R/C Newbie question

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I see a few r/c b/g kits out there, but I'm wondering if there is a r/c b/a kit? ( radio controlled boost AIRPLANE). That is, rocket boost and powered flight and return. Don't see any kits, wondering if that's because it's not possible for some reason? Don't know if this is a dumb question, but humor me. Thanks.
 
I see a few r/c b/g kits out there, but I'm wondering if there is a r/c b/a kit? ( radio controlled boost AIRPLANE). That is, rocket boost and powered flight and return. Don't see any kits, wondering if that's because it's not possible for some reason? Don't know if this is a dumb question, but humor me. Thanks.

Not uncommon. Most are scratch built or a conversion.

Rocket conversion of the 163 is about halfway down the first link.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2361008-Durafly-Me-163-Komet-Review

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/durafly-me-163-komet-950mm-pnf-red.html#

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?130439-Giant-R-C-Me163-Formation-Flight-(video)
 
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Titan II,

Thanks for the interesting links. I know Klima had an Me 163 kit a while back. Those jet powered Komets look awesome. Maybe one day I'll get into R/C jets, but right now they're out of my budget. Do you know of anything that launches vertically, like the Dynasoar kits, but returns under power?
 
Titan II,

Thanks for the interesting links. I know Klima had an Me 163 kit a while back. Those jet powered Komets look awesome. Maybe one day I'll get into R/C jets, but right now they're out of my budget. Do you know of anything that launches vertically, like the Dynasoar kits, but returns under power?

I am not aware of any complete kits, and think you would have to do a scratch or modify something already available. If you have RC experience with electrics it would not be too difficult. Based on some of my projects, I highly recommend a folding propeller if you are going to launch it with the rocket motor and then move to electric. Have fun.
 
Well, the problem is TIME. And WEIGHT. And Drag. Just call it "physics".

OK, so you want to go up like a rocket, then fly around for a while. Sounds cool. Here are the issues:

ROCKET MOTOR POWER: Issues of time and speed.
With models like those at Dynasoar, you DO have control while the rocket glider is going up. But you have power for less than 10 seconds. The speed is so great while the motor is burning that controlling the model is VERY DIFFICULT.

ELECTRIC JET (Electric Ducted Fan): Issues of weight and airflow.
Several of the foam EDF jets (see MotionRC) look like good candidates for adding a rocket motor. But these foam jets require a lot of power, and have batteries that are relatively heavy. So, your rocket motor will be less effective.

There is also the issue of THRUST LINE. The EDF jets suck in air, and push OUT air, in a manner similar to a real jet. So, putting the rocket motor in the 'tail pipe' affects the flow of exhaust air, and thus the ability of the motor to propel the model.

You could try putting the rocket motor off to the side, or work out a way to eject the motor. As you can see, it gets complicated.... :eyeroll:

STANDARD PROPELLER: Drag, man.....
A typical propeller causes a lot of drag, if it is not the source of "pulling you forward".

THE ANSWER: A FOLDING propeller on a profile jet model. Maybe.....
-
 
So, here is a HobbyKing foam board model of a Su-27: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/su-27-5mm-pp-kit.html

It is designed for an electric motor and prop, about halfway down the fuselage. MAYBE you could have a rocket motor at the back, that popped out at the ejection charge (do help get the model properly balanced for flight). A challenge to get balanced correctly.

Maybe.......
 
Any of these are not for a newbie.

Try JH aerospace, they sell some micro equipment balsa kits that are hands off boost, also northcoast has a kit out there too.

Really you just need RC experience, get a micro radian or radian or any of the other good trainer rc motor gliders and get stick time, models like i make are not hard to pilot on boost, but aren't hands off, you have to get some flight time first. These hands off kits are great, but there isn't any magic, you shouldn't really be learning to fly rc on a rocket glider, do it on something you can power up and get out of trouble, then transition to rocket glider. If that is where you are at then the JH or northcoast kits are good.

Frank
 
Any of these are not for a newbie.

Try JH aerospace, they sell some micro equipment balsa kits that are hands off boost, also northcoast has a kit out there too.

Really you just need RC experience, get a micro radian or radian or any of the other good trainer rc motor gliders and get stick time, models like i make are not hard to pilot on boost, but aren't hands off, you have to get some flight time first. These hands off kits are great, but there isn't any magic, you shouldn't really be learning to fly rc on a rocket glider, do it on something you can power up and get out of trouble, then transition to rocket glider. If that is where you are at then the JH or northcoast kits are good.

Frank


Both North Coast and JH Aerospace have kits that are r/c boost gliders. I was looking for a r/c boost airplane, with powered return. I intend to get some stick time, already have a little with the simpler r/c planes. Looks like no one is making a kit like this, seems like a niche waiting to be filled. I would rather have ten minutes of yippees and woohoos rather than one or two. Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. After getting more flight experience I may just have to build one from scratch.
 
You can easily get 10-15-20 or more minutes of post boost fun with a reasonably built D or E powered rocket glider. Shoot.. the NAR C RCRG record is almost 30min.

Might be a fun project, but the tradeoffs on boost height/stability make it something I doubt you'll see in a kit form. I have seen folks boos the little airhogs type RC planes as parasite gliders on a larger rocket, but those are more like falling with style rather than flying.

kj
 
The problem I see with a rocket boost then powered option, or an airplane with airstart is that you are carrying extra weight for boost, or for powered flight. The extra weight and drag of even a folding prop limits your rocket boost somewhat, an air start option is better, but again you need to carry the weight of the motor and ignition system. You have to consider CG shift as well, if you go with a tail mounted rocket you may need to fly with trim adjusted when flying under electric power. On my rc rg's I have an adapter which plugs into the tail which allows me to fly on electric, or I can pull it out and fly on rocket, but I don't do mixed for the reason above. The Komet is set up well for this, with a tail mounted rocket, nose mounted prop. it's definitely not a beginner airplane.
 
Parasites! Never thought about that. Maybe a micro, ultralightweight r/c plane on a booster rocket, with a folding prop to cut drag. Air start after release. Sounds workable. Any thoughts?
 
Kevin, I thought it was challenging to get max consistenly in the S8E gliders, or maybe I was reading a report at a meet where the conditions weren't great.....




You can easily get 10-15-20 or more minutes of post boost fun with a reasonably built D or E powered rocket glider. Shoot.. the NAR C RCRG record is almost 30min.




Might be a fun project, but the tradeoffs on boost height/stability make it something I doubt you'll see in a kit form. I have seen folks boos the little airhogs type RC planes as parasite gliders on a larger rocket, but those are more like falling with style rather than flying.

kj
 
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You can easily get 10-15-20 or more minutes of post boost fun with a reasonably built D or E powered rocket glider. Shoot.. the NAR C RCRG record is almost 30min.

Might be a fun project, but the tradeoffs on boost height/stability make it something I doubt you'll see in a kit form. I have seen folks boos the little airhogs type RC planes as parasite gliders on a larger rocket, but those are more like falling with style rather than flying.

kj

Do you any information on these designs? Would love to see them.
 
Kevin, I thought it was challenging to get max consistenly in the S8E gliders, or maybe I was reading a report at a meet where the conditions weren't great.....

I guess it depends on the event or the day- for S8E, the challenge is to make a 6 minute flight during a 12 minute window. So the air is what it is, and you don't get anything else for being long. I've seen rounds where sink wipes out 4-5 pilots, and I've had contests where I followed something that I thought was lift and ended up short. There have been times when I am just flying for fun I've had flights where I hook thermals and have flown so long that I lay on the ground to keep my neck from getting sore.

I was just pointing out that not all RCRG flights are 1-2 minutes without the ability to play around once the motor stops.

kj
 
Do you any information on these designs? Would love to see them.

Sure. You can read about the S8 event and get some thoughts from the US pilots at https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/fai-spacemodeling/fai-events-for-wsmc/s8-rc-rocket-glider/

Photos of Raven series models designed by Bob Parks- https://georgesrockets.com/GRP/GLIDERS/S8/Raven-9.htm

Here is a video of an S8E contest in Bulgaria. https://youtu.be/ZaiwO1J_XA0

One thing we are seeing more of recently is pilots using a DLG model that has been modified to have a motor pod. You can still build a very competitive model from scratch using vacuum bagged foam wings and carbon tube for the boom.

kj
 
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Sure. You can read about the S8 event and get some thoughts from the US pilots at https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/fai-spacemodeling/fai-events-for-wsmc/s8-rc-rocket-glider/

Photos of Raven series models designed by Bob Parks- https://georgesrockets.com/GRP/GLIDERS/S8/Raven-9.htm

Here is a video of an S8E contest in Bulgaria. https://youtu.be/ZaiwO1J_XA0

One thing we are seeing more of recently is pilots using a DLG model that has been modified to have a motor pod. You can still build a very competitive model from scratch using vacuum bagged foam wings and carbon tube for the boom.

kj

Thanks. Good info.
 
I am not aware of any complete kits, and think you would have to do a scratch or modify something already available. If you have RC experience with electrics it would not be too difficult. Based on some of my projects, I highly recommend a folding propeller if you are going to launch it with the rocket motor and then move to electric. Have fun.

Yo, Titan II,

After poking around I found another r/c electric/rocket hybrid kit: the Bearospace Industries Future Star. Twin pusher props, carrier release and air ignition of rocket motor. Both the Me Komet and Future Star only mention horizontal rocket ignition and flight, so I'm wondering if vertical ignition off a rod can be done. What do you think?




future star.png
 
The specs say that thing weighs 2lbs. You'd need a motor with a max impulse of 44N for "safe" vertical liftoff (2lbs x 4.4= 8.8 N x 5) so you're looking for something in the F range. Maybe something like an AT F20 would work. But you'd have to modify the plans (or short kit) to replace the 1-5 18mm motor mounts to a single 29mm mount. And you'd probably want to make it with a rear ejected moto mount to loose the mass in the tail.

kj
 
This is designed for 18mm motors, ganged somehow, I never saw the backend. You could most likely adapt it for larger motors, it's a 2# plane or so it quotes, so that will take most likely a G class motor to launch vertical and I'd use a rail not a rod, you'd need to see what your cg shift is for that setup to see if it's trimmable after burnout being a tail mounted design. A C motor is 24.2 grams, kit lists 5 total c motors possible, so 125 grams, propellent mass is 55 grams or so, a G-25 is 125 grams and 60 grams of propellent, so that is about a wash, and probably the minimum you'd need for a decent boost at that weight. Looks like Kevin was posting the same time I was with similar thoughts, I think F20 will be a bit weak. Ejecting the motor in the tail will make it more nose heavy, I'd think you'd want to keep it in the tail to reduce forward cg shift.

Frank




Yo, Titan II,

After poking around I found another r/c electric/rocket hybrid kit: the Bearospace Industries Future Star. Twin pusher props, carrier release and air ignition of rocket motor. Both the Me Komet and Future Star only mention horizontal rocket ignition and flight, so I'm wondering if vertical ignition off a rod can be done. What do you think?



View attachment 337867
 
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Yo, Titan II,

After poking around I found another r/c electric/rocket hybrid kit: the Bearospace Industries Future Star. Twin pusher props, carrier release and air ignition of rocket motor. Both the Me Komet and Future Star only mention horizontal rocket ignition and flight, so I'm wondering if vertical ignition off a rod can be done. What do you think?




View attachment 337867

Almost anything can be done, and I do not see why it could not be launched via a rail. I tend to agree with Frank regarding motor selection and keeping it with the aircraft after the burn. I did not read everything on the site, but it seems that although they mentioned multiple motors several times, it appeared they never did it. Looks like a fun project. Continue getting experience with a traditional plane as this would not be for a complete newbie.
 
OK, Thanks guys. Looks like there's room for experimentation here. I watched the build video for the Future Star, it's more complex than where I'm comfortable right now. Don't mind gluing and sanding balsa, or soldering and wiring electronics. But applying heat shrink monocote and using a heating iron and sock is new to me. Will work my way up to that. Cheers!
 
I've thought about building something like this for some time and I do have the basics put together for it, but the aircraft I really had intended for the task used bagged composite wings. I've drifted away from doing that because fussing with the chemicals and mess isn't much fun without a purpose-designed workshop. Laser cutting is much more self contained.

The J&H Carbonette 19 mentioned above is my creation. I do have plans to produce a powered version, and it might ultimately fit the bill, but there's a lot of work required to get it there in a satisfying manner. That said, you could get a Parkzone Vapor motor/gearbox and a UMX Radian folding prop and drill into the nose to mount that, run wires back to the control board, and you're there. The extra nose weight won't hurt...it's a really conservative design in that regard.

That said, I think you're underestimating the capabilities of these aircraft. The 19 will go to the edge of visibility on a C motor. We're currently estimating 3+ minutes on B6-4s in dead air. In buoyant conditions, it'll outlast the battery with ease, and that's a little micro glider. The Strix from Rocket Models in Moscow will fly for hours on a good day. You have to bear in mind that these S8 models are boosting to 1000+ ft which gives them the ability to fly 10+ minutes without thermal assistance. All you have to do to make the 6 minute max is stay out of sink. The rest of your score comes from getting the time exact and nailing the precision landing, both of which are considerably more difficult.

Bear in mind that these are precision R/C soaring machines. Their capabilities are beyond those of any R/C model you've flown yet. It's like trying to imagine improvements to a Ferrari when you've been driving a Yugo--try the Ferrari first because you might find it's fine as is. I've been there. The first time I flew a Snipe DLG clued me in to the fact that even my best electric sailplanes had ill prepared me for just how amazing these machines are. My maiden flight with the Carbonette 19 was a similar drill. You should watch that video of me cavorting all over the sky with mine. It was almost a 2 minute flight and I spent much of it doing loops and inverted silliness. That was without a launch piston or anything, and it was early in my test program. Now I'm seeing much longer flights, and I've got the side benefit that since it doubles as a DLG, I can spend a lot of time learning the airframe without burning fuel. Obviously a motor on the front would add that much more, but at some point it starts to look like overkill.
 
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