Excelsior! The 3/4 scale Nike Smoke[Success flew today!!!]

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blackjack2564 said:
He and many of his Xtreme flying friends no longer frequent the Forum, after being beat up by many folks here. A real shame, these guys have come along way & been very successful in their endeavors last few years. Would have been some great info/projects to follow. Yeah they blew a few up, but who doesn't when doing Xtreme stuff. Ya learn by experience, & they are the future of our hobby.

Since it's being built in my shop, I insisted on documenting the build & flight, no matter how it turns out, it WILL be exciting. Complete motor built by him, with aprox 400.00 in material. [not including propellent]:smile:
Click to expand...

Thank you for documenting this. It is awesome to read and I applaud Manny (and you) for having the guts to go out and build it! We are all entitled to our ideas and should be able to pursue them without fear of persecution.
 
Agreed. We've lost a lot of good resources over the last couple years to the naysayers. It really is a shame.


blackjack2564 said:
He and many of his Xtreme flying friends no longer frequent the Forum, after being beat up by many folks here. A real shame, these guys have come along way & been very successful in their endeavors last few years. Would have been some great info/projects to follow...
Click to expand...
 
This is the best build thread I've seen in a long time! Of course, I'm partial to big dumb rockets...

The antique tools and barn/shop are awesome, by the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Mendal said:
Thank you for documenting this. It is awesome to read and I applaud Manny (and you) for having the guts to go out and build it! We are all entitled to our ideas and should be able to pursue them without fear of persecution.
Click to expand...
+1. The Forum should feel like a home to the entire rocketry world. Everyone has a role to play in that.
 
No pics today.

Started this morning with 3rd set of fillets.
While glue curing, got on internet to find chute repair specialist.

Gave them a call to inquire about their services. Immediately got the "you wanna put this chute in WHAT?"
They asked us to bring some proof of what we were doing with us, when bringing chute to look at, So I brought a couple High power magazines & my laptop with me.

Got told their immediate reaction was, we needed the chute to drop drugs out of airplane, Apparently that's happened more than often, around here, & we got hit with several interesting stories from them.
After we calmed their nerves and answered many questions of the type to "sort us out" they were very nice and will get it fixed in just 2 days......said to be sure to recommend them to all our rocket friends....LOL!!!!
Sooo....anyone want to jump out of a plane or get professional repair/rigging help go to "THE JUMPING PLACE" https://www.thejumpingplace.com/

Seemed very reasonable repair at 4.00 per line.

Drove to Sky-dive airport and dropped off the 28ft chute to have shroud lines sewn back together.
They said it was in excellent shape. Typical surplus cut lines in half.

Aluminum thrust plate design finalized & ordered.

Manny picked up nice shiny new vacuum pump & all the carbon, release, bagging stuff arrived from UPS.

Cut some templates from paper to overlay on carbon for the T-T

Got to 6pm & glue cured enough to rotate Smokie & finish last set of fillets.Been a Looong day.
Tomorrow actually today..it's 6 am.
V-bagging starts after sanding all fillets & set up for T-T.
 
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It sounds like to got a butchered surplus chute and needed a repair/restoration? Nice move with the mags and showing 'em some large rockets and perhaps the construction pictures of this project.
They're probably relieved that no drugs or people are going to be hanging under this chute. Kurt
 
ECayemberg said:
Cool!

That photo of the nosecone fitting 1" into the airframe brings back bad memories. Had the sand the snot out of every mating surface on the 3/4 Nike to get things to fit! Plea to Manny/CJ...make better use of that nosecone than I did! If I did it again, all the electronics would ride in the cone. Main chute would be in the cone, etc. A 4' length of 6" airframe fits nicely in that cone and should really be utilized!:wink:

Skippy is breathing new life into my former Nike in the near future...not too indifferent from what I see shaping up in CJ's bunker!

Have fun kids....that IS what it's really all about!:cool:
Click to expand...

Jim/Eric, can you comment on the above in relation to cone quality and fit, please? I have one too, got from Ken at ph in December, cone by Curtis. My cone is beat to death with bubbles cracks, dents, etc all over it. Also, I don’t believe any amount of sanding will make it fit, it’s closer to fitting over the airframe then inside it, literally. Ken talked to Curtis and Curtis agreed that the mold needs to be redone to better specs and I’m waiting on that to exchange cones and build mine. I also opted to extend the body by 3ft so I can duel deploy without an intricate new design above my newbie head. It won’t be perfectly to scale but will be bigger, and I’m a fan of the height. You’re doing a great job and I’m excited to follow. Any feedback on quality and fit of cone would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Great project, its too bad Manny and some of the others have been driven away we need more of these types of build threads.
 
ksaves2 said:
It sounds like to got a butchered surplus chute and needed a repair/restoration? Kurt
Click to expand...

Not at all, they were amazed at the fine like new condition. He said it was a "seat" chute. Pilots sit on it, somehow packed in seat cushion. When pilot ejects from plane, then gets free of seat, it automatically deployed. Looked to be never used. Usually when de-milled [?? [ lines are completely removed. This one, they just cut them in middle.

To fix they are doing 1 inch finger traps on each line & stiching the result. We will have 27-28, individual finger trapped loops to put Quick-links through and attach to rocket.

DannyB said:
Jim/Eric, can you comment on the above in relation to cone quality and fit, please? I have one too, got from Ken at ph in December, cone by Curtis. My cone is beat to death with bubbles cracks, dents, etc all over it. Also, I don’t believe any amount of sanding will make it fit, it’s closer to fitting over the airframe then not it, literally. Ken talked to Curtis and Curtis agreed that the mold needs to be redone to better specs and I’m waiting on that to exchange cones and build mine. I also opted to extend the body by 3ft so I can duel deploy without an intricate new design above my newbie head. It won’t be perfectly to scale but will be bigger, and I’m a fan of the height. You’re doing a great job and I’m excited to follow. Any feedback on quality and fit of cone would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

It's a crappy fit, won't even go into airframe. Short version, sand the Pi$$ out of shoulder.
Cut a sanding belt in half, lay cone horizontal & "shoe shine" sand it by passing the long belt over top and pulling both ends back and forth...like shining shoes. Start with 60 or 80.
Line inside with several layers of carbon. [it will be paper thin after sanding]

Insert a tube inside & foam around it/under, [stiffen/strengthen]to keep it from popping off gel coat when landing. Run 2 all-threads with fender washers on bottom end along side tube, that will get foamed in also.
Will be dual attachment points for recovery line. All hook ups....Av-bay-Fincan-NC will have Y-harness's for connection.
No worries I'll do complete work up on it when times comes......

We cut 4 inches of coupler to make av-bay that will fit in center of payload tube. Held in with well nuts, completely removable for prep....you'll see.

rharshberger said:
Great project, its too bad Manny and some of the others have been driven away we need more of these types of build threads.
Click to expand...

It is...what it is.....ya'll see how much crap slinging's been going on around here the last couple years...Presidential campaign....Hollywood...social media, seems to be the new norm.

Just remember. I know a guy...who knows a guy...who knows a guy. I'll have ya hunted down & stick peanut butter in all your motors!!!!:y::y: So keep it off my threads.:facepalm:
 
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DannyB said:
Jim/Eric, can you comment on the above in relation to cone quality and fit, please? I have one too, got from Ken at ph in December, cone by Curtis.
Click to expand...

blackjack2564 said:
It's a crappy fit, won't even go into airframe. Short version, sand the Pi$$ out of shoulder.
Cut a sanding belt in half, lay cone horizontal & "shoe shine" sand it by passing the long belt over top and pulling both ends back and forth...like shining shoes. Start with 60 or 80.
Line inside with several layers of carbon. [it will be paper thin after sanding]

Insert a tube inside & foam around it/under, [stiffen/strengthen]to keep it from popping off gel coat when landing. Run 2 all-threads with fender washers on bottom end along side tube, that will get foamed in also.
Will be dual attachment points for recovery line. All hook ups....Av-bay-Fincan-NC will have Y-harness's for connection.
No worries I'll do complete work up on it when times comes......
Click to expand...

Ditto what Jim said! CJ ROCKS!:cool:

Yep, had to sand the snot out of the cone shoulder to get it to fit. In doing so, as CJ said, enough of the wall was lost that I glassed the ID of the layup in order to maintain stiffness/wall thickness. I used a Makita palm sander with 60 grit for most of the removal process.

I put a full-length 6" dia phenolic airframe in the cone, hard point (bulkhead with forged eye) on the front end...that tied into a piece of all thread run to/thru the tip of the cone. One centering ring at the base of the cone to center the 6" tube and provide dual attachment points for recovery harness. 2 or 4 lb density US Composites urethane foam around the voids to solidify the inconsistent layup of the cone that you describe.

Top of the fincan was even worse...and it took YEARS for me to get all the pieces for that rocket from Curtis. I wouldn't personally hold my breath for a replacement cone....rework the one you've got, as at least you have it in hand. I'd bet that the replacement will have the same oversized shoulder....I'd be totally shocked if Curtis reworked the mold. The 3/4 Nike, though really big and cool, is not a high volume seller.

Looking good CJ and Manny!!!:cheers:
 
Awesome thread, glad you are posting - but now will require video of the flight :).
Being fairly new in Rocketry (4 years) good to see Manny back and some big projects.
I actually considered buying this rocket - now glad I didn’t - I wouldn’t have done it justice.
Great thread to learn for future big projects


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
blackjack2564 said:
Well there were many wondering, who bought Tim Dixon's Smoke:?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?143000-Huge-3-4-Scale-Nike-Smoke-FG-kit-w-extras

It's sitting out back in the "Soul Shack" my workshop. Actually it's all over my house..LOl

Glue station kitchen. Heat curing living room, in front of fireplace.

View attachment 336595

Minor assembly dining room.
View attachment 336596


Grinding, cutting, fitting & assembly "Soul Shack".

View attachment 336598



No I did not buy it....Manny did. Being stationed at Ft. Stewart & having no where to build it, He gave me a call. "Hey Jim, I'm bringing back [from Illinois] this project, can I build it at your place"?
Sure Manny..I'll even pitch in and help a bit. Welllllllfast forward a couple weeks AND.......

There was a knock on my door last week & when I opened it, this is what I saw: :y:

Can we come in????

View attachment 336594

Oh hell ya!!!

So for time being my Nike-Apache & Mach-2 rocket are on the back burner while this monster if full speed ahead.

WARNING DISCLAIMER: this build is not for the faint of heart. DO NOT CONTINUE on if easily offended by non conventional means of construction....100 yr old power tools

View attachment 336597
Tim [LEHR] if you read this..... Thanks for the saw, repurposed here with my "custom" tube cutting jig.
where the hell did you get this thing?


& epoxy mixed on food serving surfaces!!!@#@ & mini-grinders used to sand fins!

This will be fun for all.
Deadline 3 weeks, start to finish.
Official start.... yesterday Sat Jan 20 2018
Click to expand...





Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Oops. Guess I "pocket" re-posted. Ignore.

Cool build by the way! I will be following closely.
 
The Smoke fincan is sitting all night under the chug...chug...chug of a vacuum pump!
Tip-Tip is waiting to cure!
It was a bitch getting all these layers in a bag.....
First 2 sets of templates were cut from paper to lay over the material going on fincan.
4 sets of:
Carbon [2 layers]
6oz glass
Peel ply
Breather
Vacuum bag material.

DSCN0560.jpg


Aero-Poxy mixed and liberally applied to 1 set of fins.

DSCN0561.jpg

First layer of carbon applied. More glue.
Second layer of carbon.

DSCN0564.jpg DSCN0566.jpg

My gloved hands were too full of glue to get pics of next 2 steps......
after carbon 6oz glass was laid over entire fin.
Followed by the peel ply.
Finally breather layer was added last.

DSCN0568.jpg


Airframe has been wrapped with double sided tape in front and back of fins
This holds the bag material and all under layers in place, while fincan is rotated & other 3 sets of fins get same treatment as the first.

DSCN0570.jpg

After all fins have the T-T treatment, the bag material is sealed together with double sided tape, forming one giant bag.

DSCN0577.jpg


After thoroughly checking all seams, the vacuum hose is inserted into bag at fin tip & sealed in place.

DSCN0579.jpg

Pump turned on & bag checked for leaks, there were none!

DSCN0581.jpg

After a few minutes , pulling 26 & you can see vacuum pulling bag tight and excess glue being absorbed in breather layer.

DSCN0582.jpg


It all took 3 hours & 15 minutes start to finish, to get that monster bagged.
Went unbelievably smooth for something this size.

Tomorrow mid morning should be able to shut it off.
So I hope this makes all those wondering about fin flutter, happy now.....:wink:
There were 3 of us during the process, which I have simplified quite a bit for brevities sake. We were all kept busy through out the bagging.
Final trimming in place. Mixing batches of glue, keeping things moving smoothly.
 
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I'm curious about the benefits of the outer fiberglass layer.

More economical than a complete carbon layer?
 
Interesting to see the tip-to-tip only down the middle of the fin. Does that mitigate flutter as well as layers of carbon that are roughly the same shape as the fin?
 
BDB said:
Interesting to see the tip-to-tip only down the middle of the fin. Does that mitigate flutter as well as layers of carbon that are roughly the same shape as the fin?
Click to expand...

It's likely the area of most value-added from the strongest material. I think its only covering the flat portions of the fin as well, leaving the large tapered planes of the edges for the fiberglass vanity-sheet.
 
Removal of the T-T bagging material yielded a nice tight/smooth finished product.
It will take a few hours to sand the overlaps smooth & feather edges.
2 layers carbon on the flat center of fin, & 1 6oz covering every thing T-T.
We actually pulled 29 on vacuum.

DSCN0585.jpg

Next we spent couple hours working on the Av-bay.
Cut 4in. off coupler to make a doughnut bay.
Slid into position in payload, taped in place.
8 staggered postions marked for 1/4in. bolts.[tiny dots]

DSCN0589.jpg

Room is at a premium considering the airframe tubes are 44in. & space is needed to fly 70 in. long motors. Av-bay is in forward end of payload. Only a few inches between av-bay and NC bulk plates. Will likely recess NC bulk plate several inches in shoulder.
Coupler will be fastened to fincan allowing motor to pass through, into payload tube, & payload will separate at apogee, with NC attached.
Main will be in 7.5in stuffer tube, foamed in Nose cone.

Holes for bolts drilled through both airframe/coupler....key mark added.
Coupler removed and serrated flange nuts held in place with bolts, JB welded on.

DSCN0590.jpg DSCN0600.jpg

We are using Aluminum charge wells from "Rocket Junkies" for ejection. 8 gram size on main side, [which they carry] & a custom set of 16gram size for apogee.
Dave contacted me [Mendal on Forum]after seeing this thread, and graciously offered to supply us with them, & custom make the larger size we need.
Truly a well made product and anodized to make clean up easy!
The machine screw is counter sunk inside the well, & just made it through the 1in thick BP with enough treads left to get nutz on.
I highly recommend these, & suggest you give them a look for your next project. They are in process of designing some smaller thin long "gun barrel" type that are needed for high altitude deployment...........

https://rocketjunkies.com/

DSCN0595.jpg DSCN0597.jpg

Av-bay is 4in wide with 1/2 in. birch ply BP's adding another 1in. = 5in bay.
All hardware is 5/16ths.
4 carriage bolts [6in.] holding things together.
2 sets of U-bolts to attach recovery gear.
2 Rocket Junkie charge holders [only 1 mounted for pic]
BP will fill well with match placed ON TOP of charge.
Dog barf on top of that with 3 layers of aluminum duct tape holding things in place and to keep concussion of one charge, from setting off the other.

Kinda looks like a tambourine.....:smile:

DSCN0593.jpg
 
Last edited:
Chris_H said:
How is the deployment charge affected by where the match is placed in the BP?

Why do you choose to put the match on top?
Click to expand...

If placed at the bottom, there's a potential for the flame front to blow some powder out noncombusted.

Stick the match on top, and all powder is trapped below so it has a better chance to burn.
 

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