Hobbico Bankruptcy

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I would not like so Great Planes disappear from the market, I build 1 or 2 of their kits every year O.S engines will be also a huge lost.

OS is a separate company based in Japan. Great Planes is the US distributor, so if Hobbico was to go away, someone else should be able to, in theory, pick up the distribution rights.


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We used to have 2 Hobby People stores and 3 Hobby town USA. We have 1 Hobby town now, that hasnt ordered any inventory in a long time with bare shelves. Sucks.

Most of the LHS around me disappeared 10 years ago. They rarely carried anything bigger than Estes products, and Mom and Pop would always screw you at the full retail price. To top it off, the shop owners tended to be cranky, old know-it-alls who always talked down to the customers. Yeah, I don't miss that.

Face it, traditional craftmanship hobbies are soon dead. "Building" things now means 3D printing, robots, drones, and computer programs. Look at any rocket launch and what do you see standing in the middle of the cornfield? 90% middle-aged and senior citizen men. It is a good thing the electronic payload gizmos - flight computers, cameras, and GPS - are keeping hobby rocketry up to date.
 
Mostly because kids today are into electronic sim fun, not real life. 4 yr old grand daughter won't go anywhere without her iPad. I find this Ridiculous. But I am an old fogey these days. I still fly Rockets, but they are bigger now. I have a Mars Lander from 1975, not flyable - all the rubber is decayed. And 2 Upscales at 1.6X and 2X. Thanks You Papa Tango. And Yes, I got my Level 1 Cert with the 1.6X Mars Lander on the 4th of July, 2005. Got a picture of my 2X in the Sport Rocketry Magazine in the coverage of the National Sport Launch in 2012. Used the same motor as the 1.6X, Yes I did some engineering on it to reduce the weight a lot. Did the CAD work myself recently for a 3X to be built soon. MUCH lighter than the 3X on the web. Got a nice 3D printer now to make the Nose Cones, Those were getting pricey. We got to stick together and teach the young ones, Take them to a launch, Some of them get excited about it. 2 of my Grandkids now have model Rockets. Also one Great Niece & one Great Nephew. She now has 2 rockets, I gave her another one for Christmas. It's a Fliskits Frik N Frak. v She likes my Fliskits Pheord F150 (redneck junkyard) saucer so I got her a saucer type, this one is 2 pieces.
 
That does not sound good. It looks like Hobbico owns Tower Hobbies. I have been ordering things from Tower Hobbies for years.
Me too. And Great Planes...jeez...this could leave a big hole if there is no buyer.

Hobbico was formed in 1986 when Clint Atkins combined two companies he bought:
Don Anderson's Great Planes Model Distributors and Bruce Holecek's Tower Hobbies, which was founded in 1971.

According to its website, Hobbico is the largest U.S. distributor of hobby products and has 12 different facilities, including five in Champaign-Urbana and others in Germany, the United Kingdom, California, Colorado and Nevada
 
Most of the LHS around me disappeared 10 years ago. They rarely carried anything bigger than Estes products, and Mom and Pop would always screw you at the full retail price. To top it off, the shop owners tended to be cranky, old know-it-alls who always talked down to the customers. Yeah, I don't miss that.

Face it, traditional craftmanship hobbies are soon dead. "Building" things now means 3D printing, robots, drones, and computer programs. Look at any rocket launch and what do you see standing in the middle of the cornfield? 90% middle-aged and senior citizen men. It is a good thing the electronic payload gizmos - flight computers, cameras, and GPS - are keeping hobby rocketry up to date.

So true.
 
There is still a ton of scratch building being done in the RC aircraft world, both foamies and composite/wood, probably more than ever, look at flitetest we get a lot of their kit planes at our club. It is much easier to design using cad and laser cut and 3d printing people are creating much more complex models, sharing of free plans is common and internet forums helps share techniques. Now you just have a lot more people in RC now than before because it is so easy to get started with arfs and quads without building that the ratio of builders is smaller. Tower just did not have the greatest products similar to what happened to hobbylobby rc mail order, they used to find great products from all over then they just had nothing. Maker scene is exploding, I don't think building and craftsmanship is dying, it's just moving in different areas. I see similar things in shooting sports, muzzleloading was being sustained by folks who were there in the Renaissance of the 70s, now they are gone. Traditional bullseye sports have smaller turnouts, but action pistol and long-range shooting are expanding, so marksmanship isn't gone, just changed focus. A lot of us rocketeers grew up in the space race and in a time before rtf so we didn't have an option but to build, we invested time in the rockets and have more of a connection to that. If you grow up with instant gratification of rtf, that may sell motors and expose people but it doesn't really develop a long term interest necessarily. It's just another toy to be used and broken and thrown away. Teach people how to design and build their own thing and they will get interested because they have some investment.
 
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This and the comments are worth the time to read,
https://www.uavexpertnews.com/2017/01/industry-giants-flounder/

Merchants Are Suffering
Merchants have gotten the short end of the stick as consumer trends and shopping habits change, and manufacturers squeeze out distributors
...
Each industry is different, but in the US most customers simply do not understand (or care) how businesses work. Most are unaware that retail hobby and electronics stores operate on profits that have been driven to less than a 20% gross margin. What this means is that a typical beginner model airplane that might sell at a store for $99.99, cost the store $79.99. But to really get the full picture you have to do all of the math. For instance that model aircraft product that sells for $99.99 at the store (and online) has the following cost associated with it.
 
I see similar things in shooting sports, muzzleloading was being sustained by folks who were there in the Renaissance of the 70s, now they are gone. Traditional bullseye sports have smaller turnouts, but action pistol and long-range shooting are expanding, so marksmanship isn't gone, just changed focus.

FWIW, There are a few states like our (Ohio) where muzzleloaders have their own deer season. Serious hunting enthusiasts purchase those weapons just to extend their hunting season by a week or two. The same applies to bow season and longbows, crossbows, compound bows, etc.
 
I just graduated from a mechanical engineering program last year. I am a bit older than the normal college kid(36) and I found almost nobody in the department was really "into" anything. I was part of our Formula SAE(race car team) program and a few people were into cars a did a bit of wrenching but that's it. I was the only person on our world record rocket project attempt that had any involvement in rocketry outside of being around for some LPR launches when they were very young. A couple people were into shooting, and I had heard of a couple people who had multi-rotors, but nobody was particularly active with any of it.
Part of that is that engineering school is hard and you really don't have a lot of time to participate, but most were never exposed to begin with. I had to teach some of the kids working on the rocket project how to glue things and use a dremel and cordless drill. This was an engineering program, not humanities.

Growing up my dad was into motorcycles and RC planes. I had a Tower Hobbies catalog within arms reach from about 10 years old on. If we weren't flying planes we were flying rockets or or driving RC cars or going to the mountains with ATV's, etc.

This is a top down problem. I feel like if parents aren't passionate about stuff like this(or anything, really) their kids are unlikely to be either. It doesn't even have to be the same stuff.
 
You would think that Jeff Bezos, being both master of the Amazon universe and Blue Origin would have a place in his $106 billion dollar net worth for Estes, we shall see. Maybe Elon will buy it just as a side business.
 
A lot of us rocketeers grew up in the space race and in a time before rtf so we didn't have an option but to build, we invested time in the rockets and have more of a connection to that. If you grow up with instant gratification of rtf, that may sell motors and expose people but it doesn't really develop a long term interest necessarily. It's just another toy to be used and broken and thrown away. Teach people how to design and build their own thing and they will get interested because they have some investment.

No truer words have been spoken. In those days, it was fine that we had to learn how to do something, especially if it piqued our interests. It’s this very thing (I think) that kept bringing us back to the hobby 5, 10 and sometimes 20 years later. Since my last “BAR” explosion, I’ve watched carefully at how the hobby had changed and was continuing to change, and it was a bit sad to see how it was morphing into instant gratification. I felt that this could not be a good thing. Kid’s interests were shifting. Not that they hadn’t been properly introduced to the hobby.

Growing up my dad was into motorcycles and RC planes. I had a Tower Hobbies catalog within arms reach from about 10 years old on. If we weren't flying planes we were flying rockets or or driving RC cars or going to the mountains with ATV's, etc.

This is a top down problem. I feel like if parents aren't passionate about stuff like this(or anything, really) their kids are unlikely to be either. It doesn't even have to be the same stuff.

And I’ll go on to say, it wasn’t my parents that brought the hobby to us, we brought it to them. My father or any of my friend’s families even knew of such a hobby. I personally turned my entire neighborhood on to this fascination and everyone dove in. Sure, this was in the late 60’s. I was about 12 years old, but the only real technical distractions we had was the television. Most anything else technical was considered a hobby or educational in some form or another.

I've listened to all of you folk’s stories over the years and how some of you achieved having your kids involved in the hobby, and I salute you. I too have a daughter that I was certain would be a prime candidate for this rocketry stuff, only to find she was done with it after completing her first scratch build, which was also her very first rocket. It was designed easy enough for a beginner but her interest was elsewhere. A proper introduction is all you can offer. Whether they pick it up or not is their choice.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
 
This is a top down problem. I feel like if parents aren't passionate about stuff like this(or anything, really) their kids are unlikely to be either. It doesn't even have to be the same stuff.

I feel that's the issue right there. Parents (or more correctly, the guardians / older hose mates) seem to have less & less time for their kids, to the point that kids are being raised by the school & daycare centers. And, with the added level of protectionism we have these days, classes don't do "experiments", or kids don't go outside unless accompanied by an adult. So, their exposure to new things is thru a screen. (not to mention school budgets being slashed to no longer include the plethora of clubs & activities) Gone are the days of "doing stuff", riding bikes around the neighbourhood, being invited to a pick-up game at the local ball field.. Now it's supervised 'play dates' at a friends house..

I've been watching my friend's son grow up for the last 11 years. for him, the computer (and the gaming world) is #1. He's fading out of Lego. He comes to launches, and seems to have a good time (but does get easily distracted to other things).. he does things, but nothing yet has really 'stuck'..
 
I feel that's the issue right there. Parents (or more correctly, the guardians / older hose mates) seem to have less & less time for their kids, to the point that kids are being raised by the school & daycare centers. And, with the added level of protectionism we have these days, classes don't do "experiments", or kids don't go outside unless accompanied by an adult. So, their exposure to new things is thru a screen. (not to mention school budgets being slashed to no longer include the plethora of clubs & activities) Gone are the days of "doing stuff", riding bikes around the neighbourhood, being invited to a pick-up game at the local ball field.. Now it's supervised 'play dates' at a friends house..

I've been watching my friend's son grow up for the last 11 years. for him, the computer (and the gaming world) is #1. He's fading out of Lego. He comes to launches, and seems to have a good time (but does get easily distracted to other things).. he does things, but nothing yet has really 'stuck'..

One of the many reasons we homeschool our kids. They are limited to one hour of screen time a day. Outside activities (bike riding, skating, walking) are mandatory. Heck, my daughter even has a pogo stick! No smart phones in our family inventory.

Are we fools to think it will make a difference? Maybe. But at least we'll know we tried.
 
I feel that's the issue right there. Parents (or more correctly, the guardians / older hose mates) seem to have less & less time for their kids, to the point that kids are being raised by the school & daycare centers.

I beg to differ here.. studies are showing that parents these days are spending more time with their kids than since the mid 60s. I know it's easy to blame "screen time" as the reason kids aren't doing these hobbies, but the truth is- they're not cool anymore. Related- how many people in the 60's and 70s really thought rockets were cool? I bet it's less than we remember. I'm thinking it's more survivorship bias as opposed to "all kids played with rockets back then"?.

FWIW- I'm 41. I drag my kids to launches- not just for the launch, but sometimes they see interesting "outdoors" things at places like Bong. Not sure if it'll spark anything lifelong, or if they'll ever care. But that's ok with me.

My son is 9, and in third grade in school. He's learning things like Excel, word, powerpoint, etc. I have no idea what PPT presentations he is putting together, but truthfully, it's preparing him for a life in a world where many jobs (and most high paying ones) have some sort of computer interaction. Gone are the days where not knowing how to do something on a computer (or tablet, or smart phone) is considered normal. This is where the future is going, and we are doing our kids a disservice by keeping them from that experience/knowledge.

When I was my son's age- I was out on my bicycle most of the time. But I also remember several hobbies that never "stuck". Most people I meet in the real world don't have a driving passion towards a hobby- maybe there's some things they like to do, but not at the level that most of us have.
 
My sister-in-law runs a day-care. Parents drop their kids of as soon as they can. They then pick them up as late as they can. She even questioned one mum why she brought her kid over, when she knew the mother was staying home for the day.. (She also kept one kid & called the cops because the mother was obviously drunk (more so than usual..))

Schools are asked to look after kids, raise, them, but not discipline them, and then asked that they change their teaching methods, because 'little Johnny' is failing.. That it's the teacher's responsibility to ensure they kids education..

A friend of mine's parents changed their tune, when they discovered he could speak Chinese better then English (the housekeeper was Chinese, they lived in Hong Kong at the time)

Again, back to my friend. he drops his son off at school, and picks him up after work. No longer do kids ride to school in a school bus, or walk together in groups, let alone "adventure' on the way home..

Maybe my opinion would be different if I actually had kids..
 
I beg to differ here.. studies are showing that parents these days are spending more time with their kids than since the mid 60s. I know it's easy to blame "screen time" as the reason kids aren't doing these hobbies, but the truth is- they're not cool anymore. Related- how many people in the 60's and 70s really thought rockets were cool? I bet it's less than we remember. I'm thinking it's more survivorship bias as opposed to "all kids played with rockets back then"?..

Ding, Ding, Ding. Best answer yet in this thread.
 
There is certainly a financial component here. I never participated in rocketry when I was a kid, despite having a lifelong interest, simply because my parents said that we didn't have the money to do such things. I got involved when my own children were in Cub Scouts and I had a little more money of my own. Given the current economy, I'm certain that the cost of *any* hobby may well be prohibitive to many families. Although that certainly doesn't explain why no one learns how to sew despite the fact that knowing such things actually SAVE money.
 
Lots of good points made in here, but I'm not so sure that rockets aren't still 'cool'. As a slightly younger person in the hobby (29) I sort of thought most people our age wouldn't be interested or would think it was lame or whatever, but I've had several people at my office (within 10 years age wise) show a lot of interest. Started from pictures on my computer and now two have come to launches. I don't know if they'll stay interested or not, but it caught me off guard at least.

I think the main part that keeps our hobby small is simply that people don't know it exists! People think it ends in cub scouts or middle school with the baddest motor being a C6. Being a hobby with a lot of older people I doubt it gets the exposure online or on TV that some of the alternative hobbies do. Is this good or bad? Guess that's up to you.
 
In the musical hobby realm, the retail chain Guitar Center is under a big load of debt and facing similar prospects of bankruptcy, as are the instrument manufacturers Fender and Gibson.
 
Related- how many people in the 60's and 70s really thought rockets were cool? I bet it's less than we remember. I'm thinking it's more survivorship bias as opposed to "all kids played with rockets back then"?.

I can tell you... almost NOBODY. If you were in middle (we called it Junior High) or high school back then, model rockets *and* model airplanes were considered totally geeky and uncool. There were the same number or fewer (per capita), not more, hobby stores. Much less information available and fewer places to find it (i.e. the Library, if you had one). For instance, in a city of 80,000, there were a couple of local five&dimes that had a couple of shelves devoted to small model airplanes (and for awhile in 68-70, rockets). There was a tobacco shop that had a selection of model airplane kits, paint, balsa, fuel, and they'd special order engines or radio equipment. Ditto for a lumber supply company that had an attached art supply store catering to the university, though their supply was very sparse (maybe two airplane kits, 10-15 jars of dope, and a standard selection of balsa)
 
I think the main part that keeps our hobby small is simply that people don't know it exists! People think it ends in cub scouts or middle school with the baddest motor being a C6.

Totally agreed on that one. I knew absolutely nothing about HPR or any local rocketry groups, I flew some model rockets as a kid (80's), but it was just flying at the junior high at the top of my neighborhood with my dad, nothing organized (I have no idea if there were any local clubs back then, or how one would even go about finding them). Can't even remember what got me started (I did go to Space Camp and Space Academy, and I remember building/flying a model rocket at least at Space Camp, but I don't recall if that was my first) or why I stopped, or even where we got the few kits I built from. But I didn't really think of hobby rocketry again (not that I wasn't always interested in the Space Shuttle, satellite missions, the Mars rovers, etc). It wasn't until a co-worker was talking about XPRS and going out to Black Rock to fly and some of the big projects they do out there that the BAR in me started to surface, and after going to my first XPRS I was hooked. I even got my dad back into it, he got his L2 before I did, and has gone with me to the last 4 XPRS's and LDRS 2016 and we plan on going to LDRS 2018.

But I don't think either of us had any idea (I certainly didn't) that there were even larger motors, fancy electronics to fly, organizations/clubs dedicated to rocketry, etc. And while Discovery's coverage of LDRS was (I think) before I got back into it, it was too focused on the odd-rocs (which don't interest me as much as just sport rockets), so it wasn't particularly appealing to me to get involved in even if it was interesting to watch. Plus I don't think it gave any hints about TRA/NAR, that there are commercial HP motors and not just home-made ones, etc. So it certainly wasn't any sort of PSA for the hobby (and I'm sure it wasn't intended to be), more of a "watch these crazy people blow stuff up" show, or at least that's what I got out of it. :p
 
One of the many reasons we homeschool our kids. They are limited to one hour of screen time a day. Outside activities (bike riding, skating, walking) are mandatory. Heck, my daughter even has a pogo stick! No smart phones in our family inventory.

Are we fools to think it will make a difference? Maybe. But at least we'll know we tried.

I applaud your approach. Although I doubt my wife and I will ever voluntarily have kids, this is always what I imagined the best approach might be. Diverse and varied experiences in the real world, less focus on screens and technology in general.
 
In the musical hobby realm, the retail chain Guitar Center is under a big load of debt and facing similar prospects of bankruptcy, as are the instrument manufacturers Fender and Gibson.

I'm really amazed at how the guitar industry has changed over the last 20 years. Used to be there was an obvious gradient of low price, low quality up along a steady string of price points of increasingly higher price and higher quality. Now it seems like 95% is low price and low quality, then there's a huge gap until you hit "really high price, really high quality." Seems like most people now are either casual collectors who are mostly into a particular guitar for looks alone, or part of a very small minority who only care about the best construction, sound and performance.
 
I think a contributing factor, among many, is that many kids are BUSY compared to when I was a kid. I look at the difference between my time commitments growing up, to what my kids have, and it is crazy. We limit them to two extra curricular activities...which is light compared to many of our friends and their kids. Even with that "light" load. My 9 year old has the following every week on top of school:

- Homework: at least 3 nights a week, and way more than I had at his age
- Reading (at home) everyday for a minimum of 30 min (usually does 60)
- Practice violin (at home): 4 days, total of 2.5 h/wk on top of giving up his "work" time at school thereby making more homework.
- Swim practice: 5 days @ 1.5 h per practice (this sounds insane, until you meet my son...he is the theoretical maximum energy you can put in a human without them catching fire)
- Sunday School & Church

The 6 year old's schedule is almost as packed, except he only swims 3x1h, and has choir instead of violin...and these are "light" schedules for many of the kids I know.

We try to defend the unstructured time as much as possible, but there are only so many hours in the day. When we are all actually at home together we try to do things that all of us want to do, and Mom ain't into rockets and building stuff...she built a rocket in a real effort, but it just isn't her deal. As such, board games are our "hobby"/family time...Harry Potter Clue, Hogwarts Battle, and Exploding Kittens consume many hours around here. Just getting to a launch is almost impossible with swim meets, and other commitments, so rocketry is tough to pursue. When we do get a rare free weekend it competes with the other things the kids need exposure to, like the outdoors (and I don't mean a rocket field). I call it our "Why I love the CCC tour". We run off to go hiking in places where cell phones don't work...we try for at least two of these a year (Ozarks National Forest and Big Bend National Park were the 2017 destinations).

Screen time is also a less simple consideration than many think it is/make it out to be. Screens are a fact of life, and are only getting more important. That trendline won't change until Skynet becomes self aware, and renders the argument moot. I don't let my kids sit around and play games all the time. They get about 2-3 hours per week on their tablets to play Angry bird type games, but there is some value in that too. Getting to the point where interfacing with technology is second nature is increasingly important in the workplace, and again that arrow is only going one way. Knowing how top effectively communicate electronically, Powerpoint, etc. is a skill they will need, and I dearly wish my contemporaries and those older than me knew better how to do (Don't read me every word on the freakin slide!).

I don't know if this is really offered as an explanation, a defense, or a cry for help...it is what it is. Which is definitely a significantly busier pace than I grew up with, and I'm only 38.
 
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My wife is 65+ and her iPad is superglued to her hands. I love her for that. She's always been a modern Millie. We embrace technology and science. We don't lament what was... the 'good ole days' which often were not that good. This has nothing to do with age. You adapt, you compete, or you die.

Get over it. Our hobbies gave or give us great pride and satisfaction. But don't berate those who don't see it that way. I am 59 and love computer simulations. My Steam account (if you even know what that is) is huge. And I have made my living writing software for AOL, eHarmony, Riot Games, Dogvacay, and Steelhouse, all internet based software, for 25+ years. I adapted. I work with mostly people in their 20s and 30s. But I adapt to their communication, not tell them they are wrong. And I have my iPhone and use it ALL the time. It's an AMAZING tool.

Hobbico (tho I did not know they owned Estes) has alway been "You can buy better, but you can't pay more!". Futaba? Classic example. Horizon kicked their butt.

Be or be not. Do or do not.
But don't whine about days gone by. You go ahead and lamnent those days and leave the rest of us 'youngins' to move ahead. :)

I guess what I mean is I do not want to be an old fuddy duddy lamenting about days gone by. I remember the amazing sights, sounds, and smells of my riding a bike to a launch site and launch a big bertha. But that was then. I love my memories, but I live in today's world. And, for the most part, I am happy I do.
JMO
 
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My wife is 65+ and her iPad is superglued to her hands. I love her for that. She's always been a modern Millie. We embrace technology and science. We don't lament what was... the 'good ole days' which often were not that good. This has nothing to do with age. You adapt, you compete, or you die.

Get over it. Our hobbies gave or give us great pride and satisfaction. But don't berate those who don't see it that way. I am 59 and love computer simulations. My Steam account (if you even know what that is) is huge. And I have made my living writing software for AOL, eHarmony, Riot Games, Dogvacay, and Steelhouse, all internet based software, for 25+ years. I adapted. I work with mostly people in their 20s and 30s. But I adapt to their communication, not tell them they are wrong. And I have my iPhone and use it ALL the time. It's an AMAZING tool.

Hobbico (tho I did not know they owned Estes) has alway been "You can buy better, but you can't pay more!". Futaba? Classic example. Horizon kicked their butt.

Be or be not. Do or do not.
But don't whine about days gone by. You go ahead and lamnent those days and leave the rest of us 'youngins' to move ahead. :)

I guess what I mean is I do not want to be an old fuddy duddy lamenting about days gone by. I remember the amazing sights, sounds, and smells of my riding a bike to a launch site and launch a big bertha. But that was then. I love my memories, but I live in today's world. And, for the most part, I am happy I do.
JMO
Do you have more unbuilt kits, or more unplayed Steam items? Darn sales bundles!
 
My son is 9, and in third grade in school. He's learning things like Excel, word, powerpoint, etc. I have no idea what PPT presentations he is putting together, but truthfully, it's preparing him for a life in a world where many jobs (and most high paying ones) have some sort of computer interaction.

I'm not sure that getting stuck in a Microsoft ecosystem is the best thing for anybody's future...when I was 9 I was out running around and playing in the neighborhood with other kids...but when I was 11 or 12, we got a TRS-80 computer, and I was banging in BASIC programs so I could play games like Lunar Lander, or anything, since there really wasn't any ways to play a game on a computer unless you punched in the program on your own.

My $0.02...people just want convenience, and if you have to work at something, vs. buy something pre-built or almost built, they are going to go that way. I also remember when you used to be able to buy Guillow models and plastic models at Sears or other department stores (anybody remember Two Guys?). It is really hard to get into modeling now, of any sort, and if you don't start something at an early age I don't see many people picking it up at a later age (hard to be a BAR if you were never a rocketeer in the first place).

The other thing I notice is, kids aren't playing around with each other at all in spontaneous, unsupervised play...everything seems to be organized activities run by adults, and I wonder if kids are losing their ability to make their own choices/decisions and hash things out with their peers, on their own.
 
.but when I was 11 or 12, we got a TRS-80 computer.

Which one? I had a model 100.

I hear what you're saying- I was running Linux in college in 94. However, it's not just the "learning the tools" as much as learning the mindset. Maybe Word isn't the most critical for kids, but word processing is a basic skill they should know.
 
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