AT 38/1320 Why does this casing exist?

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Well I chunked our two cents into Aerotech Open Thread. It'll probably get shredded again with the J510 is just fine. Well the J510 is again, only 1 load. This casing has potential. And it doesn't take a WARP9 CATO to unlock it. Just another medium burn load to complement it would be nice. This casing has been out for years. It's been neglected.
 
I won a J510W at a launch raffle and bought the case to use it. It has a very nice burn, I have to order another one (I love white lightning reloads). As with all cases with a high L/D ratio, designing a reload propellant that will not cato or burn thru can be difficult.
 
Yeah I'm not going to be picky with what AT offers or when. It will take them some time to develop it if they see a market for it. If no one asks though then they don't even know what customers would like to see. Maybe they were looking for a certain number of J510 load sales before cranking out more reloads of different propellants, idk.

I think it's a nice feature for a casing to have at least three reloads or more for it for long term sustainability.
 
Yeah I'm not going to be picky with what AT offers or when. It will take them some time to develop it if they see a market for it. If no one asks though then they don't even know what customers would like to see. Maybe they were looking for a certain number of J510 load sales before cranking out more reloads of different propellants, idk.

I think it's a nice feature for a casing to have at least three reloads or more for it for long term sustainability.

People have asked many times.
 
For the sake of redundancy.....because it's awesome!

5cd593cfa1b741bab30b6f7e92b9bf6b.jpeg
 
Motor casings at either end of the scale are frequently created for a single unusual load. The CTI 54/6xl, the 38/1320, etc. Other loads might be developed for the case later, or not. The case itself is not usually very expensive so having only one load for that case works just fine for the people who like that load.
 
When I was looking to set a personal altitude record of a mile high and passing Mach 1 en route with my scratch-built Mach Schnell SLK 54, I was all set to use a Loki K-627. Open Rocket predicted that motor would achieve both goals easily. Unfortunately, Loki had to withhold a batch of these (according to my supplier) due to an issue with the propellant not adhering properly to the casting tube, so I was left with only AeroTech and Cesaroni 38mm motors that looked like they might work.

Confused....what about the other four loki loads for that case that'd pull mach/mile?
 
Well I chunked our two cents into Aerotech Open Thread. It'll probably get shredded again with the J510 is just fine. Well the J510 is again, only 1 load. This casing has potential. And it doesn't take a WARP9 CATO to unlock it. Just another medium burn load to complement it would be nice. This casing has been out for years. It's been neglected.

Its been out for years, and successful.... For a reason.

Yeah I'm not going to be picky with what AT offers or when. It will take them some time to develop it if they see a market for it. If no one asks though then they don't even know what customers would like to see. Maybe they were looking for a certain number of J510 load sales before cranking out more reloads of different propellants, idk.

I think it's a nice feature for a casing to have at least three reloads or more for it for long term sustainability.

Considering it's a pretty old case...I'd say it's sustained. ;)

Here's the real question.... why do you want another load in this case?
Have you flown so many J510's your sick of it? If not, Aerotech isn't likely to listen.
Does this load's burn profile not fit for a flight you are planning and another propellant would? If not, why do you want another propellant? pretty colors?


Motor casings at either end of the scale are frequently created for a single unusual load. The CTI 54/6xl, the 38/1320, etc. Other loads might be developed for the case later, or not. The case itself is not usually very expensive so having only one load for that case works just fine for the people who like that load.

Agreed. It's a unique load and one load itself supports the case. Having multiple loads for a case like this would likely HURT aerotech, not help it. It's a unique nitch, and I'm betting sells way way less motors than a case like the 38/720. So there just isn't the sales support for multiple propellants. You may see X sales with just the J510, and say, X+ 3% with two loads for the case. not worth it.


Now, yes...I'd be all over a green load in this case. But the number of people who SAY they want to buy a product, and then number with cash in hand when product hits the shelves, are two VERY different numbers. So, without real customers ready to buy.... AT isn't going to dive off into a small market load, thats a high investment in time and resources to develop.
 
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Its been out for years, and successful.... For a reason.



Considering it's a pretty old case...I'd say it's sustained. ;)

Here's the real question.... why do you want another load in this case?
Have you flown so many J510's your sick of it? If not, Aerotech isn't likely to listen.
Does this load's burn profile not fit for a flight you are planning and another propellant would? If not, why do you want another propellant? pretty colors?




Agreed. It's a unique load and one load itself supports the case. Having multiple loads for a case like this would likely HURT aerotech, not help it. It's a unique nitch, and I'm betting sells way way less motors than a case like the 38/720. So there just isn't the sales support for multiple propellants. You may see X sales with just the J510, and say, X+ 3% with two loads for the case. not worth it.


Now, yes...I'd be all over a green load in this case. But the number of people who SAY they want to buy a product, and then number with cash in hand when product hits the shelves, are two VERY different numbers. So, without real customers ready to buy.... AT isn't going to dive off into a small market load, thats a high investment in time and resources to develop.

Exactly!
 

Plus there is the difficult task of dialing in the given propellant mix to the given hardware. It can be a trick with high
L/D motors. I dialed in a 2 gain 38 with the AT hardware using RCS phenolic nozzles, fiber disks and aftermarket
O rings. For liners I used thick McMaster Carr Garolite and clear Visi-Pak plastic tubing for packing tubes. I can take a brake cylinder hone to a fired liner and clean it out for two to three firings.

Testing can take time and it might not be easy to get consistency with that case on other formulas without resorting to a few tricks. The erosive nozzle can be a saviour or a bane depending upon how well one's guess is on the throat size.

Without going into details I cooked a 2 grain case where when I routinely removed the aft closure of a successful burn
and aluminum shards came out. Upon closer examination it was the threads of the aluminum case that came off. I didn't have to force the closure off either. I used adequate Grease. The case was trashed.

I'm not surprised they don't have another mix that can be flown in that case yet.

Maybe they have to use something exotic like Boron!:tongue::lol::jaw: Kurt
 
Confused....what about the other four loki loads for that case that'd pull mach/mile?

With a Loki 38mm 1200 case in hand, I held out hope that my local supplier could deliver the best-in-class Loki candidate K-627 reload kit for it before Michiana Rocketry's Mid-West Blast 2 (last April), but alas it wasn't to be. He did have a K-1127 on hand that I could have used, but Open Rocket showed, while faster, its predicted apogee would be within 200 feet of the AT J510 White Lightning (38/1320 case and kit for which I'd also already purchased, as "insurance"), so I went with the bird in hand. The other Loki reloads for the Loki 38mm 1200 case all simmed under the altitude predicted for the AT J510W, and thus weren't considered for this project...though I hope to try them out too, someday, now that I have the more versatile Loki hardware. But I wasn't disappointed a bit by the J510W's performance. It accomplished the mission...and put on a great show!

MS SLK 54 Open Rocket Apogee Predictions.JPG
Good skies,

Glueck AufMile-Mach Flight.JPG
 
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