Excelsior! The 3/4 scale Nike Smoke[Success flew today!!!]

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blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
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Location
Savannah Ga
Well there were many wondering, who bought Tim Dixon's Smoke:?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?143000-Huge-3-4-Scale-Nike-Smoke-FG-kit-w-extras

It's sitting out back in the "Soul Shack" my workshop. Actually it's all over my house..LOl

Glue station kitchen. Heat curing living room, in front of fireplace.

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Minor assembly dining room.
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Grinding, cutting, fitting & assembly "Soul Shack".

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No I did not buy it....Manny did. Being stationed at Ft. Stewart & having no where to build it, He gave me a call. "Hey Jim, I'm bringing back [from Illinois] this project, can I build it at your place"?
Sure Manny..I'll even pitch in and help a bit. Welllllllfast forward a couple weeks AND.......

There was a knock on my door last week & when I opened it, this is what I saw: :y:

Can we come in????

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Oh hell ya!!!

So for time being my Nike-Apache & Mach-2 rocket are on the back burner while this monster if full speed ahead.

WARNING DISCLAIMER: this build is not for the faint of heart. DO NOT CONTINUE on if easily offended by non conventional means of construction....100 yr old power tools

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Tim [LEHR] if you read this..... Thanks for the saw, repurposed here with my "custom" tube cutting jig.
where the hell did you get this thing?


& epoxy mixed on food serving surfaces!!!@#@ & mini-grinders used to sand fins!

This will be fun for all.
Deadline 3 weeks, start to finish.
Official start.... yesterday Sat Jan 20 2018
 
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First order of business:


REMOVE THIS from fins . Tim D. I'm gonna pick on you now,[all in jest, ya know I love ya]

What the heck were you think'n. Those fins looked like you dipped them in epoxy and wrapped a potato sack around the root.

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So this non-conventional Kevlar removal tool was put into service.
Shown own top of beautifully recycled fins!

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I walked in on Manny grinding and everything looked like it was covered in a light snow.
Kevlar fuzz's badly when sanded or ground.

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Manny stopped to inform me, that while grinding SPARKS began to fly!

So Tim, I must ask.....why did you glue a razor blade between the Kevlar & fins?......:facepalm:
 
CJ, don't remove too much of that 12oz Kevlar (yellow potato sack). You will need it on the root edge and TTW tab.

Oh, I see you already did... You and Manny better do some flutter simulations if you are putting it up on an O-motor or greater.

Buy hey, it is Manny (hugs and high-fives, dude) so I know the flight will be spectacular (so leave the Kevlar off [emoji9]).

From the Ether...
 
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CJ, don't remove too much of that 12oz Kevlar (yellow potato sack). You will need it on the root edge and TTW tab.

Oh, I see you already did... You and Manny better do some flutter simulations if you are putting it up on an O-motor or greater.

Buy hey, it is Manny (hugs and high-fives, dude) so I know the flight will be spectacular (so leave the Kevlar off [emoji9]).

From the Ether...

Option B - chip off the lumpy Kevlar layup (came off in one piece, #surfaceprep) so the fins actually fit in the slots, and then vacuum bag the entire fin can with carbon strips (carbon > Kevlar for the fin flutter issues you mention, and one reinforced unit > 4 reinforced units glued together). I'm sure he'll even surface prep!

Also, time to drop the patronizing "hide the kids" narrative. If you still think it's relevant, you haven't been paying attention the last half-decade. Do your research.

Because this project was challenging for you doesn't mean the next owner needs a lecture. When you've been hanging in the desert flying things to Mach 4, flying lumberyards to Mach 1 because you're stuck on an Army base starts to look a little different.

-Clay
 
That is a very large cone.

I felt like that should to be stated for the record.

My "pappy" raised me on big nose cones!

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CJ, don't remove too much of that 12oz Kevlar (yellow potato sack).

Oh, I see you already did...

No worries Tim D. The whole fin-can [after small fillets] is getting 2 layers of carbon....Vacuum bagged. We don't trust 'em either!

Love the old table saw!

That relic is 1lb. short of becoming a boat anchor....but until then, it sure does the job. Doesn't even have power switch. When in use, one of us,stand ready to unplug...just in case. That thing had so much steel in it, probably forged with Conan's sword....that old too.
 
Option B - chip off the lumpy Kevlar layup (came off in one piece, #surfaceprep) so the fins actually fit in the slots, and then vacuum bag the entire fin can with carbon strips (carbon > Kevlar for the fin flutter issues you mention, and one reinforced unit > 4 reinforced units glued together). I'm sure he'll even surface prep!

Also, time to drop the patronizing "hide the kids" narrative. If you still think it's relevant, you haven't been paying attention the last half-decade. Do your research.

Because this project was challenging for you doesn't mean the next owner needs a lecture. When you've been hanging in the desert flying things to Mach 4, flying lumberyards to Mach 1 because you're stuck on an Army base starts to look a little different.

-Clay
Wow, you are a real blithering idiot! Did you do the flutter simulation on these polyester fins?!

How old are you anyway!? What rocket you have personally designed that has gone Mach 4?! Or are you just a tag along wannabe!?

Come back when you know what the F**k you are talking about!

From the Ether...
 
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Sunday report:

Umm these motor mounts just don't look right! [98mm central , 4 54mm out-boards.]
Can't let all this real estate go to waste....even if it turns into a 1 hit wonder.:wink:

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Ah yes, now here's the right size MM Cr....... 7.5inch.
Don't worry that's NOT main recovery attach point. That's just a back-up to be used if any small motors find their way in there.
There will be a machined aluminum plate up top, with threaded rod running in-between the 6in motor adapter & the inside wall of 7.5 motor tube...down to a Al full width thrust plate/motor retention.

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With this MM tube, ya can stick a 6in. in there ...or a cluster of 75's..or ah....hmmmmm.

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Now we've gone and done it....seems we need to cut off some fin tab, since we supersize the motor hole from 4in to 7.5

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Dang umm it......need to raise the roof, just to test fit this thang.

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Wow, you are a real blithering idiot! Did you do the flutter simulation on these polyester fins?!

How old are you anyway!? What rocket you have personally designed that has gone Mach 4?! Or are you just a tag along wannabe!?

Come back when you know what the F**k you are talking about!

From the Ether...

Tell me one thing - one - in my post that makes me a "blithering idiot," other than the fact that I correctly identified you as a guy whose mouth far outpaces his resume. What's the biggest motor you've flown? Highest? Fastest? Bet I check ya in every category.

Nobody thinks the fins will be fine unreinforced - and I didn't say that - so don't put words in my mouth. I just verbalized a better solution than yours (a resin rich Kevlar layup on each individual fin...LOL), and took exception to your unwarranted dose of attitude. You talk with authority on this forum frequently; don't be surprised when others do the same. You started this by throwing shade at Jim and Manny, so calm down.

Here's the good news - I think they're going with "Option B," so we'll see if it works!

Ask Manny about my resume if you want, he'll tell you. I'm probably half your age, but still a decade into adulthood! Does the age thing reflect poorly on my relevance or yours? Something to consider.

Come back with a post that's heavier on relevant content, and lighter on the sophomoric insults.

Back to the "Ether"
 
Wow, you think Manny's a star?!! I'm following Gus and I'm frigging out of here.

From the Ether...
 
Wow, you think Manny's a star?!! I'm following Gus and I'm frigging out of here.

From the Ether...

Boy there’s a ton of hostility since I last joined up, and yes I’m 23 but I’m gonna pull a “back in my day” when I was active a few years ago it was all constructive criticism, well thought out polite comments and most importantly a lot more building and flying and less attacking others for seemingly no reason. I guess I’m glad I didn’t encounter any (so far) on my return to TRF build thread but I have a feeling I may follow the rest of you and leave the forum after I finish my threads.
Rocketry is my hobby, I don’t want it to add to the stress and annoyance from my every day life, and this community is seemingly becoming more and more toxic as we speak.

It’s a real shame...

Also as a note, Dixon could tell me he was putting a 4” motor in a 3” rocket and I’d believe him. he’s been a fantastic forum member offering advice and amazing build threads since I’ve joined up 9 years ago, and I’d have no qualms about his design decisions, based on my experience with his posts.
 
More Sunday:

The " dichotomy" of motor mounts.

My teeny MM from Nike-apache hiding in big brother Nike Smoke M Mount.
Glued in airframe early morning, now ready to mount fins.
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Waiting for glue to dry, cut 4in. off coupler, to make a "doughnut" Av-bay.
Smoothing off end of cut coupler.

4 inch cut off gets mounted in center of upper body tube.
Prep -it....slide into tube....[4] 1/4-20 well nuts hold in place ...DD out of payload.
Fin-can will have coupler bolted in [zipperless] but long motor can go through ...up into payload.
Apogee..payload blows off fin can
Main...NC blows off payload.
Av-bay centered in payload. Viola......simple DD in this monster!

Also cut/shortened MM tube. Fin can is 44inch [yeah I know strange] MM was 48.
Used the tube cutting jig and made perfect square cuts...first time out.

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Using a new glue for us...West Six-10. Comes in a dual cylinder caulk-gun size, with mixing nozzle. Very thick & won't run...supposed to be a faster cure than 105.
Though we might save time and do all 4 fins in one day....uumm. NOT.
I know 105 thickened sets up faster than this stuff, but it DOES work very well, albeit the 26.00 a tube tag.

Nozzle came in handy for getting glue down on MM tube.
Held shape fine, handles like bath-tub caulk.

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First fin mounted.
Used my great-grandfathers brass plumb-bob, to align fin straight.
Heck if it was good enough to build the ancient Pyramids, should be good enough for us.
Think about that one.....tool that's thousands of years old built buildings etc in olden times...used to align fins on modern technology.. a rocket.:wink:

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Break for dinner at Crystal Beer Parlor...crab stew and shrimp samich!
Finally after sticking a hairdryer in the pipe for 2 hours, fin set & can be rotated.

Glued in 2nd fin, aligned with 1st fin, [plum bob] taped in place, and caulk some glue into anywhere needed...LOL

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Hmm ... Manny...... remember this one? It had 5 minute holding fins in......[till fillets of course]
ain't our first rodeo.
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Well folks..I'd say 2 guys got a fair amount done for first darn day.
Next finish last 2 fins install.
Onto exterior fillets prior to carbon T-T.
 
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Cool!

That photo of the nosecone fitting 1" into the airframe brings back bad memories. Had the sand the snot out of every mating surface on the 3/4 Nike to get things to fit! Plea to Manny/CJ...make better use of that nosecone than I did! If I did it again, all the electronics would ride in the cone. Main chute would be in the cone, etc. A 4' length of 6" airframe fits nicely in that cone and should really be utilized!:wink:

Skippy is breathing new life into my former Nike in the near future...not too indifferent from what I see shaping up in CJ's bunker!

Have fun kids....that IS what it's really all about!:cool:
 
Boy there’s a ton of hostility since I last joined up,


It’s a real shame...

.
The real shame is the people who think they have to bring their negativity to some one else's build thread.
It seems to be the way things are now days. people hating each other.
Sorry for the rant Jim, carry on.
 
Today we got fin # 3 in place late afternoon.
Little acetone wipe down to prep for epoxy.

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In place and epoxy caulk to finish off after aligning & tape in place.

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It'll take 2-3hrs for glue to set, so we can rotate fincan for final fin.
Stuck hairdryer in the pipe to help speed things up. Went to dinner to kill some time.
As Manny was setting fin 4, I noticed his shirt.....gave me a chuckle & got a close up to share. Apparently this is his fathers business...lol

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Final fin in place...aligned with my old plumb bob.
Looks like a Smoke!!!

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Next external fillets, before carbon layup.
 
Just out of curiosity, how are you going to get this beast to wherever it will fly? Are you gonna distract Scarpine with a new motor case and borrow his truck?
 
Strap it on luggage roof rack fully assembled!
Get put on every social media page there is...every time we get passed on the way to Talladega from Savannah.

Just in case.....I carry a Bail Bond card in my wallet...hey Al send me your bank account number.


Actually rent a small U-haul.


Tonight just finished up first set of fillets.
One quart of glue.
1/2 can of 404 filler.

12in. section of "3" inch [75mm ] airframe to pull out/smooth fillets.
Coated edge of tube with magic marker[same way we do all fillets] rubbed in V-groove leaving lines on fin/airframe.
Tape to lines. Fill & pull smooth.

Green Giant sized fillets!!

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Looking good, guys! Let's see some more picture of the power plant...
 
I'll get some motor pics from Manny & post.

Target launch Feb Talladega Alabama TRA club.
 
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Fine tuned epoxy usage. 130 grams of Aero-Poxy with West 404 filler mixed at glue station.
Works out perfect for 2 giant fillets. Cold in shop so glue mixed & left to sit in kitchen

Side note, I put left overs from first batch in fridge & freezer. To my amazement...both cured by morning! I've done this with West & it was still usable 24hrs later.

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The 3in Airframe marking/pulling tool about to go into action.
Just like making smaller fillets, coat edge of tube with marker & rub on fin/airframe leaving lines to tape to.

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Stick the goop on fins

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Pull smooth with giant tool:

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Voila....2nd set of fillets bites the dust!

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Motor is 6 inch single use O.

The wall thick is .25
Manny turned all parts himself. case was made in approx 12hrs in sub zero temps as lathe in the barn.
Icicles formed on lathe, during process from coolant....lol

Nozzle carrier made [phenolic section] gluing flat sheet blocks together, then forming cylinder with graphite insert.

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Pinned into case with 2 rows [16/row] 32 total 1/4 pins. both closures.

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Grains [propellent he does not wish to disclose] various core and length sizes. Aprox 38,000Ns [or is it N]?

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He and many of his Xtreme flying friends no longer frequent the Forum, after being beat up by many folks here. A real shame, these guys have come along way & been very successful in their endeavors last few years. Would have been some great info/projects to follow. Yeah they blew a few up, but who doesn't when doing Xtreme stuff. Ya learn by experience, & they are the future of our hobby.

Since it's being built in my shop, I insisted on documenting the build & flight, no matter how it turns out, it WILL be exciting. Complete motor built by him, with aprox 400.00 in material. [not including propellent]:smile:
 
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