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  1. #1
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    AeroTech Arreaux Build Thread Thoughts and the ramblings of a BAR

    Ok, going to post here as that is the way that I was looking to go for first while getting back into mid and high power rocketry.

    NAR # 53237
    NHRC - 365 NASA/Houston Rocket Club; Flying in the shadow of the Mighty Saturn-5!!

  2. #2
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    Just wondering, with the advent of the Jolly Logic Chute Release, is there any difference to building an e-bay for dual deployment as far as simplicity to complexity vs costwise?

    NAR # 53237
    NHRC - 365 NASA/Houston Rocket Club; Flying in the shadow of the Mighty Saturn-5!!

  3. #3
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    An Arreaux should be plenty wide enough to work with a JLCR. I know lots of folks say 38mm should work, but the fit is too tight for my taste.

    As far as $$$ vs. functionality, that's a tough call. Certainly motor eject + low open makes for a substantially easier build, prep, & recovery.

  4. #4
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    26th January 2010
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    Personally, I think prep is much simpler with a JLCR, and you don't need an av-bay.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    26th October 2016
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    One "disadvantage" of the JLCR is that you're at the mercy of the motor's delay. I have a Wildman JR. That I'm planning to fly on a chute release and have considered using an altimeter just for the apogee charge. Should still be easy to setup with one one parachute and one charge to prep. And of course a long motor delay gives you a backup charge.
    NAR level 2: Mad Cow Super DX3

  6. #6
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    26th August 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timdreamer View Post
    Just wondering, with the advent of the Jolly Logic Chute Release, is there any difference to building an e-bay for dual deployment as far as simplicity to complexity vs costwise?
    I have had an Arreaux and use a JLCR every flight. the Aerotech F20-7 single use motor makes for a great flight. A JLCR was aboard on my L1 cert flight in a Mega Der Red Max and I use it anytime I fly my MAC Performance 3FNC. Motor eject timing is not as critical with a JLCR as the chute stays bundled up and does not deploy at high speed. IMHO, I would save dual deploy for a larger, more complex project.
    Joe Rice
    TRA 16467
    URRG / QCRS
    L1 Mega Der Red Max - CTI H123 URRG 8/27/2016
    L2 MAC Performance Rayzor - CTI J285 URRG 8/28/2016

  7. #7
    Join Date
    7th July 2013
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    I have two Arreaux, one SD the other DD, still unfinished. I picked up the second one specifically as a DD before the JLCR came out, otherwise I would have just stuck with the SD. the JLCR fits into it no problem and has no issues on deployment. I have dozens of flights on mine, all nominal. Just sim it before you fly it in an effort to get the delay right.

    There are two things that I would do different from stock.

    - leave out eh motor hook and go with a retainer
    - zipper proof your booster by gluing the coupler into the booster section.

    The other thing that I have read on the forum is to leave out the cooling mesh and anchor point for the harness. Personally I like the cooling mesh and it makes things easier for the JLCR which they say you should not use with a nomex. I use a small amount of dog barf just for a bit of extra protection. Just one word of caution, clean the cooling mesh often, ideally after each flight. The cooling mesh is easy to clean and replace if you pick a flexible pickup claw tool https://www.homedepot.com/p/VIM-Tool...FC24/207131822

    Have fun, this is a great mid-power rocket.
    Michael Pitfield
    TRA 14579 L2
    NAPAS BoD
    URRG
    MARS
    CRC

  8. #8
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    26th January 2010
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    I thought Aerotech kits included their aluminum retainer now.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  9. #9
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    26th August 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpitfield View Post
    I have two Arreaux, one SD the other DD, still unfinished. I picked up the second one specifically as a DD before the JLCR came out, otherwise I would have just stuck with the SD. the JLCR fits into it no problem and has no issues on deployment. I have dozens of flights on mine, all nominal. Just sim it before you fly it in an effort to get the delay right.

    There are two things that I would do different from stock.

    - leave out eh motor hook and go with a retainer
    - zipper proof your booster by gluing the coupler into the booster section.

    The other thing that I have read on the forum is to leave out the cooling mesh and anchor point for the harness. Personally I like the cooling mesh and it makes things easier for the JLCR which they say you should not use with a nomex. I use a small amount of dog barf just for a bit of extra protection. Just one word of caution, clean the cooling mesh often, ideally after each flight. The cooling mesh is easy to clean and replace if you pick a flexible pickup claw tool https://www.homedepot.com/p/VIM-Tool...FC24/207131822

    Have fun, this is a great mid-power rocket.
    Times 2....
    Joe Rice
    TRA 16467
    URRG / QCRS
    L1 Mega Der Red Max - CTI H123 URRG 8/27/2016
    L2 MAC Performance Rayzor - CTI J285 URRG 8/28/2016

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    I thought Aerotech kits included their aluminum retainer now.
    I just checked and in fact on Apogees sight it does say that it now comes with one. Sounds like Aerotech has been listening to feedback, nice looking aluminum retainer too!

    Oh and I thought of one other mod, forget the lugs and go with 1010 rail buttons. For simplicity I screwed my 1010 buttons right onto the launch lugs. There are some clubs that won't allow such a relatively heavy rocket on the 1/4 rod due to the higher chance of rod whip.
    Michael Pitfield
    TRA 14579 L2
    NAPAS BoD
    URRG
    MARS
    CRC

  11. #11
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    15th October 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpitfield View Post
    ......the JLCR which they say you should not use with a nomex
    I've never heard this. Where's it come from?
    "I'm at least 70% confident about whatever I say (90% of the time)"- college me

    NAR 101195
    Level 1: Big SAM, 9/10/16

  12. #12
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    26th August 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpitfield View Post
    I just checked and in fact on Apogees sight it does say that it now comes with one. Sounds like Aerotech has been listening to feedback, nice looking aluminum retainer too!

    Oh and I thought of one other mod, forget the lugs and go with 1010 rail buttons. For simplicity I screwed my 1010 buttons right onto the launch lugs. There are some clubs that won't allow such a relatively heavy rocket on the 1/4 rod due to the higher chance of rod whip.
    The first flight on my Arreaux was at URRG in 2016. Launched off a 1/4 inch rod with an AT F20-7. On the pad weight was 17 ounces. Really bad rod whip. I removed the kit guides and installed mini rail buttons. Now flies straight as an Arreaux. Some clubs dont have 20mm rails for mini buttons, so 10/10 rail buttons would be a safe choice. Here is a pic with the mini buttons. I'll have to spot in some paint one day....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Joe Rice
    TRA 16467
    URRG / QCRS
    L1 Mega Der Red Max - CTI H123 URRG 8/27/2016
    L2 MAC Performance Rayzor - CTI J285 URRG 8/28/2016

  13. #13
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    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytrunner View Post
    I've never heard this. Where's it come from?
    Good question. I just did a 5 min search but could not find where it was mentioned. However it was mentioned back when the tech was new and just getting off the ground, I think it was in a developing best practice thread. It could be that the initial concerns were proven not to be valid so it is not a recommended practice at this point, I honestly don't know.

    If I remember the concerns correctly, they were born out of an issue reported with the cable cutter burrito wrap technique, which is a mechanically similar deployment. As it was explained the idea of folding and wrapping the chute tightly was that it popped open when the JLCR let go, and the thought was that the nomex wrap would dampen that effect or even just not unwrap or unwrap in a timely manner.
    Last edited by mpitfield; 12th January 2018 at 11:06 PM. Reason: purr grammer and spellink
    Michael Pitfield
    TRA 14579 L2
    NAPAS BoD
    URRG
    MARS
    CRC

  15. #15
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    Gotcha. Potential risk mitigation disproved empirically.
    I was particularly interested because I've been flying my L1 rocket with a chute release under the 12x12 nomex protector all year lol.

    Hadn't noticed any issues, although I have the cord setup so that the nomex is close to the body tube end, and the chute is closer to the nose cone. In theory, they get pulled apart long before the release is set to let go.

    Bt--nmx---chute---cone
    ==l -<-------V-----|>

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytrunner View Post
    ==l -<-------V-----|>
    Ah I see, but I did not I know the secret formula
    Michael Pitfield
    TRA 14579 L2
    NAPAS BoD
    URRG
    MARS
    CRC

  17. #17
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    That was my poor attempt at depicting the BT, protector, chute, and cone via ascii.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytrunner View Post
    Gotcha. Potential risk mitigation disproved empirically.
    I was particularly interested because I've been flying my L1 rocket with a chute release under the 12x12 nomex protector all year lol.

    Hadn't noticed any issues, although I have the cord setup so that the nomex is close to the body tube end, and the chute is closer to the nose cone. In theory, they get pulled apart long before the release is set to let go.

    Bt--nmx---chute---cone
    ==l -<-------V-----|>
    Thats what I did with my latest scratch build- have not flown it yet though, I never considered the CR issue- I just figured the extra drag couldnt hurt on decent
    I have gone to find myself, If I return before I get back- Keep me here.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    I thought Aerotech kits included their aluminum retainer now.
    It's actually an Aero Pac retainer in an AeroTech package, I went ahead and got the 24to29mm adaptor that fits like a charm.

    The kit also comes with a set of conformal rail guides as well. Way to go AT!!!!
    NAR # 53237
    NHRC - 365 NASA/Houston Rocket Club; Flying in the shadow of the Mighty Saturn-5!!

  20. #20
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    I think that along with the rocket I'm looking to seriously upgrading my ground support equipment as well if all I can fly it with would be a 1010 rail.
    NAR # 53237
    NHRC - 365 NASA/Houston Rocket Club; Flying in the shadow of the Mighty Saturn-5!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timdreamer View Post
    I think that along with the rocket I'm looking to seriously upgrading my ground support equipment as well if all I can fly it with would be a 1010 rail.
    If you get a pair of 1/4" lugs and mount them one fin over, you can fly the thing anywhere.

    That's what I've done to my PSII rockets. Buttons for flying hi-power with the club, and lugs for whenever I get the chance to fly mid-power on my own.

  22. #22
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    22nd August 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytrunner View Post
    I've never heard this. Where's it come from?
    I had a Nomex burrito, including my JLCR, get stuck in the tube once. The chute release worked but the chute never deployed because it was still lodged in the body tube. But that was on a BT60 rocket. For tubes larger in diameter, I don't think a nomex chute protector would be a problem.
    NAR #100940, RIMRA & CMASS
    L1 - 4/17/16, Tyrannosaur (by Binder Design), Loki H144
    L2 - 8/19/17, Terrordactyl (by Binder Design), CTI J250

  23. #23
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    Yup, I just can't get 38mm to work as often as I'd like. 50mm no problem.

  24. #24
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    AeroTech Arreaux Build Thread Thoughts and the ramblings of a BAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Timdreamer View Post
    It's actually an Aero Pac retainer in an AeroTech package, I went ahead and got the 24to29mm adaptor that fits like a charm.
    The AeroTech retainer is not an AeroPac, the threads have a much smaller pitch. It's good to know that it's compatible with an AeroPac adapter, though.

    Paul
    NAR #87246 L1 - Section #558 - www.wooshrocketry.org
    "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane" - Jimmy Buffett

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