Last Jedi Movie Discussion Thread: SPOILERS Enter At Your Own Risk

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The little boy wasn't on a ship - he's one of the slaves working in the stable of the horse rabbit things on the casino planet. He uses the Force to move his broom which looks like a light sabre as he peers up at the stars. Neat image showing you don't have to be a Skywalker or even a Jedi to use the Force .
 
Agreed. I'm thinking the boy is supposed to symbolize hope returning in many forms. Which is what the galaxy needs more than one or two super heroes.

Although there are people like my friend that are all ticked off because Luke "the embodiment of hope" from his childhood was portrayed as having lost all hope and given up.
 
OK, a stable. Another one of those overlooked details I sorta missed. I did catch that action with the broom though. I agree, that if he is a nobody, then he is symbolic. That dreamy look in his eyes was saying, "I'll be the one to fix it when I get bigger."
 
The thing that bothered me about the scene was that she appeared unconscious when she did it. Maybe Jedis have a self preservation thing that kicks in even when they are unconscious.

Ah, she actually came to and opened her eyes before she did it. Maybe you blinked and missed that part. (See what I did there?)
 
Between that scene and the revelation about Rey's parents, I sense a solid head fake about where Episode IX is headed. It won't be the Skywalker family that saves the universe, but rather a bunch of highly motivated nobodies like Finn, Rey, Rose, and Poe.

Well, Rian Johnson wrote his own story for Last Jedi. He chose to "undo" or alter some things that J.J. Abrams had done (like Kylo's mask).

There was no 3-movie story arc planned out such as " Movie 7 does this, Movie 9 will conclude with these, and movie 8 will do this and this and this to bridge the storylines from 7 to 9. Which is what would have happened if they'd tapped J. Michael Straczynski to write them. :) (He planned out Babylon-5 as a 5-year TV series with all major events outlined. It was incredible to see seeds planted in season 1 start to be reaped in season 2, and season 3 was mind-blowing at times, with a scene that rivaled "Luke, I am your father", and finding out who River Song was in Doctor Who).

Anyway....

J.J. Abrams is directing the next one..... and he is as free to undo or alter things that Johnson did, to a point (can't undo having General Organa's ships and nearly all of the members of the resistance she commanded, being lost).

Call me silly, but I don't exactly take the word of a Han-murdering Dark Sider at face value, as to what he said to Rey about her parents. Even Light-siders like Obi-Wan and Luke lied..... at least lied "from a certain point of view". I mean, unless I missed it, Kylo didn't tell Rey to search her feelings as to the truth of what he was telling her about her parents (as Vader told Luke to do as to the truth of Vader being his father). Now, if Johnson was directing the next one, OK, Kylo's story about Rey's parents might hold up. With Abrams directing.... it may turn out different. Or not. :)

Given both the events of this movie (such as kids with resistance rings and one displaying some Jedi power at the end), and the real-world sad fact that Carrie Fisher died, I won't be surprised if the next movie happens with years having elapsed since this one ended, to allow for time for things to have developed. Indeed this one happened without any time having gone by, at the time of filming Episode 9 the actors will be 4 years older than when they began shooting The Force Awakens.
 
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Call me silly, but I don't exactly take the word of a Han-murdering Dark Sider at face value, as to what he said to Rey about her parents.

But wait, Kylo did NOT tell Rey who her parents were! He simply bullied her into admitting that she knew who they were all along.

It was Rey who said her parents were "nobodies!" That's a little detail my wife and I picked up on a second viewing.

James
 
But wait, Kylo did NOT tell Rey who her parents were! He simply bullied her into admitting that she knew who they were all along.

It was Rey who said her parents were "nobodies!" That's a little detail my wife and I picked up on a second viewing.

James

Because what you learn "from yourself" in a Dark side mirror cave is oh so trustworthy lol
 
But wait, Kylo did NOT tell Rey who her parents were! He simply bullied her into admitting that she knew who they were all along.

It was Rey who said her parents were "nobodies!" That's a little detail my wife and I picked up on a second viewing.

James

And it was Rey was so confident in her recollections as a small child, that she fully expected her nobody parents whose faces she has no memory of, to come back and get her any day. :)

Well, we'll have to wait two more years to find out either way on that..... plus the little thing about the fate of the SW universe.

And one more year to see what Ritchie Cunningham is doing with young Han Solo's story..... "Aaaaay Chewie".
 
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Any one see Kevin Smith's review of the movie? Very detailed and I agree with most of his sentiments but it's a 90-minute review, the guy looks and sounds like he's on "something expensive".

Here is that review.
Warning: Obscenity alert...LOTS of them.

[video=youtube;GRwmtpr79qE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwmtpr79qE[/video]
 
There was no 3-movie story arc planned out such as " Movie 7 does this, Movie 9 will conclude with these, and movie 8 will do this and this and this to bridge the storylines from 7 to 9. Which is what would have happened if they'd tapped J. Michael Straczynski to write them. :) (He planned out Babylon-5 as a 5-year TV series with all major events outlined. It was incredible to see seeds planted in season 1 start to be reaped in season 2, and season 3 was mind-blowing at times, with a scene that rivaled "Luke, I am your father", and finding out who River Song was in Doctor Who).

Not every major event was outlined on Babylon 5. For a long time I thought replacing Michael O'Hare as the Babylon 5 commander was planned. I only recently read that O'Hare suffered from debilitating case of schizophrenia. Straczynski really wanted to keep him and even tried to reschedule the second season to accommodate O'Hare, but Mr. O'Hare declined and they separated amicably. They replaced him with Bruce Boxleitner for the rest of the series and brought O'Hare back for a few guest shots to wrap up his story. The reason for Mr. O'Hare leaving the show was kept quiet and only released after his death in 2012.
 
Not every major event was outlined on Babylon 5. For a long time I thought replacing Michael O'Hare as the Babylon 5 commander was planned. I only recently read that O'Hare suffered from debilitating case of schizophrenia. Straczynski really wanted to keep him and even tried to reschedule the second season to accommodate O'Hare, but Mr. O'Hare declined and they separated amicably. They replaced him with Bruce Boxleitner for the rest of the series and brought O'Hare back for a few guest shots to wrap up his story. The reason for Mr. O'Hare leaving the show was kept quiet and only released after his death in 2012.

True, that Straczynski had to scramble to modify the 5 year plan to deal with the original station commander (O'Hare) leaving, and the new commander's (Boxleitner) backstory and modifications to the original outline.

But he certainly had a hell of a 5-year plan before shooting the pilot. And once he got enough modified to get season two onto a good start, he had a lot of time left to adjust the outline for the rest of the 5 year plan. Very likely to have been O'Hare's Sinclair that went to Z'ha'dum, and Sinclair's girlfriend that would have done most of what Melissa Gilbert's character did leading up to and during that.

Trying to avoid spoilers, for those who have not yet seen it but maybe someday will see the series, I'll say this. Some key events that occurred in "In Valen's Name", especially the last 3 minutes or so (with B4 going to where it was being taken to originally in Babylon Squared, as well as a mind-blowing plot development along the way and at the very end)..... is very likely how the show was originally going to end, had O'Hare stayed. Which would have been the most incredible ending for any TV show, ever - never mind series endings like "St. Elsewhere" or "Newhart".

Also with the show's future uncertain as plans for season 4 began, Straczynski ended up merging the outline for seasons 4 and 5 into season 4, to be sure there was an ending to the show. Even to the point of shooting a final episode (Sleeping in Light) that once the show was renewed for season 5, that episode was not shown at the end of season 4 but held back for the end of season 5. Also that was a big reason why season 5 was weak compared to the others, Straczynski had to quickly outline a season in 2-3 months, when he'd spent years on the original 5 year plan. Although the last half was stronger than the first half (mostly Telepaths), and it was a pretty satisfying end.

Except for the reason why B-5's foretold fate finally occurred, that made no real sense. But since it was foretold as a future fact many times, it had to happen for some reason. But I'm sure originally it was supposed to happen as a critical thing, thus causing the events set into motion by Babylon-Squared (why B4 was needed) and certainly by the events in "In Valen's Name" (even to the point of somebody's time stabilizer not working, to explain a certain physical appearence effect that seemed to have been intended as a natural result when Babylon-Squared was written, but had to be "fixed" for In Valen's Name since the original 5 year outline had to be revised after O'Hare left).
 
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I saw the movie again last night, and since I started this thread with some tear downs on some issues I had, I will say most of these issues were put to rest after a second viewing.

Gravity in space? The whole bombs dropping on the Dreadnaught ship, this requires gravity.

First the Space Physics, I have to accept that physics in the Star Wars Universe or really most space movies is just going to not be exactly correct. In fact the only really accurate representation of space physics in the entire movie is the 15 seconds of silence when the Rebel cruiser lite speed jumps through the First Order fleet. Seeing this a second time and on a much larger screen no less, made this an epic scene.

What happened to lesson 3? We see Luke's lessons with Rey and One and Two are covered, what ever happened to three.

Rey left the island at this point before lesson 3 had a chance to officially become reality. Though many things that happened could be considered lesson 3.

On another note, one thing that I noticed in the 2nd viewing, where was the Jedi training Temple at that Ben Solo (before he became Kylo) was mentored by Luke? If it was on the island, then the whole premise of TFA is null and void, as Kylo would have known all along where Luke was at.

Laura Dern. Need not say anything else about this, other than horrible casting choice.

When I looked into the back story of Vice Admiral Holdo and her relationship with Leia, this was a much more believable casting choice. I really enjoyed her character much more the 2nd time around.

Why couldn't Snoke's ship just speed up? Are we to believe that this ship can not speed up to the rebel ship?

Space Physics.

If you can look out the bridge of the rebel ship and see the transports escaping even though they are cloaked, could you not do the same from the First Order ship bridge?

See my earlier space physics comment, also stuttering John kind of explained this with his giving up the rebels cloaking which he would have heard about on the stolen ship leaving Canto Blight.



A few second viewing observations, on the Salt Mining Planet you never see Luke's foot prints when he is fighting Kylo.

Watch the Snoke death scene very closely, this will explain how Kylo was able to kill Snoke without Snoke realizing what was going on. I think this is the most brilliantly written scene in the whole movie.

I had issues after the first viewing with Luke's whole demeanor, after the second viewing though, it is clear why he was like this, and actually makes perfect sense. Also keep in mind we have seen two other Jedi Masters that lived in seclusion prior to Luke, and both were having much the same feelings.

Rey's getting back to the Falcon is explained. It takes place in two scenes and you have to be mindful to watch for them, but the explanation is there.

Didn't catch Hux about to kill Kylo the first outing.



Predictions based on my second viewing.

I have a feeling we will see a lot of force ghosts in ep IX, namely Snoke, Luke, and this is how they will add Leia digitally after our Princesses passing earlier this year.

I believe Canto Blight story line will end up being critical in ep IX as well as Rian Johnson's new trilogy.

Stuttering John is going to be key to the story line.


After the first viewing I would have given this movie a 6 after seeing it a second time though this is a high 9. One of the best in the series yet. But still no Empire Strikes Back, though that is a near impossible bar to reach.
 
Is there any thing new about the force being born into a young person out of the clear blue sky? For all the film footage about Anakin there was never an explanation about who is father was or where his gift came from. He was also poor growing up and his mother did not have the force.
 
I saw the movie again last night, and since I started this thread with some tear downs on some issues I had, I will say most of these issues were put to rest after a second viewing.

Gravity in space? The whole bombs dropping on the Dreadnaught ship, this requires gravity.

First the Space Physics, I have to accept that physics in the Star Wars Universe or really most space movies is just going to not be exactly correct. In fact the only really accurate representation of space physics in the entire movie is the 15 seconds of silence when the Rebel cruiser lite speed jumps through the First Order fleet. Seeing this a second time and on a much larger screen no less, made this an epic scene.

On another note, one thing that I noticed in the 2nd viewing, where was the Jedi training Temple at that Ben Solo (before he became Kylo) was mentored by Luke? If it was on the island, then the whole premise of TFA is null and void, as Kylo would have known all along where Luke was at.

The more I see people discuss the movie, the more I believe the people that had issues with it missed a lot of things. I had to explain a few things to my brother in law on Christmas. Important things he just happened to miss (like Kylo manipulating Luke's saber with the force to kill Snoke). He understood it better once I filled in the blanks. A friend fell asleep during some scenes. She's hopelessly lost.

In addition to the clarifications you caught the second time around:

In addition to the gravity on the bombers and the laws of momentum, there's an entire planet chock-full of gravity underneath that bombing scene. In fact, one of the stricken bombers pitches down towards the planet and starts to sink (visually very similar to a hit WWII bomber).

The temple wasn't on Luke's island. In TFA, they explained Luke had a student turn to the dark side. AFTER THAT, he disappeared.

Interesting take on the force ghosts. I think we're done with Snoke except for a mention here and there. And I think Benicio Del Toro's character is done also. I'm not sure if that specific kid at the end will make a return. I think that was to show that there are random people in places you'd least expect that will come together into the new rebellion. And after seeing it the second time I believe that Rey's parents are nobodies. We'll see in a couple years, I guess.
 
Is there any thing new about the force being born into a young person out of the clear blue sky? For all the film footage about Anakin there was never an explanation about who is father was or where his gift came from. He was also poor growing up and his mother did not have the force.

The majority of Jedi in Star Wars don't have any backstory or explanation. Emperor Palpatine, Obi Wan, Yoda, Anakin, Maul, Windu, etc., had no explanation at all.
 
Finally saw the movie tonight and that makes me late to the party. I can agree with pretty much everything Exactimator stated...except the part about Leia and her Force feelings. She first used it in Empire Strikes Back. I elaborate a bit below.

I have been a Star Wars fan since I saw Jedi in theaters when I was four. I remember the Endor scene and the Ewoks, because some reason I got sick and we had to leave the theater. :( Sorry mom and dad. I still love the Ewoks...sorry. I don't consider anything other than the movies to be canon. There is simply too many novels, comic books, video games and what-not to learn all that crap. Kudos to those who do and sorry also because you may be saying "But no, in this book this happens" oh well, not here. The only non-canon thing that caused parts of this movie to fail to meet my expectations was the legend/theory/hearsay that Luke was to be one of the most powerful Jedi that ever lived. I don't know where I read that, so I can't cite the source. I was sure hoping to see Luke swoop down in his X-Wing out on the salt flats. And I thought he did, but it turned out to be the Falcon.

Not gonna dissect the movie too much. I only go to the theaters to watch "Epic" movies, and enjoy them. Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings and so on. So I don't go that often. I will not nit pick the details. I'll just nit pick what others have posted here. Post my observations and set straight anyone who strays too far. :)

Foot prints in the salt. Two references were made to the footprints. The old man walked out and left them (the 11B tasted it), then Luke was watching Kylo's. Good catch on not seeing Luke's prints, I missed it. I honestly thought the first shot from the AT AT or Kylo's ship (whichever it was) did him in, but I guess it was just the red soil "splattering" up. I knew he would still be there when they kept shooting.

The kid at the end was the kid that Rose and Fin met with the horse rabbit raptors (that has been established). I'm thinking Rose gave him the ring as a bribe or token. I did catch him picking up the broom without touching it but didn't even think about it being Force related.

Leia first revealed a bit of Force powers in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. When Luke is hanging beneath Cloud City she tells Chewy to turn around and she knows where Luke is. Remember? Lando argues a bit.

If ships are in space with engines burning, then they would be accelerating. So all the ships were steadily accelerating. But not in the Star Wars universe. I won't tear apart Star Wars physics.

Lesson #3. Rey left before Luke got to it.

Midichlorian's gave birth to Anakin. It was prophesied. Qui Gon and Obi Wan talked about it in Episode I:The Phantom Menace.

Seeing how no one knows who the heck Rey is, I am inclined to believe her parents were nobodies. In Episode VII:The Force Awakens, Leia walks straight to her and embraces her as a friend or daughter/niece, but that's it. She and Han were the only two to slightly hint at knowing her. Han not so much really.

Why was Laura Dern such a bad choice for her character? She done a fine job.

Del Toro. I honest to God expected Lando to be either the master code breaker or Del Toro's character after the one in the casino proved to not be Lando. Escpecially the way Maz would never mention a name.

The slow bombers may have been all they had at their disposal. They are a resistance and not a fully funded standing military.

I loved Yoda's return. Would've been nice to see Obi Wan as well. Old Obi Wan.

Loved the light speed kamikaze scene. Theater was dead quite here as well. I even mentioned afterwards about the no sound in space, finally. Wonder why KKVs haven't made it to the Star Wars universe sooner.

I liked it when the little penguin thing stuck to the window.

I thought the same thing about a big flux capacitor.

Until I actually saw Snoke sitting there I thought maybe he was Vader's ghost. Not Anakin. He turned to a ghost. Vader destroyed Anakin. Snoke was Vader's (Anakin's darkside) ghost. In The Force Awakens when Kylo is talking to Vader's mask. The damage on the mask matched the damage to Snoke's head. It was a theory that didn't pan out.

Looking forward to see what Rey does with the lightsaber. Will it be green? Blue? Purple? Yellow? Will it be all fizzy like Kylo's?

Did yaw catch that not only was Snoke cut in half, but his left hand was still "standing" on the arm of his throne? The lightsaber removed the hand from the arm, just thought that was neat little tidbit.

There were definitely a scene or two I was waiting for "the finger".

One hang-up that has bothered me, not related to this movie, is Chewy's weapon. The famed "Bowcaster". It is referred to once, in Episode VI:The Return of the Jedi. Luke calls it a crossbow. When did it become a bowcaster? Unless it was mentioned in Episode II or Episode III. I've only set through those a time or two.

Still expected more from Luke, and to see Lando show up. But not disappointed. A great movie.

Let's hope Woody Harrelson doesn't ruin Solo.
 
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The technical term is "Space Puffin"
I like Horse Rabbits, I foresee myself using that in the near future.

On bowcasters.....I want to say that comes from novels. And the Star Wars Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology (loved that book as a kid along with ess. Guide to Vehicles and Starships). Come to think of it, I don't think it's called anything but crossbow in the movies.
 
Remember, J.J. Abrams is the master of the gaslighting Shylaman-style bombshell switch:

Before "Star Trek (2009)" --- 'No members of the original cast appear.' (They actually did do a pretty good job of keeping this secret until only a couple weeks before premiere.)

Before "Star Trek Into Darkness" -- 'Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a villain named 'John Harrison.' '



And of course "STID" also utilized the hackneyed Superman-style miracle resurrection at the end, so it wouldn't shock me to see one or more of the Jedi Force Ghosts reappear in the flesh, even if it's CGI flesh. So I wouldn't take it as given that characters who appear to be dead are really, you know, dead.


(They won't CGI Carrie Fisher because of the PR backlash they'd get, but Mark Hamill has made pretty clear his dissatisfaction with Luke's 'end' in TLJ, so I'm sure he'd be up for appearing in whatever capacity they wanted. And Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson and Hayden Christensen, I'm sure, wouldn't be averse to picking up a few bucks for a couple days of voice and mo-cap work. If anything is going to turn back or redeem Kylo Ren, it would have to be a multi-generational meeting of the Jedi.)
 
Space Puffin sounds good to me.

I always liked the Essential Guides. I got a visual reference to the Star Wars universe (something along those lines) for Christmas this year and it is clogged with stuff from the Clone Wars cartoon, novels and so on. To the point that not much room is left for the actual movie stuff. But it is still neat.

We don't need a CGI Hayden Christensen ghost. That was horrible. Bring back Sebastian Shaw and I am good with it. Ewan McGregor wouldn't, or shouldn't, be the ghost of Obi Wan. Alec Guinness was old Obi Wan and his ghost. No need to screw that up with McGregor. Supposedly Lucas went back and edited out Shaw and put in the titty baby because that is what he looked like when Anakin ceased to exist and Darth Vader was born. If Anakin was already dead, he had plenty of opportunities to come out as the ghost to help/advise. Vader had good in him still and turned from the Dark Side right before he died. And he turned to a ghost only after that happened. Bring back Shaw.
 
It is just a movie, and yes it is flawed. Beyond that who really cares? Does it actually have any effect on your life? If it was that bad do not go see anymore Star Wars movies. Complaining about it will do nothing- the only way to fix this is to not give Disney any more of your money. Protest with your wallet.


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Wait this isn't real? I didn't realize it was just a movie. Thanks for clearing that up.

Thank you for the advice. But I can assure you my little annual donation to Disney is pretty insignificant.
 
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Wait this isn't real? I didn't realize it was just a movie. Thanks for clearing that up.

Thank you for the advice. But I can assure you my little annual donation to Disney is pretty insignificant.

I am glad I could help clear this up for you. I grew up watching Star Wars, and I generally enjoy it. When I hear the amount of analyzing and complaining it just amazes me. It is a silly movie meant to distract us from our daily BS for a couple of hours, and to extract some money from our wallets. It is not some deep, philosophical masterpiece- it is space craft that do not conform to physics and folks running around with light sabers- nothing I get worked up about.

Feel free to ignore all of these movies or watch them. Whatever works. Just do not let it bug you if a movie sucks.


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I'd just like to point out that so far this thread has been the most polite and civil online Last Jedi discussion I've read.

Thanks for everyone that's helped keep it that way!
 
I agree Nytrunner. And up until post #85 the thread has been civil and pretty much on topic. On occasion someone has to come by and poke folks with a stick though; and make a comment that adds nothing to the thread; and not discuss the movie at all; and remind folks who do not need reminding that the movie isn't real; and just generally derail the thread. I never said I didn't like any of the Star Wars movies. I never said the movie sucks. I never said it has any affect on my life whatsoever. I fail to see how any of my previous statements would lead anyone to infer any of those statements. Seems to me someone just happened by and wanted to disrupt the thread; and I inadvertently helped him do it. So my apologies and I will not disrupt the thread further. The man with the stick can do what he wants.
 
I liked the movie overall. I thought the humor in general added to the movie, but I always liked my Star Trek episodes where they didn't take themselves too seriously. There was a lot more social commentary in this episode; in particular the casino scene reminded me of Hunger Games. I like the idea that high Force power can come from anywhere. Oddly, Mark Hamill being disgusted with all of Luke's life choices worked out well, since Luke was kind of disgusted with all of Luke's life choices. Most everything else I have to say about it has already been said, except...

How is it that X-wings have destroyed two Death Stars in 30 years and they still can't manage to design a fixed gun mount for Star Destroyers that is fast enough to track a X-wing at a reasonable distance or armored heavily enough to withstand its fire? Those arms dealers on the casino planet are sure getting a good deal for an inferior product!
 
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