MAC Performance - Black Fly Upscale Survey Poll + Build Thread

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Black Fly Upscale

  • 38mm MMT / 3" diameter

  • 54mm MMT / 4" diameter

  • Both!

  • None, I like my original 29mm Black Fly just fine.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Got my rather customized 4" Blackfly on Friday. Had him switch out the printed tailcone for an Aeropack, and the plastic nose for a fiberglass one. All Mike's parts look great, as usual. Haven't checked fin fit or anything yet, but so far so good...

Once we got what I wanted hammered out he shipped very quickly. The delay compared to everyone else's was all on me.
 
Had him switch out the printed tailcone for an Aeropack

Hmmm I never thought of that, of course with the 4" and 3" BlackFlies the Aeropack tailcone is an option. Please mock it up and snap some pics for comparison to the 3d printed one. I have a 3" 54mm on my Darkstar and I like it. More importantly it fits CTI, AT and Loki hardware, so I may just follow your lead as I have to place an order with Mike for some fin guides.
 
Got my rather customized 4" Blackfly on Friday. Had him switch out the printed tailcone for an Aeropack, and the plastic nose for a fiberglass one. All Mike's parts look great, as usual. Haven't checked fin fit or anything yet, but so far so good...

I kept the printed tail cone and opted for the fiberglass nose cone, as my standard electronics package will slip right in with minor changes.
 
Hmmm I never thought of that, of course with the 4" and 3" BlackFlies the Aeropack tailcone is an option. Please mock it up and snap some pics for comparison to the 3d printed one. I have a 3" 54mm on my Darkstar and I like it. More importantly it fits CTI, AT and Loki hardware, so I may just follow your lead as I have to place an order with Mike for some fin guides.

Mike, keep in mind that the printed tailcone is simply scaled from the one used on the 54mm Blackfly. Now, the 54mm sized rocket used that cone design because it was already available, but that was a fall-back after the Aeropack boat tail retainer that you originally intended to use turned out to be non-existent in that size. So, in essence, a 4" Fly with a boattail retainer cone would more true to your original design intent if I understand things correctly. However, I've come to rather like the proportions of the shorter, wider tailcone and feel that the elongated shape of the spin-on cone changes the proportions in a way I don't like. I mocked up something similar myself...
 
My current infestation. Sure hope it stops here. Really liking the metallic charcoal paint!

IMG_4155.jpgIMG_4151.jpgIMG_4147.jpgIMG_4145.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
I can't help myself, just contemplating a couple of motor hardware choices :D

25454971857_eee5ee574e_b.jpg


I admit I have a problem

26454866478_d8423561b2_b.jpg


But it should work out fine

 
My 4” is on order. Added an altimeter bay and extra piece of airframe for the first 4” DD Black Fly according to mike. She’ll be a good bit longer than normal but I’m ok with that! Can’t wait to get her started!


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
View attachment 338019View attachment 338020

3” finish paint is Rustoleum Metallic Charcoal.

Used a chunk of aluminum angle to get decals straight.

I’ll get a nicer, outside (natural light) pictures of these soon enough, but had to share. These decals really make the rocket, the BF font looks great.



Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
Man I'm loving this build.

Reminds me of the old Public Enemy Ultra Fatboy's

I want one.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
.........Oh, did I mention we have a new 4" kit coming out for the "Missile Collector Series" in a couple weeks?
Google Pluto/SLAM

Holy Toledo! :eyepop: That is a totally awesome missile. :drool:

Adding it to my 2018 Christmas Wish List...
 
Updated family photo.

Biggest here is the 3”. Brown is a 29mm stretch of the original and awaiting an I200W. Black is the original 54. Baby is a BT-60 downscale. 4” is under construction in the garage.

IMG_4469.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Black Fly 3" update...

Add the AeroTech H148R to the list of perfect class 1 motors for this kit, though I still prefer the flame on the H130W. I'm using a tiny 8" spherachute drogue on the NC and a JLCR on a 42" main which keep things in bounds, and almost in the parking lot.

If the weather cooperates for NCR this weekend at Pawnee NG I'll send it up on an I211W or I180W.

29955867_10160405323470193_156425226_o.jpg

30125369_10160405324020193_1461281826_o.jpg

45027a15-f842-42b0-be00-7a9ddbe01321-o.jpg

0e3b0295-8ceb-4e23-b593-7e95ffa6523b-o.jpg

49a2975f-d243-48d2-bcc4-f0076d77bd53-o.jpg
 
Last edited:
Black Fly 3" update...

Add the AeroTech H148R to the list of perfect class 1 motors for this kit, though I still prefer the flame on the H130W. I'm using a tiny 8" spherachute drogue on the NC and a JLCR on a 42" main which keep things in bounds, and almost in the parking lot.

If the weather cooperates for NCR this weekend at Pawnee NG I'll send it up on an I211W or I180W.

I just love the smile on your son's face, great shot!
 
BF3” on an I180W to 3,063’ AGL. Per MPitfield’s advice, I’ve been using a tiny custom drogue Spherachute on the heavy nose cone to keep it above the booster until the JLCR releases, works great!

Hard to beat this flame to rocket ratio, but I’m sure gonna try!

IMG_4926.jpg

IMG_4942.jpg

IMG_4921.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Last edited:
BF3” on an I180W to 3,063’ AGL. Per MPitfield’s advice, I’ve been using a tiny custom drogue Spherachute on the heavy nose cone to keep it above the booster until the JLCR releases, works great!

Glad to hear you got it dialed in.

Hard to beat this flame to rocket ratio, but I’m sure gonna try!

View attachment 342455

View attachment 342457

View attachment 342456

I wonder what the flame to rocket ratio would be on an AT I600. If you ever try that motor just make sure you get the long delay as it comes with a Medium or 10 second delay and I am guessing that it would need all of 14 seconds. Here is a link to the elusive Long or 14 second delay for that motor https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/aerotech-38mm-complete-reload-delay-kit-crdk38-04-1714.html

Also don't blink when they press the go button.
 
The swarm is complete!

The 4" upscale had its maiden flight this morning on a J540R to 6,925'. Dry weight on the 4" with HED e-bay holding redundant altimeters and MW T3 was 3,285g. 1.2cal stability with the J540.

I usually see good agreement between OpenRocket and reality. This flight simmed to 6,400' with polished surface finish and airfoiled fins, yet flew 500' higher...

Youtube video (2 ground angles, no on board):



4inBF_J540R.JPG 4in_BF_and_original.JPG swarm.JPG
 
The swarm is complete!

The 4" upscale had its maiden flight this morning on a J540R to 6,925'. Dry weight on the 4" with HED e-bay holding redundant altimeters and MW T3 was 3,285g. 1.2cal stability with the J540.

I usually see good agreement between OpenRocket and reality. This flight simmed to 6,400' with polished surface finish and airfoiled fins, yet flew 500' higher...

Youtube video (2 ground angles, no on board):


George, fantastic flight...man she flew straight. I am not sure if anyone was able to grab any video of Mikes 6" BlackFly flight from URRF but it was a really nice straight flight as well. Can you post some detailed pics of your HED setup? I am just finishing up my 4" and any tips are appreciated.
 
The swarm is complete!

The 4" upscale had its maiden flight this morning on a J540R to 6,925'. Dry weight on the 4" with HED e-bay holding redundant altimeters and MW T3 was 3,285g. 1.2cal stability with the J540.

Congrats on raising a beautiful swarm!

Can't wait to finish my 3" BF.
 
George, fantastic flight...man she flew straight. I am not sure if anyone was able to grab any video of Mikes 6" BlackFly flight from URRF but it was a really nice straight flight as well. Can you post some detailed pics of your HED setup? I am just finishing up my 4" and any tips are appreciated.

Thanks, Michael.

My forward bulkhead is an APE inspired design with integral charge cups that I made myself. This bulkhead and sled was originally designed for my AMW FiberMax with the goal of holding just a single MW RRC3 and T3.

I was pleased to find the bulkhead also slipped into MAC phenolic couplers with just a little sanding. Seeing the ejection delays I needed for big K motors, I decided to upgrade the sled to hold a second altimeter since motor eject backup was out.

It now holds two 9Vs to run altimeters, a 600mAh Lipo for the T3 tracker, and 3 screw switches 120 degrees apart which I arm with a Wera precision PH #00 screw driver through the vent band holes (not just any screw driver can poke in there!)

I have the coupler engaged ~1.75" in the WM NC. I'm using 1.2gr for the NC main, this is packed in a nitrile glove tip, stuffed in the integral charge cup. Big SS eye nut on the NC tip screw for harness attachment. 18' of MAC 1/4", 3,000lb kevlar harness attached to a 72" Spherachute in an 18" nomex burrito roll.

Ground testing led me to 1.6gr for apogee side with 54/1706 case. These charges are in nitrile glove finger tips.

Both apogee and main charges are shearing three #2-56 nylon screws.

I was concerned about tracker antenna performance with the two aluminum 1/4-20 rods and a metal bulkhead, but so far so good.

IMG_6407.jpg IMG_6406.jpg IMG_6405.jpg
IMG_6404.jpg IMG_6403.jpg IMG_6402.jpg
IMG_6401.jpg
 
Last edited:
The road to rocket Nirvana is paved with big motors stuffed in short rockets.
In this you seem to Excel, at a multitude of levels.
Carry on.

Thank you, Jim! I sure appreciate all the advice and tips I've gleaned from your informative posts here.

Thanks, Tobor! I've flown my 3" BF the most of my swarm, on everything from H130s to I211s. It's a ton of pop 'n drop fun with a JLCR! I'm kind of eyeing it for a HED upgrade to accommodate small Js.

 
Thanks, Michael.

My forward bulkhead is an APE inspired design with integral charge cups that I made myself. This bulkhead and sled was originally designed for my AMW FiberMax with the goal of holding just a single MW RRC3 and T3.

I was pleased to find the bulkhead also slipped into MAC phenolic couplers with just a little sanding. Seeing the ejection delays I needed for big K motors, I decided to upgrade the sled to hold a second altimeter since motor eject backup was out.

It now holds two 9Vs to run altimeters, a 600mAh Lipo for the T3 tracker, and 3 screw switches 120 degrees apart which I arm with a Wera precision PH #00 screw driver through the vent band holes (not just any screw driver can poke in there!)

I have the coupler engaged ~1.75" in the WM NC. I'm using 1.2gr for the NC main, this is packed in a nitrile glove tip, stuffed in the integral charge cup. Big SS eye nut on the NC tip screw for harness attachment. 18' of MAC 1/4", 3,000lb kevlar harness attached to a 72" Spherachute in an 18" nomex burrito roll.

Ground testing led me to 1.6gr for apogee side with 54/1706 case. These charges are in nitrile glove finger tips.

Both apogee and main charges are shearing three #2-56 nylon screws.

I was concerned about tracker antenna performance with the two aluminum 1/4-20 rods and a metal bulkhead, but so far so good.

Wow George, you certainly out did yourself on that one. That is a work of art and very nicely laid out, and there is that kapton tape again.

I am just in the process of working through my 4" BlackFly HED AV bay but I got a bit greedy with the motor requirements. I had to make sure that I can fit the Loki 54-2800 hardware in it. This means that the AV bay is recessed into the coupler which does not leave a lot of room.

Well at least that is the current plan but I still have some of the details to work though. Once I am finished I will post some pics.

I wonder if you could fit the 38-1200 Loki hardware in your 3", I bet the J1127 would be a nice motor for it :)
 
George, I meant to ask you, how did you pack your chute in the nosecone? I have concerns with the nose popping off and the chute stays packed in the tip of the nosecone. Did you have similar concerns and if so what if anything did you do to mitigate this from happening? My thoughts were to pack the chute on top of the recovery harness so the recovery harness forces, or at least that is the hope, the chute out first.
 
George, I meant to ask you, how did you pack your chute in the nosecone? I have concerns with the nose popping off and the chute stays packed in the tip of the nosecone. Did you have similar concerns and if so what if anything did you do to mitigate this from happening? My thoughts were to pack the chute on top of the recovery harness so the recovery harness forces, or at least that is the hope, the chute out first.

I did have initial concerns, but so far I've seen 2 ground tests and 4 flights with this configuration and they all came out fine. It's a snug fit in the NC, but I think of it like a plastic injection mold with draft angle to promote release. As soon as the chute/nomex move a little, it's definitely coming out (unlike a straight walled payload tube).

I make a longish bundle of the Z-folded kevlar and secure it with one of my wife's hair ties. Since the ground testing I have started I placing the kevlar bundle under the last wrap of the nomex burrito roll, so that probably helps it all come out together. I will document my packing the next time I prepare this rocket (for a K695R).

I considered placing the charge in the nose tip, but this seemed like a PITA and more likely to damage or tangle the wire running up to the ematch. I like the simplicity of wiring ematches directly to the altimeter and didn't want to extend the leads to reach the nose tip.

I was more concerned about the deployment when I was using a 3/8" kevlar tubular harness, that was a tight fit. After 2 ground tests and one flight I switched to the 1/4" kevlar. I've been close enough to view the main deployment a couple times, and it comes out resoundingly! It's really fun to hear the second, back up charge go off 200' lower.

Here's 1.2gr:


Which I bumped up after watching 1.0gr:
 
Am I correct in noting that you tested without the brass tip? I will be doing my ground testing in the next couple of weeks and I plan to use the aluminium one for this.
 
Back
Top