Buying black powder

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billdz

billdz

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I vaguely recall reading in this forum that, if you want to buy black powder, you should not say that you want it for rocketry. You should instead say you need it for some sort of gun use. Is that correct? If so, what are we supposed to say?
 
I'd be happy to buy from Bernie, too bad he's so far away from me. Mike W was going to sell me some Saturday but the launch may get canceled due to high winds. Brian does not sell it.
 
I am not telling you what to say, and I will deny it in a court of law. :grin:

FFFFg black powder is designed for muzzle-loading rifles. The NRA has lobbied for freedom of access to and possession of black powder for use in muzzle-loading rifles.

Any other use of black powder requires a LEUP and an explosives safe.

When I bought mine, no one asked me anything. I signed the book, paid and walked out.
 
billdz said:
I'd be happy to buy from Bernie, too bad he's so far away from me. Mike W was going to sell me some Saturday but the launch may get canceled due to high winds. Brian does not sell it.
Click to expand...

Did you try Tom Tweit at TTRA?
 
billdz said:
I vaguely recall reading in this forum that, if you want to buy black powder, you should not say that you want it for rocketry. You should instead say you need it for some sort of gun use. Is that correct? If so, what are we supposed to say?
Click to expand...

What makes you think that anyone is going to ask you anything, other than "how do you want to pay for that"?
And do make sure it's FFFF (4F) powder, not 3F, nor some other substitute.

Like others said, FFFFg is widely used for muzzle loading applications, big (cannons) and small (muskets).

a
 
afadeev said:
What makes you think that anyone is going to ask you anything, other than "how do you want to pay for that"?
And do make sure it's FFFF (4F) powder, not 3F, nor some other substitute.

Like others said, FFFFg is widely used for muzzle loading applications, big (cannons) and small (muskets).

a
Click to expand...

When I used to shoot BP revolvers, the gun shop I bought it from always asked “what ya shooting?”
And 3F works just as well as 4F.
 
Doubtful they will ask, but just tell em it's for your new muzzleloader. Fifty caliber, old school lead ball. You're about to pop your cherry. Flintlock or cap lock, in which case you already have the caps. :wink:

FFFFG (4F) is usually used for priming the flash pan on a flintlock because it is more energetic, and not in the firearm itself.

3F or FFFG works just fine.

I know we are not talking about cannons but big bores use big powder - FG or FFG. Don't put 4F in a cannon, you're asking for trouble. Only reason to use FFFFG in a cannon is for priming the touch-hole.
 
As a long time muzzle-loading firearms user, I figured to chime in here a bit.

First, several of my purchases have been on direct visit to Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN, a couple hour drive from my house. They sell all grades of black powder across the counter, but only stock Goex brand I believe. They are a major dealer of replica black powder firearms, and every time I visit I browse for quite a while. They have an online catalog as well.

I use 1.5 Fg Swiss powder only, in a 1874 Sharps buffalo rifle (cartridge) replica. 2Fg I use in 50 or 45 caliber rifle applications. 3Fg is used in my Colt revolver replicas (percussion cap) in mainly 44 caliber.

I do have 4Fg, and that is used as only a pan priming source in my flintlock firearms. Very sparingly used at perhaps 3 grains only to prime a pan.

So I have a few decades experience in the use of black powder (as well as Pyrodex which I use in a modern in-line muzzle-loader application). I also use 209 shotgun primers rather than percussion caps for the in-line.

At any rate, a few years ago I made a bulk order via Powder, Inc. of Arkansas that was delivered by UPS I believe. HazMat applied of course, and I had to make a minimum order of 5 lbs. They were the only supplier that was reasonable on the Swiss powder, which again is reserved only for the Sharps replica (my "holy grail" rifle) cartridges. If memory serves, I had to send a PDF scanned file of my drivers license, and sign a waiver of some sort, which was all done via email. Once all that is done, your name and information stay on file there for future orders.

I'll close here with an amusing incident. I was firing my Kentucky long-rifle replica at the gun range one day (I'm a member of a private club here), and a group of AR-15 blasters were watching me with great interest. When I fired perhaps my 5th round of the day, they screamed out "ARE YOU OK!!". I looked over calmly after the shot and said, "Sure, I'm fine.". They were exclaiming "We saw fire shoot out the side of that thing, and thought you had burned your face clear off!" At this point they walked over, and I explained how a flintlock works with the pan and frizzen, plus the flint and hammer. I had rapt attention that day for a few minutes. But one statement got me...when I finished my explanation of how the flintlock system works, one of the younger members of the group asked, "Gosh, when did they come up with that?!" (as if it was some new innovation). I said, "Oh, about 400 years ago".
 
Here's my one and only BP pistol. Haven't even had a chance to fire it yet.

.58 Caliber British Double Barrel Flintlock

I have ffg powder for it but still looking for the ffffg for the flashpan.
British Double Barrel Flintlock.jpgDouble-barrel-flintlock-pistol-top.jpg
 
timbucktoo said:
When I used to shoot BP revolvers, the gun shop I bought it from always asked “what ya shooting?”
And 3F works just as well as 4F.
Click to expand...

I would have had to say, "My wife." (Disclaimer: I love my wife and do not want to shoot her. I just think it would be a funny answer.)
 
To me this boils down to "if you have to ask" kinda thing. Also better to ask folks at a launch who are doing dual deploy in your area.
 
To all reading this:

Be careful how you go about obtaining Black powder at retail centers.
Don't screw it up for the rest of us by saying/doing something stupid!

My local Bass Pro now asks what you want 4 ffff for. [all others. 3fff-2ff don't seem to be an issue]
2 yrs ago some idiot tried to but 20lbs of BP. Red flags went up immediately.
when asked the moron said he was making pipe bombs.
They stalled him till FBI got there. He's now in Git Mo bay.
Bass Pro sent notice to all store to inquire about usage!

A simple " I need it for my frizzen pan" for my flintlock pistol will solve the issue. If you don't think you can handle questions then:
"I'm buying it as a birthday present, for my cousin who has a flintlock" suffices.
 
blackjack2564 said:
To all reading this:

Be careful how you go about obtaining Black powder at retail centers.
Don't screw it up for the rest of us by saying/doing something stupid!
Click to expand...

I only say and do stupid things on forums. I'm pretty timid in real life. If they do ask me next time, I'll tell them my dad left me a flintlock when he died. Or, better yet, get in on an Internet group buy with some of my club members.
 
Bat-mite said:
I would have had to say, "My wife." (Disclaimer: I love my wife and do not want to shoot her. I just think it would be a funny answer.)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that based upon what CJ mentions above. That said, I found some large animal bones in the woods next to my house (horse or cow no skull) and dropped them just outside my back fence. Termite guy comes around
and my wife is showing him around the house. He espies the bones and asks my wife what they are? She deadpans, "Oh, they're from my first husband!" Guy's eyes widened just a bit after hearing that. I got a good
laugh from that when I got home from work.

Me thinks if one is not a firearm guy, read up on stuff so you sound like you know what you are doing and don't be flip about it.
 
ecarson said:
As a long time muzzle-loading firearms user, I figured to chime in here a bit.

First, several of my purchases have been on direct visit to Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN, a couple hour drive from my house. They sell all grades of black powder across the counter, but only stock Goex brand I believe. They are a major dealer of replica black powder firearms, and every time I visit I browse for quite a while. They have an online catalog as well.

I use 1.5 Fg Swiss powder only, in a 1874 Sharps buffalo rifle (cartridge) replica. 2Fg I use in 50 or 45 caliber rifle applications. 3Fg is used in my Colt revolver replicas (percussion cap) in mainly 44 caliber.

I do have 4Fg, and that is used as only a pan priming source in my flintlock firearms. Very sparingly used at perhaps 3 grains only to prime a pan.

So I have a few decades experience in the use of black powder (as well as Pyrodex which I use in a modern in-line muzzle-loader application). I also use 209 shotgun primers rather than percussion caps for the in-line.

At any rate, a few years ago I made a bulk order via Powder, Inc. of Arkansas that was delivered by UPS I believe. HazMat applied of course, and I had to make a minimum order of 5 lbs. They were the only supplier that was reasonable on the Swiss powder, which again is reserved only for the Sharps replica (my "holy grail" rifle) cartridges. If memory serves, I had to send a PDF scanned file of my drivers license, and sign a waiver of some sort, which was all done via email. Once all that is done, your name and information stay on file there for future orders.

I'll close here with an amusing incident. I was firing my Kentucky long-rifle replica at the gun range one day (I'm a member of a private club here), and a group of AR-15 blasters were watching me with great interest. When I fired perhaps my 5th round of the day, they screamed out "ARE YOU OK!!". I looked over calmly after the shot and said, "Sure, I'm fine.". They were exclaiming "We saw fire shoot out the side of that thing, and thought you had burned your face clear off!" At this point they walked over, and I explained how a flintlock works with the pan and frizzen, plus the flint and hammer. I had rapt attention that day for a few minutes. But one statement got me...when I finished my explanation of how the flintlock system works, one of the younger members of the group asked, "Gosh, when did they come up with that?!" (as if it was some new innovation). I said, "Oh, about 400 years ago".
Click to expand...

Ummmmm, Errrrrrr, There's a lot of good advice in there by ecarson. If one gets 5lbs, they might be set for many, many years if they aren't in the shooting sports or don't fly real large rockets. Kurt
 
Why I began using the antique flintlock reason, right after that came out.
I have enough firearms and an old BP shotgun to cover my arse.
 
Bat-mite said:
Funny how a guy with a musket can store 49 lbs 15 oz of the stuff in his bedroom, but a guy using it for rocketry has to put his one pound in a safe. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Yes, it’s not reasonable, but it’s because of an exception Congress added to the laws. We just need the kind of lobby the NRA has. (I’m glad for the exception by the way. I am a shooter also.)
 
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I have a variety of BP firearms, including a couple of flintlocks. They are a ton of fun to shoot but if you use real BP they have to be cleaned up right away as the residue is quite corrosive (as we all know from our quicklinks, etc.) I use Ballistol which although smelly, works very well.

The good thing about our use of BP is that we generally use so little that a 1lb can will last most of us our flying careers. I've also had good success with Triple-7 in a well contained charge holders. Less problematic than BP but still can get you into trouble if you do dumb things with it.

In the end, it's the use that matters. One thing that drives me crazy is guys who talk about testing ejection charges in a local park or other public space. If someone complains and you get caught, a lot of trouble could ensue.


Tony
 
manixFan said:
One thing that drives me crazy is guys who talk about testing ejection charges in a local park or other public space. If someone complains and you get caught, a lot of trouble could ensue.
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed anybody talking about doing this and hope it is not true. Most people talk about ground testing at a launch or in their backyard (and worrying about the neighbors).

My neighbors see me do all kinds of weird/nerdy things in my suburban backyard, and nobody has yet to complain about a little crack of ejection charge test here and there.
 
Buckeye said:
I haven't noticed anybody talking about doing this and hope it is not true. Most people talk about ground testing at a launch or in their backyard (and worrying about the neighbors).

My neighbors see me do all kinds of weird/nerdy things in my suburban backyard, and nobody has yet to complain about a little crack of ejection charge test here and there.
Click to expand...

Ummmmm, The crack is usually very muffled by the body tube and the recovery laundry. An isolated area be it wherever is likely not going to
attract attention and in one's backyard, not likely to raise suspicion. One time I had a leftover 4F charge about 1.7gm I forgot what it was for and took
it outside to dispose of. I pushed the button on the Rf launch switch I had and Holee Cripes did it blow LOUD!!

Subsequent to that, I always bury the charges and then blow them. No noise then.

I once tested a deployment charge outside when we were feeding our "squirrels". Had several of those guys and gals who'd come right up and I could hand them nuts and food along with a pat on the head or scratch behind the ears.

I blew one test and of course the rattle of the quicklinks and the "ffffffoompp" could be heard. Apparently, my buddy "Peanut" (a female squirrel) was watching me from the roof and she starting running along the length of the roof. I heard the scritching of her claws on the
shingles, turned and yelled her name, "Peanut" and she stopped dead in her tracks and looked at me. I whipped a peanut out of my
pocket, waved it in the air and she clambered over to a low porch roof where I was able to stand on some steps and hand it to her.

Oh when I had the time to make friends with the "natives" of the woods. It was a riot when a squirrel would run up my leg and hang from
my belt for a treat. Or we could be raking leaves and our little house "trolls" would be doing "squirrel stuff in the yard and not be concerned with our presence. Another thing was they stayed out of the bird feeder since they knew they could come up to us or sit at the door
to get something to eat.

Kurt
 
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