HPR 5 engine cluster request

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Performance nut

Performance nut

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Does anyone know of a 5 engine cluster rocket that is more for mid-high power (F-I range)? Would like something that I can build to test cluster concepts on before building a much more sophisticated custom cluster build. I have no problems going down the scratch build route; however, kits tend to cost less and I'm looking for an easy project since the one that follows will be rather difficult.

If 5 engine clusters don't exist, maybe someone can make a recommendation. What I want to do is test several concepts:
  1. Firing multiple engines at once (never done a composite motor cluster)
  2. Simulate an engine not firing.
  3. Test engine combinations for effect

Item #1 and #3 are easy to do with any cluster. Item #2 is of particular interest. I have simulated this on RockSim a few times but I rather not just simulate this. I have seen plenty of cluster rockets launch with an engine failure and have no issues and I've seen clusters with an engine failure that ended with less than optimal results. Like to prove the design before moving on to the challenging project. 5 same size engines (configured in the classic + pattern) canted towards the Cg is what I intend on using. A central engine failure doesn't have me worried, dead weight going up for the ride. An outer engine failure engine is what I'd like to make sure I have covered. With that said, I have seen 4 engine clusters in box arrangement. That seems close enough for my purposes so long as the engines are canted. Does this seem reasonable?
 
I had LOC cut four 29mm and one 54mm motor mounts in a 7.5" Warlock kit. I plan to use it to learn how to do air-starts.
 
Performance nut said:
Does anyone know of a 5 engine cluster rocket that is more for mid-high power (F-I range)? Would like something that I can build to test cluster concepts on before building a much more sophisticated custom cluster build. I have no problems going down the scratch build route; however, kits tend to cost less and I'm looking for an easy project since the one that follows will be rather difficult.

If 5 engine clusters don't exist, maybe someone can make a recommendation. What I want to do is test several concepts:
  1. Firing multiple engines at once (never done a composite motor cluster)
  2. Simulate an engine not firing.
  3. Test engine combinations for effect

Item #1 and #3 are easy to do with any cluster. Item #2 is of particular interest. I have simulated this on RockSim a few times but I rather not just simulate this. I have seen plenty of cluster rockets launch with an engine failure and have no issues and I've seen clusters with an engine failure that ended with less than optimal results. Like to prove the design before moving on to the challenging project. 5 same size engines (configured in the classic + pattern) canted towards the Cg is what I intend on using. A central engine failure doesn't have me worried, dead weight going up for the ride. An outer engine failure engine is what I'd like to make sure I have covered. With that said, I have seen 4 engine clusters in box arrangement. That seems close enough for my purposes so long as the engines are canted. Does this seem reasonable?
Click to expand...

Four 29's around a fifth with a 4in body is about the minimum config.

If you go 4box you'll get radically different results. Adding vectors is fairly straightforward.
 
djkingsley said:
I had LOC cut four 29mm and one 54mm motor mounts in a 7.5" Warlock kit. I plan to use it to learn how to do air-starts.
Click to expand...

How much did he charge you? Was thinking of doing something similar with one of his kits. He practically makes everything needed to do my project, just don't like the idea of buying duplicate parts.

dhbarr said:
Four 29's around a fifth with a 4in body is about the minimum config.

If you go 4box you'll get radically different results. Adding vectors is fairly straightforward.
Click to expand...

I figured the 4box would be different, just wanted to confirm. Thank you!
 
Here's what you asked for!

Got 7 29mm mounts in a 4in airframe.
You can easily just use 5 [as you wanted] 3 across & another 2.
After you/re done fooling around, load the whole thing up and go for it.

Use Estes 29 BP motors or even adaptors to 24mm and those size BP motors.
Or mix 24 & 29 BP and AP motors.

LOC Ultimate, they brought back some oldies but goodies under the "Retro" section.

https://www.locprecision.com/product/pk-66-ultimate/

Edit: while looking it up and posting....Mikey beat me to it....
 
MikeyDSlagle said:
How about LOC ultimate
4" airframe, 7x 29mmt

https://www.locprecision.com/product/pk-66-ultimate/
Click to expand...

blackjack2564 said:
Here's what you asked for!

Got 7 29mm mounts in a 4in airframe.
You can easily just use 5 [as you wanted] 3 across & another 2.
After you/re done fooling around, load the whole thing up and go for it.

Use Estes 29 BP motors or even adaptors to 24mm and those size BP motors.
Or mix 24 & 29 BP and AP motors.

LOC Ultimate, they brought back some oldies but goodies under the "Retro" section.

https://www.locprecision.com/product/pk-66-ultimate/

Edit: while looking it up and posting....Mikey beat me to it....
Click to expand...

Great minds. lol

LOC's Ultimate was something I was considering since it is light and handles up to a G (right inside my impulse range). Price point is good as well.

Only problem is LOC doesn't recommend using 5 engines in this for some reason. They recommend 1, 3, 4, or 7. Not sure why that would be a problem though. They aren't answering their phones so I couldn't ask if that was an oversight or intentional.

I'm also curious about the custom work that was mentioned already. Big Cleatus with a 5 engine cluster sounds pretty awesome. Might need some nose weight but it looks like LOC has a solution for that now as well.
 
Performance nut said:
How much did he charge you? Was thinking of doing something similar with one of his kits. He practically makes everything needed to do my project, just don't like the idea of buying duplicate parts.
Click to expand...

I think it was just the extra cost of the motor tubes, maybe a few dollars more. He shipped it out the same day I ordered it. There were no duplicate parts, he only included the motor tubes and centering rings needed to build the kit the way I wanted.
 
LOC will make almost anything you want custom. Want 5 holes, not 7? I'm sure they will make it for you.
 
Loc used to make the heavy duty beauty. 1 29mm and 4 24mm. 5 29mm will work to. Just a tighter fit.
 
I made a copy of a PML Ultimate Endeavor using 4 fins, instead or 3 and FG tubing.
4- 38mm , 29mm for timers and a central 54mm, they all fit in a 6" tube.
Madcow or PML can make whatever you want, LOC doesn'thave 6" tubing as far as I know.
 
Last edited:
Performance nut said:
3 TTW fins on a 5 engine cluster... interesting.
Click to expand...

Not as interesting as you would think. The fins were only tabbed through the body tube, didn’t go down to the motor. I had one and the fins lasted one flight. Should have glassed it.

I always planned on rebuilding it with a central 29mm and three 29mm outboards and real honest to goodness through the wall fins. I think that would be a better all around kit anyway. Fly it on a single when you feel cheap, load her up for LDRS flights.

I have been kicking around the idea of modifying my Minnie Magg as of late to make it a 3X29. My kit has the fin lock thing so it would be a matter of carefully knocking out the centering rings and installing new rings and motor tubes. Should be easy. Love clusters but they have a way of making you think of weird crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
cavecentral said:
Loc used to make the heavy duty beauty. 1 29mm and 4 24mm. 5 29mm will work to. Just a tighter fit.
Click to expand...

I just bought a Heavy Duty Beauty last year, so they're still (or again) available...
As with all my kits, it's still in the bag until it earns the right to be set free... :eyeroll:
 
Thanks everyone for pointing me towards LOC. They were a huge help. The rocket will be something rather awesome I think, build post likely to come soon. Teaser pic of the upper baffle:
Ultimate Buzz baffle top.jpg
 
Ok so you can't just post something that says Ultimate Buzz and just expect us to be patient! I get the feeling this will be my favorite build in quite a while :wink:
 
viciouspeanut said:
Ok so you can't just post something that says Ultimate Buzz and just expect us to be patient! I get the feeling this will be my favorite build in quite a while :wink:
Click to expand...

I have a feeling this won't help :D Mock up that LOC literally just sent me.
Ultimate Buzz mock up.jpg
 
viciouspeanut said:
Indeed it does not! Is it the full 7x29mm mount like the Ultimate? What kind of cluster combos are you think about?
Click to expand...

This is a 5 x 29mm 4" rocket. Modified Mystic Buzz with 4 fins versus 3. Also made the split fin with one continuous fin tab. The cut was perfectly flush with the body, just enough material to sand it down to match curvature of the tube.

DMS G80T looks like what its maiden voyage will be on but I eventually want to put some white lightning and metalstorm in it. 5 white lighting should be at rather awesome flame and 5 metalstorms should be rather awesome to watch. There are some small H's that keep it within J range which is probably the biggest I'll launch this on. Want to keep it under mach. This is for effect and testing more than speed and altitude records. :)
 
Performance nut said:
DMS G80T looks like what its maiden voyage will be on but I eventually want to put some white lightning and metalstorm in it. 5 white lighting should be at rather awesome flame and 5 metalstorms should be rather awesome to watch. There are some small H's that keep it within J range which is probably the biggest I'll launch this on. Want to keep it under mach. This is for effect and testing more than speed and altitude records. :)
Click to expand...

5 metalstorms would be awesome! Or one Skidmark flanked by metalstorms! I want a 29mm cluster rocket bad, but I have to plan single motor flights enough due to motor costs so 5 would be a little much for me right now.
 

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