Estes Nike Smoke Build

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Mendal

Well-Known Member
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
257
Reaction score
40
I’ve had this Estes Nike Smoke kit on my build pile and I thought it was time to give it some consideration. I'm not really sure how quickly this build will go as I've decided a stock build was not going to cut it for this one. I tried to talk myself into building it stock as it is really just a nice looking kit. But the more I looked at the rocket the more it screamed to be modded.


The stock motor mount is a 29mm, that's nice, but a 38mm would be so much cooler!






Centering Rings/Motor Mount:
I had a PML 38mm MMT laying around waiting to be used, I liked the fin lock system on the original kit but it’s going to need some rework for a 38mm tube. I drew up some centering rings and cut them from 3/32 G10 on my router just to see how feasible this whole idea is.
The original Estes rings were pretty loose so I added a bit to these. As a result it took a bit of sanding to get them to fit but now I have a set that fits perfect.
I placed notches in the forward centering ring to allow for the attachment of a Kevlar shock.
IMG_4684.pngIMG_4685.pngIMG_4688.png



Fins:
I like the fins that came with it, I have a few doubts, I need to get them assembled to see how rigid they are. With the 38mm motor the fin tabs will need to be trimmed, however if they are not stiff enough I may build some new fins with a G10 core. One of the other options is to do a fiberglass tip to tip. I was looking earlier today at paint schemes other than the standard White/Yellow/Red scheme.
So the first step was to go ahead and assemble the fins and see how they come out. I noticed the edges come together well, but have some gaps, I decided to tape along the edges of the fin and then use binder clips to clamp the edges. The tape helps to protect from scratches and gives the clips a little more bite.
IMG_4686 (2).pngIMG_4687.png

Body Tube:
The tube is very nice, the spirals are barely noticeable, that being said I think it needs a little more to hold up to the 38mm motor. I’m thinking about a couple wraps of fiberglass on the body which will mean peeling the glassine. This would actually be my first attempt at glassing a tube…

Nosecone:
The nosecone on this thing is huge, I would like to turn this into an AV Bay. Adding electronics to the nose will move some weight forward and help to offset the larger motor. The one thing I really need to do is build out the open rocket model, so I can get a better idea of where exactly I sit and how high this might fly. I will most likely fly this as a dual deployment of some kind. It would be a shame for me to build a rocket and not put in some of my Rocket Junkie charge wells (sorry shameless plug).
3-gACW-400x250.jpg


That's the start, I'll update the build as I progress.

Thanks
Mendal
 
Have you considered getting some more couplers and doubling the wall thickness internally? May shave some weight and be less labor intensive than fiberglassing.
 
Have you considered getting some more couplers and doubling the wall thickness internally? May shave some weight and be less labor intensive than fiberglassing.

To be honest, no I hadn’t considered that as a possibility... yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I hadn't put much thought on the idea either until watching a recent thread by Ecayemburg where he's using full length couplers to strengthen a K-L rocket into the N range sans fiberglass (while still being light enough for K's)
 
So I was sitting down at the bench the other night trying to decide what direction I wanted to go with the body tube. Wouldn't you know it, the glassine just fell off...

So glassing the tube it is!

I want to stop at this point and make sure I call out to TFish, without his guidance via his youtube videos, I'm not sure I could have figured this out as easily. Thank you TFish for the awesome series of videos on composites. If you have not seen his videos and have thought at all about fiberglass, they are worth watching. I would also recommend John Coker's videos as well.

I actually goofed a little and peeled the tube a bit deeper then I meant to around the fin can section. I cut it clean where the tip of the leading edge of the fin meets the body and I added 2 wraps of 4 oz cloth there prior to adding the rest of the tube. I ended up with a total of 4 wraps in the fin can area and 2 on the rest of the body.

I used the stock centering rings taped inside the tube to help ensure it holds its shape during the glassing process and it allowed me to use a PVC pipe as my "spit". I wish I had done a little better job securing the tube to the spit as holding the tube in place as I worked on it would have been easier if the tube did not spin freely as I worked on it.

IMG_4713.png
Sorry it was difficult to take photos during the process of glassing the tube. This is all the glass wet out prior to wrapping with peel ply.
IMG_4715.png
Peel ply applied. The one thing I learned is I started the process a little late in the evening, I would have been better to start the process earlier so I could pull the peel ply and trim the glass while it was still green. As it was I went to bed and got up early. I set this up in my heated garage so it was cooler and slowed the cure a bit. The glass was still cutable but stiffer then I would have liked.
IMG_4729.pngIMG_4730.pngIMG_4732.pngIMG_4733.png
The tube after the peel ply was pulled and the glass trimmed. It will requires some sanding and filing to clean up edges.

The Peel ply left a very good finish on the tube. It will require a little sanding and filling to get it ready for paint. One thing I was wondering to anyone that has experience is, has anyone ever tried wrapping bleeder material over the peel ply and then shrink wrapping to help draw out excess epoxy and add compression much like a vacuum bag.

Mendal
 
I have done the bleeder over the peelnply and wrapped with Saran wrap then heated it with a heatgun, it worked fairly well. You have to be careful not to compress the tube much as the wrap shrinks, I use some very thick CR's made from 2x6's that I space closely inside the tube.
 
Time for an update. There has been quite a bit of work done, but have not had time to post.

After fiber glassing the tube I started building the Motor mount.

IMG_0001.png
The forward centering ring was glued in place along with the shock cord attachment harness. The loop of the harness will extend an inch or so past the end of the body tube. The middle CR was also attached.
IMG_0004.png
This allow me to figure out exactly how much I needed to shorten the fin tabs given the new 38mm Motor Tube.
IMG_0005.pngIMG_0006(1).png
Motor Mount glued in and fins attached. Rear CR was left out to allow for internal fillets.
IMG_0007.pngIMG_0008.png
Fins masked off and external fillets applied. I wanted to keep them pretty low profile a I am very happy with how they turned out.
 
Nice job on the fins :)

Thank you! I actually used a Ball point pen (Tube) as the pull tool.

Since the fillets were small I was actually able to do all of them in one shot with no sag.
Thais also allowed me to work the leading and trailing edges, I find this the most difficult area when only doing one side of a fin at a time.
 
That's going to be a strong tube! What are you going to do to fill/smooth the surface?

And what kind of motors are you thinking to push this thing? Looks like it'll take a lot more than a G, and the fins will be the limiter!
 
That's going to be a strong tube! What are you going to do to fill/smooth the surface?

And what kind of motors are you thinking to push this thing? Looks like it'll take a lot more than a G, and the fins will be the limiter!

The surface finish was in general pretty good, the peel ply really left a nice finish. Next time I would probably try to do a better job wetting out the peel ply. I also might try putting a layer of breather material and then wrapping the tube with stretch wrap to apply some pressure to draw the epoxy out into the peel ply layer. I did fill some defects with Tamiya putty. I did about 4 coats if filler primer, wet sanding between coats. This filled most of the rest of the issues I had with the surface, Is it perfect? no but I feel like its good enough and I'm pretty happy with it. I'll post some photos soon.
 
The surface finish was in general pretty good, the peel ply really left a nice finish. Next time I would probably try to do a better job wetting out the peel ply. I also might try putting a layer of breather material and then wrapping the tube with stretch wrap to apply some pressure to draw the epoxy out into the peel ply layer. I did fill some defects with Tamiya putty. I did about 4 coats if filler primer, wet sanding between coats. This filled most of the rest of the issues I had with the surface, Is it perfect? no but I feel like its good enough and I'm pretty happy with it. I'll post some photos soon.
If you decide at some point to try the breather and stretch wrap technique be very very careful ( heard in Elmer Fudd voice) its easy to get a wrinkle in the finish if the wrap is too tight. I just wrinkled two tubes last weekend.
 
If you decide at some point to try the breather and stretch wrap technique be very very careful ( heard in Elmer Fudd voice) its easy to get a wrinkle in the finish if the wrap is too tight. I just wrinkled two tubes last weekend.

That is something I'm worried about. when I did this tube my epoxy was starting to get a little stiff towards the end, I really only got one good wrap of peel ply on the tube. I think if I could get 2 full wraps that are well wetted out with maybe some thinned epoxy, adding pressure might not be needed.
 
That is something I'm worried about. when I did this tube my epoxy was starting to get a little stiff towards the end, I really only got one good wrap of peel ply on the tube. I think if I could get 2 full wraps that are well wetted out with maybe some thinned epoxy, adding pressure might not be needed.
What epoxy are you using?
 
Pressure really isn't needed on cardboard tubes unless you are trying to minimize the excess epoxy. As for the epoxy I seem to hear that West is prone to kicking if mixed in taller narrow containers like Solo/Dixie cups. I use US Composites 635 with medium hardener ( mainly because its good stuff and much cheaper than West and Aeropoxy, and it has similar properties) and have yet to have issues with kicking, however most times I mix less than 8 ozs, and use plastic food service tubs for mixing ( short wide tubs).
 
Pressure really isn't needed on cardboard tubes unless you are trying to minimize the excess epoxy. As for the epoxy I seem to hear that West is prone to kicking if mixed in taller narrow containers like Solo/Dixie cups. I use US Composites 635 with medium hardener ( mainly because its good stuff and much cheaper than West and Aeropoxy, and it has similar properties) and have yet to have issues with kicking, however most times I mix less than 8 ozs, and use plastic food service tubs for mixing ( short wide tubs).

Any liquid epoxy will kick if mixed in deep containers and not used immediately. I mixed up a paper hot drink cup full (8 oz.) of Aeropoxy once and used it somewhat quickly and it still kicked. In that instance it worked to my advantage because it cured much faster than normal, but if it had been in a tall plastic cup, extremely hot epoxy would have melted the bottom of the cup out and my floor would be epoxy coated. If I’m laminating where I need a good quantity, such as a cup to a pint, t’s easier to mix in a tall container such as a mason jar or hot drink cup (paper, not coated or insulated), but now I pour into a shallow container once I’ve mixed it.


Steve Shannon
 
I'm guessing the shallow container lets it spread and dissipate more reaction heat through surface area? (instead of the reaction heat staying in the material and accelerating the cure)
 
Pressure really isn't needed on cardboard tubes unless you are trying to minimize the excess epoxy. As for the epoxy I seem to hear that West is prone to kicking if mixed in taller narrow containers like Solo/Dixie cups. I use US Composites 635 with medium hardener ( mainly because its good stuff and much cheaper than West and Aeropoxy, and it has similar properties) and have yet to have issues with kicking, however most times I mix less than 8 ozs, and use plastic food service tubs for mixing ( short wide tubs).

Where do you buy the US Composites 635 from?
 
Direct from US Composites website, they also sell their 150 bonding epoxy and a two part expanding foam. I like the 635 resin for laminating and with fillers I use it for other stuff as well like fillets. They also carry cabosil, phenolic micro balloons, milled glass, and iirc some of the WEST epoxy amendments.

https://www.uscomposites.com/
 
Last edited:
Time to update again:
IMG_0016.png
I setup my paint booth and got ready for what was a marathon of primer. 4 coats of primer, wet sanding in between and the surface was ready for paint. I really went back and forth on how to paint it, in the end I decided to go with the traditional white.

IMG_0035.png
White Body, Red and Yellow fins
IMG_0040.jpg
I also 3D printed some rail button stand offs since the Nosecone is larger then the body tube.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0040.jpg
    IMG_0040.jpg
    87.9 KB · Views: 61
AV Bay... I said I wanted to turn this into a dual depoly rocket.

It has really taken some thinking. I started by cutting off all but an inch of the nosecone.
IMG_0014.png
After some careful measurements, I drew up and printed the NC coupler.
IMG_0013(1).png
This is stepped to insert into the Nosecone.
IMG_0010(1).png
Next I cut out the stepped bulkheads from .093" G10 on the router. The great part about cutting these on the cnc router, is that I can layout all my holes and have them drilled in perfectly.

The plan WAS originally to shear pin the coupler to the body and nosecone. After I started to assemble the AV Bay due to its weight I realized it might put the whole thing at risk for sliding back into the body tube during boost.
IMG_0060.png
The solution, I Printed a "shelf ring" that will be epoxied into the body tube to support the AV Bay during boost.
IMG_0061.png
The shelf ring is indexed to accept a key way that is attached to the aft bulkhead. This will help my vent holes lineup.


One thing I'm debating... The Kit came with a water slide decal, I'm thinking of ordering a decal from Stickershock. I still plan to Clear coat this after I add the decal, I just think the Sticker Shock will come out better in the long run as the clear edges of the water slide decal might show under the clear coat.

Next up is figuring out how to create a anchor point for the shock cord in the nose.
 
Just now catching up on this, I got lost with all the talk of peel ply and what not.

Nice work. Looks like you got a good handle on 3d printing that's for sure.
Your rail button standoffs, details please. I keep forgetting I need something for my Viper.

I use US Composites A LOT. I have trouble with their thin (635?) getting air bubbles when I use it with a filler for fillets though.
 
Just now catching up on this, I got lost with all the talk of peel ply and what not.

Nice work. Looks like you got a good handle on 3d printing that's for sure.
Your rail button standoffs, details please. I keep forgetting I need something for my Viper.

I use US Composites A LOT. I have trouble with their thin (635?) getting air bubbles when I use it with a filler for fillets though.

As far as the fiberglass I highly suggest you check out youtube videos by Tfish.

The rail button standoffs are concentric to the body tube so they have a nice form fit.
IMG_0041.png
The stand off the button enough to allow the rail to clear the nosecone.
 
Ahh. I see. I won't be able to use a standard rail button for the aft button. I can't screw into the body because it is pretty much minimum diameter down there. I have some conformal guides but not sure if they will clear the front body tube. Guess I need to try it before I make a big deal out of it.
 
Ahh. I see. I won't be able to use a standard rail button for the aft button. I can't screw into the body because it is pretty much minimum diameter down there. I have some conformal guides but not sure if they will clear the front body tube. Guess I need to try it before I make a big deal out of it.

shoot me a pm with the tube diameter and the standoff distance. I think I could print a conformal stand-off with enough surface area to glue on and then thread the button into it.
 
Back
Top