New Estes Patriot Citation Build

I received my Estes Patriot Citation kit today and will begin building Mon. My camera is in the shop so I wont be able to download pictures until Mon. The kit looks great and I will compare it to my Vintage Citation boxed Patriot and my 1970s/80s bagged Patriot.

I am able to post pictures today, so I have all three of my kits open to show the minor differences. The New Citation decals look good and they are kind of a mix between the old Citation and the late 70s 80s version. The Vintage Citation stripes are longer than the second generation and the new Citation has the same length stripes as the Vintage boxed Citation. The Eagles wrap around the decal is shorter in height in the vintage Boxed Patriot and the two bagged versions are the same height. The old box Patriot decal has white ink where the newer kits its clear, probably since those areas of the rocket are painted white. The only other minor difference is the Estes Logo on the new released kit is over the T in both the Patriot wording.... In the two older kits the Estes Logo is over the T on one Patriot and over the P on the other. The motor mount tube is shorter on the new released kit vs the older two kits. Obviously the engine holder hook is different on the newer kit. The laser cut balsa is spot on with the exact same size fin as the older kits. The last thing to note is the 3 cones are identical in shape and size but obviously different generation nose cones. All and all a great bring back kit. More to follow.

More pictures

Thanks for the comparison. This is one of those kits that I didn't care for back in the day, but am glad it is back.

Thanks for documenting this... Nice to see that the 1980's decals clearly are shorter than the original, and the new versions.

So, you have all three versions of the nosecone for this bird. Nice! I'm trying to do that too. I have both the older versions (one I built, one I bought built).

Can I talk you out of a good scan of the older (1980s) 0652's version of the red and blue decals (with a good ruler)? The only scan I can find right now is from JimZ's site, and doesn't have the ruler. Also, I can't tell from your photographs... Can you confirm the original KC-3's version has white sections between the red bars, and in the stars (whereas both the 0652 versions don't)?

Thanks!

As soon is my scanner is up and running I will scan the decals with a ruler. Only the boxed Citation Patriot has the white sections and stars.

A fast build and great kit, she is ready for 3 to 4 coats of balsa sealer tomorrow after the fillets dry overnight. The build is straight forward and some of the measurements for building the engine mount are different on all three kits. The one thing I should have modified was to shorten how much the engine hook extends out. The way the plans have it you cannot stand the rocket on the fins because of the hook.

SCIGS30 said:

... The one thing I should have modified was to shorten how much the engine hook extends out. The way the plans have it you cannot stand the rocket on the fins because of the hook.

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or just move the whole engine mount assembly up until the engine hook is even with the bottom fin tips or by clipping off the finger lash portion of the engine hook and mounting it rotated on to the motor tube (which is how I always do it).

SCIGS30 said:

...The only other minor difference is the Estes Logo on the new released kit is over the T in both the Patriot wording.... In the two older kits the Estes Logo is over the T on one Patriot and over the P on the other...

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This seems to be a mistake for the new version. The Estes logo would fit better on the root side of the tapered fin. The older kits shifted the Estes logo position so it can go on the root side: over the T on the facecard side of the fin, and over the P on the reverse side. I guess you can cut the logo part off from the name decal and put it where it will fit better on the backside of the fin.

image from post in the Gallery Thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...C-3-MK-3-or-0652)-Gallery&p=260072#post260072
logo over the P on the reverse side from a vintage kit

The decals on the new Estes Citation Patriot should match VERY closely the decals from the Old Citation Patriot since an original decal was traced over to create the new decal. The colors will vary somewhat from the old decal. The Flag Decal on the OLD Patriot was much shorter then the Citation Patriot.

John Boren

OK, I see one issue you mentioned now. The Estes Logo is in the same location over the Gold Patriot text. I took a look at the artwork I created and it was correct, somewhere down the road it got changed. I try and get this corrected for the next run of kits.


John Boren

COLLECTORS ITEMS!!!!

Buy several dozen NOW!!!!

JumpJet said:

OK, I see one issue you mentioned now. The Estes Logo is in the same location over the Gold Patriot text. I took a look at the artwork I created and it was correct, somewhere down the road it got changed. I try and get this corrected for the next run of kits.


John Boren

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YES, Estes cleverly does this just so a few dozen modelers will collect as many as they can afford. "Evil Laugh Goes Here"

John Boren

Please scan the fin decals (with ruler), I want to document this change in the design. I was planning on buying 3, now it looks more like I'll need 5+.

John, Why did you have to say that about the decals, now I have to wait and buy more Patriot kits..........Unless Estes wants to sell the corrected the decals......Omega?

Been busy with work, but I have had time to paint the Patriot. Once again keeping my builds simple, 3 coats of Brodak balsa sealer followed by the top coats, no primer since I am using Old Formula Krylon. Tomorrow I will apply the decals and she will be all done.

The decals went on great, much easier than the ALPS foil decals and they look great. The easiest way to apply the large wrap around decal is to apply a good amount of water to the area first and slowly work the decal around the BT squeezing out the air bubbles and making it flat. I think the next time I will trim the wrap around decal a 1/8 of an inch so it does not overlap for a cleaner look. I did end up cutting the Estes logo off one of the Patriot decals so I could apply it to the correct position. The original Patriot has you insert the engine mount until the bottom of the hook is even with the body tube, this version has you align the motor mount tube even with the body tube. I ended up trimming the engine hook so it will now rest on the fins. Good job Estes:fly:

NICE!!!

Really nice work on a nice classic kit reissue. How did the reverse side of the black fin turn out?

SCIGS30 said:

The last thing to note is the 3 cones are identical in shape and size but obviously different generation nose cones. All and all a great bring back kit. More to follow.

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BTW I've noticed that there is a length difference in the different generation nosecones.

I've got a PNC-60AH injection molded from a Estes Omega ca 1971 in a sample that was sent here in China. My measurements has it at 6 5/8" long
I've got another PNC-60AH from an Omega produced after the switch to blow molded here in China. It measured out at 6 23/32" long. A difference of 3/32".
Regrettably, I don't have a modern PNC-60AH to measure here.

To measure the nosecones, I put them in a body tube, then hold the body tube in a piece of aluminum angle, I push them against a flat surface, mark where the nosecone ends, and measure from that.

I'll note that there appears to be discrepancies in the lengths of nosecones in the Estes Catalogs. In 1971-1973, the BNC-60AH was listed as 7 1/4" long in dimension 1 (exposed length), by 1974 it looks like the error was caught and the BNC-60AH was then listed as 6 5/8" long (the PNC-60AH wasn't listed as a separately available part for purchase during those years). The PNC-60AH appears in the 1975 catalog as 6 5/8" long despite actually being longer.

My current issued kits, the "Estes" have been moved to mirror the Left and Right.
I have noticed that the FLAG Wrap, also has a LEFT and RIGHT, as looking at the center, the offset star is to the right on one, and to the left of center on the other. The old decals, both are bias to the right.
The blue is also darker.

Red7Fifty said:

My current issued kits, the "Estes" have been moved to mirror the Left and Right.
I have noticed that the FLAG Wrap, also has a LEFT and RIGHT, as looking at the center, the offset star is to the right on one, and to the left of center on the other. The old decals, both are bias to the right.
The blue is also darker.

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Nice catch on the stars... I hadn't picked up on that. Going to need to check my sims for accuracy on that.

It's all in the details....accuracy.....the difference between success, and a CATO.