coating. Heavy metallic finish. Ideal for automotive and accessories."

Grateful for the advice.

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I did a 16mw, 70cm Beeline GPS in two rockets and lost one of them (deployment failure) and luckily the higher flying one to 10k came down within sight. The rattle can Dutch Boy "metallic" colors are excellent attenuators on 70cm.

If I absolutely had to do "metallic" on a rocket I'd test spray a container and do a range test with the tracker inside of it. Otherwise, stay away from graphite and metallic paints. Kurt

Kurt--thanks. It was actually your post on the Marco Polo thread that sparked my concern. What color would you recommend for a 54mm minimum diameter rocket? The simulations are putting this thing over 5,000 feet on s small J. I want the best chance at this old eyes picking it up during recovery.

lowga said:

Ah, good point. I had planned on doing a filet at the top. But it had never occurred to me that I should do one at the back as well. Solid advice Dragon.

Click to expand...

You probably don't need one at the back since the motor retainer will be there. You do want to dremel out enough material so the Aeropack will slot into the fin can the correct distance so there is little to no gap when a motor is installed with the threaded retainer in place.

I am getting around the whole paint issue on mine by....not painting it.... haha. Actually I probably will after the first flight.

lowga said:

Gerald,

Thank you for sharing that information. I may chose a non-metallic finish for this rocket, and save the retro-red for something that isn't going to go out of sight. I'll test my tracker inside a small cardboard box, and then paint that box heavily with paint color and see how the signal level changes. Fortunately, I have everything needed to test it properly. Extra class ham (N1LF)

Any suggested paint colors based on good RF transparency and visibility? This is a minimum diameter 54mm going up on a small J-motor. I don't expect to see it very long!

Click to expand...

Any non-metallic based spray paint should work. I mean if you use a nose mounted tracker, just the nosecone needs to be non-metallic. I had a beautiful Wildman Jr. I just completed with a metallic red paint just before I had my two failures.
The Beeline GPS rides in the ebay with the antenna sticking up through a form fitted hole into the main chute tube. I put a duct tape wrapped cardboard stent over the wire antenna so it keeps it from getting "smushed". I belatedly stripped the
immaculate metallic red off the upper bay, prepped, primed and sprayed a plain non-metallic yellow. 14 flights and still going strong. I think I saw only one flight under the chute. Goes between 5 - 7k. (Need a bigger motor!!)

Since the thing is DD I buy the longest delay I can fit in the motor so I can see smoke for as long as possible. Then, the rocket disappears. We couldn't see it out at a half mile coming in one time and when I got to it, it looked perfectly fine with the
apogee and main chutes stretched out on the ground. You should be prepared for a totally sight unseen flight profile as insurance. Paint color? Anything you use is going to disappear at altitude so I would try and shoot for something that would
contrast well with your ground vegetation. Paint it camoflage and you'll have trouble finding it on the ground! So, I'd go with something that would improve your chances seeing it on the ground. Fluorescent paints as long as they're not metalflake
I found to work fine for me.

RDF and one thing I've thought of but never tried using is a handheld GPS with a "Sight n' Go" feature as Garmin calls it. "Sight n' Go" is you point the GPS, push a button and it locks the bearing in. Gives one an arrow datum line to follow on the
last known bearing. Yeah, not needed if you catch sight of your rocket and can lock a bearing with your Yagi on its descent. If your rocket is totally sight unseen, you can use the (Garmin) mapping GPS to lock in the bearing parallel to your Yagi when loss of signal occurs and gives something to follow to get to the ground footprint of your tracker so you can home in and get it.

I'll wear a Garmin Vista HCX around my neck for that purpose. I lost my sight bearing on a rocket and started a search sweep. Took me awhile to get far enough out but I espied the parachute flapping in the breeze quite a distance away on the otherside
of a very deep drainage ditch. Rocket was nicely caught in some corn stubble in a no-till field so it wasn't moving. I did a "Sight n' Go" bearing from where I was standing and had to walk 1/4 mile to the west before I could crossover. The GPS kept my
bearing "to" locked and even though I had to deviate, it pointed the way and took me in even though I had to come in from a different direction. The rocket didn't have an Rf tracker on it. So one can get some good use out of a mapping GPS with this
feature for other things "rocketry". Kurt KC9LDH

Kurt---all great advice. I'm going to fly a loud sonic beeper in the recovery harness as well as an aid to finding it on the ground. Fortunately vegetation is very low this time of year--if I can keep it away from the trees. I'm flying a Jolly Logic Chute Release, so I'm letting it drop on a 18" drogue chute, and then deploy the main 30" chute at 300 feet. Fingers crossed!

lowga said:

Kurt---all great advice. I'm going to fly a loud sonic beeper in the recovery harness as well as an aid to finding it on the ground. Fortunately vegetation is very low this time of year--if I can keep it away from the trees. I'm flying a Jolly Logic Chute Release, so I'm letting it drop on a 18" drogue chute, and then deploy the main 30" chute at 300 feet. Fingers crossed!

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Another thing to consider, especially with these 900Mhz trackers is if you drop it in real low and blow at 300 feet, if the rocket is far enough out, you might have a LOS sooner rather than later relatively. 70cm trackers will give you an edge with better propagation though. Plus you have to pray the chute opens in time. If not, either you have a scuffed up rocket or the GPS receive antenna snaps off the board If you don't affix the antenna on with J&B. Now I know you're doing RDF here but if you have the rocket blow down low, chute fouls, one has problems. Fine fun for modroc or medium power. More time for chute deployment is helpful I think.

If your project has the potential to be totally sight unseen, You might want to consider blowing the main chute a bit higher so you can have more time to get a bearing fix and develop a drift pattern. Rf trackers work better if you have altitude for propagation's sake and more time to figure out what's going
on, on descent.

Say you blow the main up higher, the rocket is not seen and your Yagi is pointing east. If the wind is carrying the rocket south, which you will notice as you will have to gradually move your Yagi towards the south to maintain the maximum, You've established a one dimensional drift pattern. Once LOS occurs, lock in the direction and proceed towards the rocket.
Since the drift pattern was to the south, you'll want to sometimes point the Yagi off your last bearing towards the south in case the rocket drifted a bit further in that direction when the LOS occurred. Here's where a properly functioning GPS tracker has an edge. One has a lat/long and sometimes an altitude at the last known position.
Proceed to that position and if the rocket isn't there, one is within the ground footprint to either pick up the Rf or if the GPS has a good fix, receive the final resting place position. Done.

People rant and rave about this tracker didn't work or that tracker didn't work and I bet it was due to 1. Battery or power failure. 2. Deployment failure
of any kind or 3. Going completely outside of the tracking capabilities of the system (ie. using a 900Mhz RDF system, not GPS, out on the playa with
a rocket that's going 30,000 feet. 4. Using a flight profile that doesn't fit the tracker. That would be having a totally sight unseen flight that is going to be
travelling a long distance away and blowing the main down too low so one doesn't have the time to develop a drift pattern. This stuff can happen very quickly.

Remember, if one can see the rocket coming in under main that trumps everything! As long as it's accessible, you'll find it no matter if you're using
RDF, GPS, sonic screamer or whathaveyou. Walk the bearing to the the last known sighting and you will find it. Rf will make it easier and
more reassuring.

Chute, I've recovered modrocs in chest high grass (I did luck out a bit as the metallized streamers stayed on top) by sighting with a "Sight n' Go" feature on a GPS and "walked the line", eventually coming upon the rockets! Best of luck, Kurt