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I was just about the make the same point. ;)

"Estes Industries, a division of Aurora Flight Sciences."

Great a company in high end aerospace now getting into the hobby business. This doesn't look good.

Interesting is how Horizon didn't take over the Estes division. For those not in the business, Horizon is a large hobby distributor and deals with hobby stores in addition to the retail market. Estes, and Revell, would have been a great fit.

But these deals are still subject to the auction on Wednesday as they are stalking-horse bids - the current accepted minimum bid.
 
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Hmmm...kind of an interesting turn of events. I’m sure the guaranteed fee if another company bids higher will cover the due diligence costs that Aurora incurred but certainly a bit of a goodwill gesture by John Langford to even do this. And if Aurora Flight Sciences wins the bid? Then Estes becomes a division af an actual aerospace company! Now that’s kinda cool :cool:
 
Hmmm...kind of an interesting turn of events. I’m sure the guaranteed fee if another company bids higher will cover the due diligence costs that Aurora incurred but certainly a bit of a goodwill gesture by John Langford to even do this. And if Aurora Flight Sciences wins the bid? Then Estes becomes a division af an actual aerospace company! Now that’s kinda cool��

I was just being funny about the "division of" comment. I suspect it's an LLC with interested individuals willing to put up 5% collateral for the pre-auction bid arrangement.
 
I was just being funny about the "division of" comment. I suspect it's an LLC with interested individuals willing to put up 5% collateral for the pre-auction bid arrangement.
LOL! I know just enough about financial things to do semi-intelligent web searches - but if whomever/whatever it is connected to Aurora end up owning Estes, in my mind, I’m building and flying aerospace vehicles from a company with real rocket scientists :wink:
 
For those of us less familiar with the people involved who is Langford?

John Langford is a longtime rocketeer. Leo's post has some links to vintage material. His son Ellis' name is on the Estes Industries LLC document posted earlier.
 
In fact John Langford (and Ellis) are still active. John Langford will be running one of the two ranges at the TARC finals this year. Both of them have been involved in the NAR/Museum of Flight effort in recent years as well.

Next week will be very interesting....and it could turn out to be very good for us and Estes Industries. One can hope, anyway.
 
There's nothing in the public documents that indicated Aurora is involved in any way. Recall that Aurora was acquired by Boeing last year.

Re-read the thread. I mentioned Aurora as a funny extrapolation due to the Langfords being involved in the bid. Of course AFS/Boeing wouldn't care about little old Estes. I thought that would be obvious! But, I'm sure the success of Aurora has made available the resources for this bid, indirectly.

John Langford has a long history of deep interest in model rocketry, rocket competition, and promoting the NAR and the hobby. John was part of the MIT rocket club back in the 70's. His sons Ellis and Fritz grew up competing at NAR contests and NARAM, and then FAI/Internats. I hope the bid for Estes goes through and they are successful with the venture! This would be far better than being bought by disinterested toy-industry hacks that have nearly killed it in the past.
 
...Why not?
I don't know the Langfords, but they have no other connections in the hobby industry other than being flyers at events. They live in another state. They would have no other products to sell other than Estes.

For Horizon to pass up Estes says a lot. They passed up the number one supplier worldwide of hobby rocketry.

I wish the Langfords well.
 
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I don't know the Langfords, but they have no other connections in the hobby industry other than being flyers at events. They live in another state. They would have no other products to sell other than Estes.

For Horizon to pass up Estes says a lot. They passed up the number one supplier worldwide of hobby rocketry.

I wish the Langfords well.

I’ve known John since we were 12 and 13, members of the old MASER section in Atlanta, 1970. John knows all the significant players in the hobby. John and Ellis are not just flyers at events. If they win the bid I’m certain they’ll not only have the best interests of the hobby in mind, but the business discipline as well to keep Estes well.


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Wow, the Langfords owning Estes.

Those of us rocketeers who dreamed that if only they had the money, they'd buy Estes? Well, looks like one of us DID. :) And even better, a rocketeer who knows HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS. Most of the rest of us daydreamers would not have much more of a clue business-wise other than "Let Mary Roberts do her thing", and the same for John Boren (not intending to slight any of the other valuable members of the Estes team).

John Langford has been an NAR member since the late 1960's, was national champion in A & B Div a few times, also as a team with Bob Biedron. Also competed at several WSMC's and has been US Team manager many years.

From: https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/fai-spacemodeling/past-u-s-teams/2016-team/

In this photo of the US Team at the 2016 WSMC, John is at the lower left, Ellis Langford behind him, James Duffy back row behind and to the right of Ellis. I'm at the top right.

2016_US_Team-1024x631.jpg


Also a member of the MIT Rocket Society in the 1970's.

He was deeply involved with the Daedalus project, a human-powered aircraft that flew from Crete to Greece in 1988 (some other MIT grads were also involved such as Bob Parks and "Guppy" Youngren).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Daedalus

[video=youtube;4pbKp7ufwns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pbKp7ufwns[/video]

IIRC, John's work on that project led to the creation of Aurora Flight Services, which has employed some well known rocketeers (Bob Parks, Greg Stewart, Ellis Langford among them), though Bob Parks works elsewhere now.

The above are just examples.

I first met John Langford at the NGRM-71 regional meet near Atlanta in 1971, my first contest. I'd read about how well he'd done at NARAM the previous year. This was the first time I met any people outside of the Birmingham area who flew rockets, or were NAR members (or were in Model Rocketry Magazine). Think I first met Roy at that one too. I was just a total newbie nobody with a lot of contest models that did not fly well. :)

T1x1SZd.jpg



BTW - photo of Ellis 18 years ago, with his Ariane S7 scale model, at the 2000 WSMC. He flew on the US Junior Team. IIRC the US JR Team won a Bronze medal in S7 that year. Don't ask "What kit did he build?", it was scratch.

EllisS7Pose.JPG
 
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Wow, the Langfords owning Estes.

Those of us rocketeers who dreamed that if only they had the money, they'd buy Estes? Well, one of us DID. :)

John Langford has been an NAR member since the late 1960's, was national champion in A & B Div a few times, also as a team with Bob Biedron. Also competed at several WSMC's and has been US Team manager many years.

From:
2016-team


In this photo of the US Team at the 2016 WSMC, John is at the lower left, Ellis Langford behind him, James Duffy back row behind and to the right of Ellis. I'm at the top right.

2016_US_Team-1024x631.jpg


Also a member of the MIT Rocket Society in the 1970's.

He was deeply involved with the Daedalus project, a human-powered aircraft that flew from Crete to Greece in 1988 (some other MIT grads were also involved such as Bob Parks and "Guppy" Youngren).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Daedalus

[video=youtube;4pbKp7ufwns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pbKp7ufwns[/video]

IIRC, John's work on that project led to the creation of Aurora Flight Services, which has employed some well known rocketeers (Bob Parks, Greg Stewart, Ellis Langford among them), though Bob Parks works elsewhere now.

The above are just examples.

I first met John Langford at the NGRM-71 regional meet near Atlanta in 1971, my first contest. I'd read about how well he'd done at NARAM the previous year. This was the first time I met any people outside of the Birmingham area who flew rockets, or were NAR members (or were in Model Rocketry Magazine). Think I first met Roy at that one too. I was just a total newbie nobody with a lot of contest models that did not fly well. :)

T1x1SZd.jpg
I dont think its actually happened yet, its just a bid so far, if I understand correctly.
 
No, but it would have contributed to the health of AT's business, which I referenced above.
Bought AT 38/480 instead of CTI. I still respect CTI 24 and 29. I will not buy their 38.
 
Great a company in high end aerospace now getting into the hobby business. This doesn't look good.

Interesting is how Horizon didn't take over the Estes division. For those not in the business, Horizon is a large hobby distributor and deals with hobby stores in addition to the retail market. Estes, and Revell, would have been a great fit.

But these deals are still subject to the auction on Wednesday as they are stalking-horse bids - the current accepted minimum bid.

Looking forward to the next chapter in the Estes saga.

"Horizon is a large hobby distributor and deals with hobby stores in addition to the retail market". Angelo, is it fair to say this is an accurate description of what Hobbico was ? How do you think Horizon might handle Estes or Revell differently than what Hobbico did given the chance ?



The Estes Industries, LLC Stalking Horse agreement: https://upshotservices.s3.amazonaws...d7f7/405d98f4-4d9e-499a-aaa0-6040b2d79796.pdf

A lot of legalese but I found the current employees list on page 183/4 interesting. Wishing the best for those folks.
 
I first met John Langford at the NGRM-71 regional meet near Atlanta in 1971, my first contest. I'd read about how well he'd done at NARAM the previous year. This was the first time I met any people outside of the Birmingham area who flew rockets, or were NAR members (or were in Model Rocketry Magazine). Think I first met Roy at that one too. I was just a total newbie nobody with a lot of contest models that did not fly well. :)

T1x1SZd.jpg

Also in that photo are Michael Myrick (kid standing at the right with black shorts and white shirt) and Willard Arbour "Willard at 96Rock" (in center with left arm up and hand over his face). I don't believe I'm in that picture.
 
Looking forward to the next chapter in the Estes saga.

"Horizon is a large hobby distributor and deals with hobby stores in addition to the retail market". Angelo, is it fair to say this is an accurate description of what Hobbico was ? How do you think Horizon might handle Estes or Revell differently than what Hobbico did given the chance ?



The Estes Industries, LLC Stalking Horse agreement: https://upshotservices.s3.amazonaws...d7f7/405d98f4-4d9e-499a-aaa0-6040b2d79796.pdf

A lot of legalese but I found the current employees list on page 183/4 interesting. Wishing the best for those folks.

Horizon and Hobbico do the same thing. They're even located in the same town. Horizon has done a much better job marketing their brands than Hobbico.
 
$6M is probably a fair price considering their performance over the past two years. It's great that Estes is going to be owned by people that are invested in the hobby, instead of just invested in $$$.
 
Looking forward to the next chapter in the Estes saga.

"Horizon is a large hobby distributor and deals with hobby stores in addition to the retail market". Angelo, is it fair to say this is an accurate description of what Hobbico was ? How do you think Horizon might handle Estes or Revell differently than what Hobbico did given the chance ?.

I didn't imply Hobbico did a bad job with Estes and Horizon will do a better one. I never dealt with Hobbico but did deal with Horizon and found them to be a professional company with a wide range of products.

They did turn down Estes - and the Revell and Revell Germany plastic model kit lines. As a distributor to retail stores, it would be another product to sell.

I hope that they didn't feel it would be a bad investment decision to take over the lines.
 
$6M is probably a fair price considering their performance over the past two years.

$6M is a low-ball for a profitable company that pulled $11.3 in annual sales the previous calendar year. Market cap inline with annual sales is closer to the norm, but this is a niche market micro-cap, and we are looking at a stalking-horse bid, so $6M is just the floor.

Either way - it's good news that Estes is generating interest from people who may be interested in it as a standalone business vs. a line-item in a portfolio of online catalog sales (e.g.: Hobico, Horizon, etc).

a
 
And if someone else wins the auction, they make a tidy $180k. (minus the legal expenses). Not a bad deal.
 
I didn't imply Hobbico did a bad job with Estes and Horizon will do a better one. I never dealt with Hobbico but did deal with Horizon and found them to be a professional company with a wide range of products.

They did turn down Estes - and the Revell and Revell Germany plastic model kit lines. As a distributor to retail stores, it would be another product to sell.

I hope that they didn't feel it would be a bad investment decision to take over the lines.

It's hard not to geek-out over the prospect of a rocketeer buying and running the company that introduced you to the hobby. I appreciate the opinion and perspective of someone who's in the retail hobby business. I think the new owners of Estes, however passionate, will have to deal with the hard business challenges that put their former parent company in this situation. Interesting times ahead.
 
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