Last Jedi Movie Discussion Thread: SPOILERS Enter At Your Own Risk

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Speaking of merchandise, I need to snag one of those Last Jedi popcorn buckets tomorrow......

I don't actually like popcorn that much, but it'll match the Force Awakens movie cup I got two years ago.
 
I saw it 6 PM Thursday at a special Fan Event. Maybe I'll post some pics later.

I went early more to avoid Spoilers than anything else. Spilers was a concern in many ways, like the Jerk-Hole 2 years ago who wrote "Hand sold Dies in the Force Awakens" in the rear window of his SUV (link below)
https://i.imgur.com/h3PjuCDl.jpg


Yes, we are to believe that the command ship couldn't speed up to catch it. It's friggin massive!

It's a means to an end. A Movie McGuffin. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

Just like in the movie "Titanic", when Jack and Rose are on the same piece of debris but he lets go to sacrifice his life to save hers, some made a HUGE issue out of saying the debris was floating them well enough that he didn't have to do that. Like it was a "real life" event and he chose badly.

Script said "Jacks gonna sacrifice himself and die". So, when they shot the scene, the two seemed to float better on it than might seem necessary for one to have to let go to save the other. But the point wasn't how well the debris was floating on the water the day they filmed that scene, the point was he had to sacrifice his life so Rose could make it.

In this movie, same thing. The point of the script was a long drawn out escape attempt, allowing time for Finn and Rose (hey, another Rose!) to try to get help, a codebreaker at that Casino. So, the McGuffin was that for some reason, the rebel ships had the ability to keep ahead of the destroyers for a few hours, but would run out of fuel eventually.

Some quibble over "why can't the destroyers just go faster and catch up", like they are watching a SCIENCE oriented movie, and yet not saying anything about ships making nosies in space as they fly around, and fighters that bank and turn like airplanes do in air (Actually you did make that very point, which most totally miss), which is totally unrealistic for spacecraft but what we are used to seeing with airplane maneuvers. 2001: a Space Odyssey was a great Sci-Fi movie, but long drawn out boring space scenes due in large part to being realistic.

Though it was interesting that for the Kamikaze "Light speed" collision, that it was done without any sound. Like..... realistic. But in the Star Wars movies universe, not realistic, since we're used to big "Kabooms" when things get blowed up in Star Wars, the bigger the louder.

Another McGuffin in this one was..... "Luke's gonna die". Some might claim that hey why couldn't he project himself like that and still live?". Well, the plot of the script was , he's gonna die and not be in the next movie (unless as a "Force Ghost" like Yoda was). So, they had a great way for him to go out, not be killed by Kylo, but to sacrifice himself to save Rose.... uh.... and the other rebels. :)

Here is a fan pet peeve, that I have a pet peeve about THEM being peeved. The ones who are PO'ed that after Leia was blown out of the ship into space, she was able to use the Force to "FLY like Superman" back into the ship. No, she didn't "fly like Superman". It's SPACE, ZERO Gravity. Only need a TINY bit of acceleration (in the right direction) to get from one place to another place. While not shown in the movies, in books she even became a Jedi, at one point trained by Luke. But even ignoring the books, and only going by the movies, is it THAT hard to imagine that in 30 years she would NOT at least develop a tiny ability to use the Force to pull on an object with a force (physics) of say one pound? Because if she could do nothing more but apply just a pull of one pound to an object, then she could PULL HERSELF back to that ship in Zero G, using just one pound of pull for a constant acceleration which would quickly add up. Same as if she had a ROPE between her and the ship and just pulled on the rope with one pound of force constantly, with the resulting acceleration per second per second.

So, I just shake my head about the people ticked off about THAT, like she had unbelieveable "super powers" that only "Real Jedi" could have. Which really slights her likely development in all those years, like she could NEVER become a Jedi if she wanted to (and had in the books). Sure she once said (In Return of the Jedi) Luke had a power she could never have, but that was just before Luke told her she was his sister, and the Force was strong in their FAMILY. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren sure did not get those Force powers from Han's side of the family (Although the way Obi-Wan Kenobi smiled in A New Hope when Han said: "There’s no mystical energy field controls my destiny", implied just maybe Han DID have some unknowing help from the Force). Certainly Leia showed she had SOME Force powers, with her psychic connection with Luke, and feeling/knowing what happened the moment that Han was killed by Kylo (as well as when Luke died). Also of course in Jedi, when the Death Star blew, and Han said he was sure Luke wasn't on it, Leia confirmed that Luke wasn't, she could feel it (Her first clear indication of using Force powers)
 
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Gravity in space? The whole bombs dropping on the Dreadnaught ship, this requires gravity.

Physics issues like this have existed throughout the entire series. The fighters fly around and dogfight as if they are subject to aerodynamics, even though they're in the vacuum of space. The bombing run is slightly less obnoxious if the Dreadnaught has enough mass to have an appreciable amount of gravity. Personally I thought the bombers themselves moved WAY too slowly, and I get this was to build tension, but geez fix your pacing issues in production.

Laura Dern. Need not say anything else about this, other than horrible casting choice.

Another scene or two establishing her relationship with Leia and the Resistance really would have helped.

Why couldn't Snoke's ship just speed up? Are we to believe that this ship can not speed up to the rebel ship?

The in-film explanation is the Resistance ships are smaller and faster. Or rather, in the vacuum of space they can accelerate more quickly.


If you can look out the bridge of the rebel ship and see the transports escaping even though they are cloaked, could you not do the same from the First Order ship bridge?

The First Order ships were quite a bit further away, and in the movie they mention they aren't scanning for small ships and they're partially cloaked. They're focused on the one big one. Also, First Order officers and crew are apparently morons, much like their earlier Imperial counterparts. None of that mattered once Del Toro sold them out though.
 
Saw it yesterday and probably would give it a 5 on a scale of 1 -10. Disappointed in Luke and his hesitation to do anything - until the end. The casino plot seemed un-nessarily in its detail and confusing. Thought there would be better answers about Rey. But I will go to the next one for sure.

I think Luke's hesitation to get involved centered on his loss of confidence and profound self-doubt after he failed to properly mentor Ben Solo, and then in a moment of weakness sought to kill him as an easy way out. He became depressed and withdrawn from the world after his failure. He said "screw it" to the whole Jedi thing, resigned himself to self-imposed exile on Ahch-To, and it took a lot to convince him to jump back in.

The whole casino side-mission baffled me at first as well, but in retrospect I think it was pretty smart. It shows Poe getting Finn and Rose to go off on a half-cocked hail-Mary mission to single-handedly save the day, and the whole thing ultimately fails. This is a complete 180 from the cliche of such heroic missions somehow turning out perfectly and neatly solving all the problems. I like that this movie took a lot of the standard plot pablum and turned it completely upside-down.

As for Rey's lineage, I really like how she's a nobody. The "chosen nobleman who saves the masses" trope was getting tired, and the idea that "anyone can be a hero" is very much in line with American ideals. Considering that the Resistance is in dire straits at the end of the movie, I expect Episode 9 will focus on a populist uprising to overthrow the First Order.
 
1) If Holdo's solution worked so well, why didn't they just do that all the time? They could sacrifice any ship (or a large missile) and apparently cause near infinite destruction.

It seems that the Resistance is definitely not on par with the Rebellion -- it's much smaller and weaker. By the end of the movie there are hardly any of them left in the main group. If they sacrificed ships and crew willy-nilly, they would have been wiped out far sooner. Also, Holdo's sacrifice definitely didn't cause "near infinite destruction." Sure she cut Snoke's ship in half, but it was still functional and evacuation for most of the crew was possible. Also at first it looked like she also wiped out a large number of nearby Star Destroyers, but I think that was just the glare of the blast reflecting off them. The subsequent assault on Crait showed that the First Order still had a lot at their disposal.

2) How did Rey get back onto the Falcon at the end?

I need to re-watch it to sort this out.

And for the record: I liked the porgs.

Myself as well. Especially the scene with Chewbacca preparing to snack on roasted porg. I'll admit some of the humor was out of place in this movie, but that scene was a perfect break.
 
I'm not sure anything would make Jar Jar more tolerable. If there was ever a turd in the Star Wars punch bowl, it's Jar Jar.

Today I was talking to a SW friend and mentioned I didn't think the prequels were that bad if you just skip over all the terribly-written dialogue between Padme and Anakin, and pretend Padme was mortally wounded by Anakin in his fight with Obi-Wan instead of her dying "of a broken heart." Then he said "what about Jar Jar?" And I'm like "....oh yeah...that whole Gungan thing was pretty bleh..."
 
The ones who are PO'ed that after Leia was blown out of the ship into space, she was able to use the Force to "FLY like Superman" back into the ship. No, she didn't "fly like Superman". It's SPACE, ZERO Gravity. Only need a TINY bit of acceleration (in the right direction) to get from one place to another place. While not shown in the movies, in books she even became a Jedi, at one point trained by Luke. But even ignoring the books, and only going by the movies, is it THAT hard to imagine that in 30 years she would NOT at least develop a tiny ability to use the Force to pull on an object with a force (physics) of say one pound?

Agreed. We don't know every detail of Leia's life over the past 30 years other than she's a potential Force-user on the level of Luke. Holding her breath and giving herself a nudge seems pretty trivial. I don't know why some people lost their minds over such a modest and reasonable action.

At first I thought this was an obvious place to write off Carrie Fisher's character, but afterward I realized how insensitive that would be. This was her final movie, and casually blasting her into space would be pretty rough to digest after she had already filmed all the other scenes in the movie. Better to give her an off-screen send-off in the between-movie scroller for Episode 9.
 
Here is a fan pet peeve, that I have a pet peeve about THEM being peeved. The ones who are PO'ed that after Leia was blown out of the ship into space, she was able to use the Force to "FLY like Superman" back into the ship. No, she didn't "fly like Superman". It's SPACE, ZERO Gravity. Only need a TINY bit of acceleration (in the right direction) to get from one place to another place. While not shown in the movies, in books she even became a Jedi, at one point trained by Luke. But even ignoring the books, and only going by the movies, is it THAT hard to imagine that in 30 years she would NOT at least develop a tiny ability to use the Force to pull on an object with a force (physics) of say one pound? Because if she could do nothing more but apply just a pull of one pound to an object, then she could PULL HERSELF back to that ship in Zero G, using just one pound of pull for a constant acceleration which would quickly add up. Same as if she had a ROPE between her and the ship and just pulled on the rope with one pound of force constantly, with the resulting acceleration per second per second.
Mostly what I see in that situation is that it is okay for a man to force-throw other people around when boarding an enemy ship but not okay for a woman to force-throw herself around to save herself.
 
Why couldn't Snoke's ship just speed up? Are we to believe that this ship can not speed up to the rebel ship?

With a flux capacitor of that enormous size on board... they were restricted to a certain speed before they would start to time travel.
 
For background on the whole "Resistance vs Rebellion" thing, I just read an article summarizing events between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

Apparently, a civil war in the core region following the 2nd death star destruction ended in an armistice between the rebellion leaders (Mon Mothma, Leia, and company) and the Imperial Grand (title I forget). Mon Mothma became the new galactic chancellor, ended Palpatine's "special executive powers" from the Clone Wars era, and began reducing the standing New Republic forces. This included downgrading the Imperial Navy as well although some outer core worlds chose to retain the imperial power structure despite being realigned with the Republic. A faction split off and headed to outer territories where the 1st Order began to grow (Snoke and company).

Moving on, Leia was becoming a successful galactic senator and was likely going to be a candidate for chancellor. Somebody's machinations resulted in Darth Vader being revealed as Leia's father which essentially ended her chances of being the chancellor, and she stepped down from the senate. Unfortunately, the 1st Order began making its presence known subtly, and Leia was unable to convince the senate to make a concerted effort to combat it due to the controversy around her parentage (gee, a legislative body being indecisive? unheard of!).

So Leia went back to being a gorilla leader, formed the Resistance (not the Rebellion) and began the campaign against the 1st Order (with some informal aid from the New Republic). Which brings us to everybody's favorite star wars movie; The Force Awakens!
 
Mostly what I see in that situation is that it is okay for a man to force-throw other people around when boarding an enemy ship but not okay for a woman to force-throw herself around to save herself.

Ehhh, I cut a lot of slack there. I don't see it as a male vs female thing. Certainly Rey, and other female Jedis in the Prequels (and others such as Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels) shows the gals can be as kick-ass warriors as the guys.

You'd have a great point if we knew that in the recent Star Wars Movie-Verse that Leia actually had trained with Luke to maximize her Force powers. As apparently occurred in the books before the Force Awakens (which are now all non-Canon. Indeed part of the problem with the old books that require them to be non-Canon now is that she and Han had more than one kid, different names (none were "Ben") and the kids got killed sometime along the way. I didn't read the books, just noticed that in recently looking up a Wiki about Leia).

So, knowing nothing in detail from the recent movies, other than the fact that later as the First Order began to rise, she resumed being a Rebel, uh, OK, Resistance leader. And that she didn't seem to train to become a Jedi, that, still, it would stand to reason that she'd have learned to use her Force power potential to SOME extent. Just not full-blown pick up a person off the ground (or a boulder, or X-Wing), and move it around, even slam the person around (which ironically, even Vader did not do in the opening of the original movie (Later named Episode IV, A New Hope), yet hours BEFORE that he was slamming people around willy-nilly (at the end of "Rogue One").

So I look at it as a sort of middle-ground thing. Apparently she didn't train to become a Jedi, so no pick people up and slam them level of power. But hard to believe that she would never develop SOME small degree of Force power in 40 years. Even if only to have "fun" levitating marbles/pebbles to amuse toddler Ben. And if she could do that, she could maneuver in space.

Fun physics thought. If the ship weighed 1 million times more than she did, then when she "pulled" herself to the ship, well, actually she was pulling the ship TO HER. But the ship would only move 1 millionth as much in her direction, as she moved towards the ship. So if she was 1 million and 1 millimeters away from the ship, she moved 1 million millimeters towards the ship, and the ship moved 1 millimeter towards her. :)

sir-isaac-newton-approves.jpg
 
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Fun physics thought. If the ship weighed 1 million times more than she did, then when she "pulled" herself to the ship, well, actually she was pulling the ship TO HER. But the ship would only move 1 millionth as much in her direction, as she moved towards the ship. So if she was 1 million and 1 millimeters away from the ship, she moved 1 million millimeters towards the ship, and the ship moved 1 millimeter towards her. :)

Agreed, but you are assuming she was pulling the ship towards her and herself towards the ship. We don't understand how the Force works and she may be able to move objects relative to the universe without respect to mass and gravity and all that scientificy stuff.

The thing that bothered me about the scene was that she appeared unconscious when she did it. Maybe Jedis have a self preservation thing that kicks in even when they are unconscious.
 
Agreed, but you are assuming she was pulling the ship towards her and herself towards the ship. We don't understand how the Force works and she may be able to move objects relative to the universe without respect to mass and gravity and all that scientificy stuff.

The thing that bothered me about the scene was that she appeared unconscious when she did it. Maybe Jedis have a self preservation thing that kicks in even when they are unconscious.

I read that it was intended to be an instinctual. https://io9.gizmodo.com/rian-johnson-addresses-the-big-changes-to-the-force-in-1821435315

No more of a stretch than Rey being able to hold her own (at least) in a lightsaber fight with a partially trained Jedi/Sith/whatever.
 
Regarding the fun physics thought:

Agreed, but you are assuming she was pulling the ship towards her and herself towards the ship. We don't understand how the Force works and she may be able to move objects relative to the universe without respect to mass and gravity and all that scientificy stuff.

The thing that bothered me about the scene was that she appeared unconscious when she did it. Maybe Jedis have a self preservation thing that kicks in even when they are unconscious.

Yeah, we don't now exactly how the Force works. But I was showing how known physics could allow for it (once one gets over the little tiny issue of being able to exert a physical force on things by thought only).

As for the unconscious part, that didn't bug me. Thought she could have been "stunned" from the explosion. Also it occurs to me, only now, that in the grand scheme of the Force, the Force itself could exert some influence. Say that the ghost of Yoda becomes aware Leia is in trouble, and by some means (technobabble, or in this case Force-o-babble) nudges the Force to nudge Leia to begin to wake up and save herself.

Actually there was a MUCH bigger issue that the "She flew like Superman" haters didn't address. Vacuum. She was out there for more than a few seconds. The human body won't "explode" in space as in some movies/TV shows (The movie Outland comes to mind), but a person would not survive long either (2001 got it closer to being right, except there would have been SOME physical effects. The longer in vacuum, the more serious the extent of effects/serious injury/death). So as she was floating back, I was wondering if the Force was surrounding her with some pressurized atmosphere (unseen), or otherwise protecting her from the effects of vacuum (I'm not getting into the issue of breathing air, treating that more like holding breath underwater).

But mostly just going with it. Alternatives were either she dies, or since the script didn't call for that, then a far less impressive scene would have occurred. Such as her having JUST left the bridge before the explosion but getting seriously injured anyway (since the script called for her to be out of action for awhile). With what they did show with that scene, that was the one (and now only) time we ever got to see her using Force powers actively, not just "feeling".

Because it's not like the ships with near-infinite fuel (up until this latest movie, fuel was never a problem) that maneuver like fighter jets thru air, and make sounds in space, and Laser Swords whose intense beams of light act like SOLIDS when they hit each other (and whose beams only extend for a fixed distance of a few feet rather than unlimited till they hit something), are technically accurate either. We go with it.....
 
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No more of a stretch than Rey being able to hold her own (at least) in a lightsaber fight with a partially trained Jedi/Sith/whatever.


Not as much of a stretch when considering the fact that Ren had -not 10 mins previous- just been shot in the side with a weapon that had pretty much obliterated everyone else it hit.
Good circumstance for Rey, decent points for toughness in Ren's favor.


....and Laser Swords whose intense beams of light act like SOLIDS when they hit each other (and whose beams only extend for a fixed distance of a few feet rather than unlimited till they hit something), are technically accurate either. We go with it.....


For the sake of consistency in our made-up space opera physics; they're field-confined plasma blades that are subject to a phenomena called EM-bladelock when two of the blades meet.
 
So... Just got back from seeing it. Wow. Just wow. Really good Star Wars movie. I dont get what all the fuss was about.

Luke! Noooo Luke! Well I guess he had to go sometime. Just like Yoda though. Great way.

I really thought Kylo Ren turned back to the good side for a few minutes there. He might, but he killed Han so screw 'em!

Snoke went out like Darth Maul. Cut in half and thats it. I was expecting his upper half to reach up and force lightning them.

When there's SOUND IN SPACE, there's no point in quibbling about space opera physics. Just enjoy.
 
Such a missed opportunity for an even better joke - if, after Chewie tosses the cooked porg aside, the rest of the porgs had devoured the cooked one...now THAT'S comedy!
 
Haven't seen it...haven't seen Episodes I, II and III either.

I quit after the first three..... took the wife to the last one (Episode VII) and even though she likes Harrison Ford - she tried to walk out several times.
Guess I'll be seeing this on my own - if I do see it.
Any compelling reason to see this one in a theatre vs DVD?
 
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Any compelling reason to see this one in a theatre vs DVD?

overpriced stale pop corn & drink, that kid txtxing two rows ahead of you, that guy on his phone behind you, the nerds in the third row who've seen it now, for the 501st time, quoting, commenting, parodying it.. the chance to pay, what, $15 for the AVX - 3D treatment, the sticky floor, the 15 minutes of ads at the beginning..

:D

Actually, the "bit" that's mentioned above somewhere, the beautiful bit of animation when Holdo does her 'hail-mary thing'. I like 3D, and some of the areal fights were good.. and "space" in general should be seen on a big screen..
 
Sound at my house can't rattle fillings, sound at Il Teatro can. Plus yeah, that one segment is absolutely worth the big screen / big sound.
 
I must say, in TFA, instead of seeing an old Han, I just saw an old Harrison Ford.

In The Last Jedi on the other hand, Mark Hamill was definitely Luke and Carrie Fisher was definitely Leia, just older.

Any one see Kevin Smith's review of the movie? Very detailed and I agree with most of his sentiments but it's a 90-minute review, the guy looks and sounds like he's on "something expensive".
 
Haven't seen it...haven't seen Episodes I, II and III either.

I quit after the first three..... took the wife to the last one (Episode VII) and even though she likes Harrison Ford - she tried to walk out several times.
Guess I'll be seeing this on my own - if I do see it.
Any compelling reason to see this one in a theatre vs DVD?

I like seeing action and sci-fi movies on the big screen for the immersive experience and details that get lost on a small screen. In Star Wars the space battle scenes are great on the big screen. I saw it again last night. The last big battle on the salt/red planet looks amazing. I hadn't noticed this before, but when things are desperate then three TIE fighters suddenly explode at once, you see the shadow of the Falcon streak across the ground and hear the whine of its engine before you see the Falcon itself.

I've loved the thing since I was four. If they made a movie that was just a cockpit tour and the engines firing up, I'd be responsible for a large amount of the box office proceeds myself.
 
As one of those that almost never goes to the movies, I reserve my attendance for when I know I’m going to be dazzled. Star Wars always lures me in and I’ll be hanged if I’m going to analyze it to pieces on my first viewing. I’m in for the thrill. I’ll get around to analyzing it another day.

Some things you just can’t ignore though. When Yoda told Obi Wan that Luke was too old to train, but you see in a matter of a few weeks, (I’m guessing) Yoda tells Luke “Mind what you have learned. Serve you it can.” And in a few short days, Rey has learned enough in 2 lessons (I think) from Luke to pull off ripping light sabers into and levitating boulder landslides. Maybe it’s easier to learn to be a Jedi than Yoda lets on.

Oh look! There’s Maz making a cameo appearance!!! GO MAZ!…Who was she doing battle with anyway?

And OH man…I smelled this one coming a mile away. Luke is tucked away and secluded much like Obi Wan was, but for different reasons of course. At least Obi Wan had the guts to get a move on when he was asked. Luke wanted to cower away and be done with it all until R2 pulled a fast one on him. Using that same message from Leia to motivate Obi Wan. R2 exercising motivational methods? Turnabout is fair play Luke…your turn.

Kylo was better this time around. Especially after Snoke made him grow a pair. “You are no Vader. You are just a child in a mask.” Kylo starts to get a little real after that punch in the nose.

I seriously thought Leia should have been more “bunched up” when drawing herself back to the ship though. Especially the way she got torn out of it. Instead, she looked like one of those ballerinas in the Nutcracker on a rope gliding through the air. That was a bit hoaky.

Astral projecting yourself is something I never saw a Jedi do. I really didn’t catch on at first, but when Luke’s goatee was shorter and there was way much less gray in his hair, I knew there had to be something to that. Apparently Luke didn’t think he was as old as he really looks.

Bottom line, A really good movie. Special effects weren’t lacking at all. That dead silence explosion had the same effect in our theater too. Pin drop syndrome. I do have one question though. Who was that little boy staring out the back of the ship at the end? I noticed the resistance ring he was wearing. Was he anyone in particular?
 
I do have one question though. Who was that little boy staring out the back of the ship at the end? I noticed the resistance ring he was wearing. Was he anyone in particular?

He was just a nobody, a stable boy. A stable boy with the Force, though.

Between that scene and the revelation about Rey's parents, I sense a solid head fake about where Episode IX is headed. It won't be the Skywalker family that saves the universe, but rather a bunch of highly motivated nobodies like Finn, Rey, Rose, and Poe.

James
 
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