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  1. #1
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Loc 5.5" Phoenix complete build

    Here is what is in the box I got from Loc. It is the yet to be released 5.5" Phoenix. Loc asked me to build it and do a build thread here.

    This is the full blown kit. It comes with dual deploy and a 75mm motor mount. I was told that there may be other configurations sold. Time will tell what those configurations will be.

    With work, family, and the holidays, the build will take some time, but in the end, it looks like it will be a stellar kit.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now for the disclaimer - Loc provided the kit to me at no cost in return for me building the kit and posting the build online. That being said, if I find any deficiencies with the kit, I will not hide them and talk about them here, after discussing with Jason and Dave.

    If every kit is packaged like this one was, there shouldn't ever be any damage in shipping. There were cardboard pieces taped to the inside of the box to keep anything from shifting in transit.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next up is what is included in the kit, component by component, including one very unique feature.

    Steve

    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  2. #2
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    It turns out I can only attach ten pictures per post, so this what's in the box post will continue below.

    The airframe is 27.25" of standard Loc thick wall cardboard airframe tubing. It is very stiff and has three slots cut in it for the through the wall fins. The little slot at the top will be explained further below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The motor mount is 17' of 75mm Loc MMT tubing.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There are three 1/4" thick centering rings included. The eyebolt was installed but not tightened. I will discuss eyebolts more when I get to this step in the build.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The payload section is 14.75" of the same airframe tube as the booster.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The airframe coupler is 11" long.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the ebay and a spacer that fit in the coupler above. They are shorter pieces of stiffy tube couplers. The one marked ebay is 5.5" long and the one that acts as a spacer is 5" long.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The sled is the same as in my 5.5"Loc Patriot. The four rod guides fit in slots in the sled and will be glued in place later in the build
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The ebay bulk plates came partially assembled on this kit, but nothing was tight. Everything will be re-done using Loc-tite, as appropriate. As above, eyebolts will be discussed when I get to motor mount construction
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The aft fins are through the wall and are 1/4" plywood.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The forward fins are also through the wall and 1/4" plywood. With the ten photo per post restriction, I will discuss the little tab at the forward end of the fin below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Continued below...

    Steve

    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  3. #3
    Join Date
    26th February 2017
    Posts
    63
    Subscribed!

    Looks like there is something interesting going on with the slots in the tube. What are those little ones up top for?
    NAR #102778
    L1 - Loc IV H123W, LDRS36
    L2 - Wildman Punisher 822J439, Red Glare 19

  4. #4
    Join Date
    29th November 2017
    Posts
    9
    If it's anything like their bigger phoenix, they're for very short tabs on the front of the fins that only stick in the width of the body tube and epoxy onto the coupler. You can see them at the tips of the fins

  5. #5
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    Merlrem is correct, although I haven't gotten into it far enough to figure out the coupler and AV bay arrangement. It is a little different.

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  6. #6
    Join Date
    20th February 2009
    Location
    Cayuga, Indiana
    Posts
    12,882
    Here's my build of the older (BB-81) version of the 5.5" Phoenix: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...-Missile-Build. I built mine with the standard LOC av-bay, but I don't remember if I bought that separately or if Barry included it in the kit at the time.
    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

    Quiet little voices creep into my head. -- We Were Promised Jetpacks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    What's in the box continued:

    Here is the nose cone. Notice the base has been removed by Loc.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the reason the base has been cut off the nose cone. This cool, laser engraved plate covers what I think is the most exciting part of this kit, a factory adjustable nose weight system. This will be a big part of the build, and I will make sure to document every step I take.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Under the cover plate is a centering ring and tube assembly that will hold the nose weight system.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here are all the pieces of the adjustable nose weight system. For those that may be familiar with the 7.5" version, this one is a little different.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This bag houses the drogue chute, main chute, nylon shock cords, and quick links.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now for the close ups of the small slot and tab at the front of the airframe and forward fin.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The small tab is sized to fit in the small slot and not protrude into the airframe. I have not dry fit anything, so I am not sure of the fit, but the idea is a great one. The front of the forward fin will not drift left or right as long fins have a habit of doing.

    That is all for now. I have a few questions in to Jason, who is on vacation. As soon as I get clarifications to a few things, I can start the actual build. Hopefully, that will not be too long.

    Thanks for looking,

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  8. #8
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    AV Bay - Part t

    Actual construction has commenced on the Phoenix

    First up is the AV bay.

    With the 10 picture per post limit, the AV bay will take two posts to complete.

    Per an e-mail from Jason, Loc wanted to have as much room in the booster as possible for the parachute gear that they created a special, short AV bay.

    My fist task was the sled. This is the same style of sled that is included with the 5.5" Phoenix I already have, so I was familiar with it. I like the design. Four all thread guides are glued into matching slots on the sleds, Here are the guides and the sled.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the guide glued into the sled, this is what you get:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The sled was put aside and work was started on the aft AV bay lid. Even though I am going to start out using motor deploy, since the aft AV bay lid will be permanently captured in the coupler, I needed to outfit it with a charge canister and terminal strip. With little room to load a charge canister deep in the coupler, I am looking at making the charge canister removable, so I can load it, then install it in the AV bay. I made sure I can get the wires into the terminal strip inside the AV bay. It's not easy, but it can be done without too much trouble.

    Here is the AV lid after sanding with the charge canister and terminal strip prior to installation.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The one deviation I am going to make from stock on this build is going to be replacing the stock, bent eye bolts with forged ones. The bent ones may be sufficient, but why risk disaster for only a few dollars in added parts. I understand the reasoning for including the ones Loc included. I am not knocking that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the completed AV bay lid.
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    Since this is a little different than your standard AV bay, I thought I would show what the stack will look like outside the coupler.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There are two sections of stiffy tube coupler. A short one that will stiffen the aft part of the coupler, reduce the chance of a zipper in the coupler, and allow the extra room for parachute gear.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The short stiffy tube goes into the aft part of the coupler and is marked AFT on mine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The completed AV bay lid goes on top of this. The longer section of stiffy tube goes next, sandwiching the AV bay lid in between the two sections of stiffy tube. Loc wrote FWD and EBAY on mine, so I would know which section of stiffy tube was which.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The removable AV bay lid completes the stack and will be covered below, in part 2

    The first task is to epoxy the short section of stiffy tube in to the aft part of the coupler. I am not sure if it was necessary, but I roughed up the outside of the two stiffy tubes with 80 grit sandpaper to make sure the epoxy has something to bite into. Then, I mixed up some West System epoxy and mixed in a little colloidal silica, just to thicken it up a little. Then, I ran a bead around the inside of the coupler, right at the aft edge of the coupler, then inserted the short section of stiffy tube into the coupler with AFT facing aft. I twisted the stiffy tube as I slowly slid it into the coupler, until the aft end was flush with the aft end of the coupler.

    I did not get a picture of the epoxy in this step. The picture below is from when I epoxied the AV bay section of stiffy tube into the coupler.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    To be continued later tonight...
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  9. #9
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    AV bay - part 2

    With the aft stiffy tube epoxied into the coupler, I set this assembly on some wax paper to make sure any residual epoxy did not get on my work surface.

    Pushing the aft stiffy tube into place pushed a small amount of epoxy out the forward end of the joint, leaving a little fillet all around the top of the aft stiffy tube. Before the epoxy dried (plenty of time with the West epoxy), I inserted the aft AV bay lid into the top of the coupler, ejection charge canister facing down. I pushed the lid all the way down until it was sitting on top of the aft stiffy tube and twisted it back and forth to distribute the epoxy evenly.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Don't use too much epoxy in this step, or it will run all down the inside of the aft stiffy and make a big mess.

    I let the epoxy cure long enough to be very tacky before moving on to the next step.

    Once I was sure the aft stiffy tube and AV bay lid were secured, I mixed up some more epoxy and colloidal silica and laid the coupler on its side. I ran another bead around the inside of the forward end of the coupler. This bead was further inside the coupler, as seen in the picture below, so there would be no epoxy at the end of the coupler, where the removable lid will be set for flight.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I inserted the AV bay stiffy into the forward end of the coupler with the arrow facing away from the coupler.

    As with the aft stiffy, I twisted the AV bay stiffy as I pressed it into the coupler until it was fully seated again the top side of the aft AV bay lid, as shown below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I then stood the coupler assembly upright on the wax paper and let it fully cure overnight.

    Up next was the forward bulkhead. Since this bulkhead will be removable, I did not add any ejection charge canister or terminal strip. I will add them later, when I move to using dual deployment on this rocket.

    The forward AV bay lid has the all thread rods permanently mounted to it, using nylon lock nuts on the outside and regular hex nuts on the inside. Loc sent me this partially assembled, so the lock nuts were already in place. I removed the hex nuts and all thread, so I could install the upgraded forged eye bolt, then re-installed the all thread.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I used Loctite 242 on the threads where the hex nuts would be tightened down. To help align the all thread, I slid the sled over the rods, added the Loctite, and tightened the hex nuts.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the completed AV bay with the lid installed:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here is a view of the aft end, showing the recessed AV bay lid and thumbscrews used to secure the forward AV bay lid.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is all for tonight.

    I have the next assembly completed and documented. Hopefully, I will be able to post it tomorrow night.

    Thanks for looking,

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  10. #10
    Join Date
    20th February 2009
    Location
    Cayuga, Indiana
    Posts
    12,882
    I like the "short" av-bay. I wonder if that will become a standard offering for LOC?

    From the Ether...
    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

    Quiet little voices creep into my head. -- We Were Promised Jetpacks

  11. #11
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I like the "short" av-bay. I wonder if that will become a standard offering for LOC?

    From the Ether...
    I'm not sure about this one. You can always reach out to Loc and ask them directly.

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  12. #12
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Removable Nose Weight System

    As with the AV bay, the removable nose weight system will take two posts to complete.

    I will be following along with the instructions Loc sent me for the 7.5" version of this system. For those familiar with that version, you will recognize a couple of differences.

    The first thing that needs to be done is the inside of the nose cone needs to be roughed up with some 80 grit sandpaper to allow the epoxy to adhere to the nose cone. The inside shoulder area also needs to be roughed up.

    Next, I thoroughly washed the nose cone inside and out and let it fully dry.

    The first step is to install the tee nuts into the centering ring. Here is what you will need.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here is the ring after the nuts have been hammered home.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I epoxied the back of the tee nuts to the centering ring with some epoxy thickened with colloidal silica. Unfortunately, the picture I took was not usable, so you'll just have to imagine what it looks like.

    Squeeze the nose cone a little bit to allow the centering ring to pass through.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pull the ring towards the nose cone shoulder until it is sitting tight against the shoulder, and you are happy with the fit.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Epoxy the ring in place by dribbling some epoxy though the hole in the nose cone, rotating the cone to distribute the epoxy evenly and standing the cone upright to cure.

    Warning - do not use too much epoxy or thicken the epoxy too much. If the epoxy is too thick, it will not run into place, like it should. And if you use too much epoxy, you might get it into the tee nuts, which would be very bad. Don't ask how I know. I am the proud owner of a new 10-24 tap, though.

    Install the included bulkhead into the end of the 54mm motor tube.

    I roughed up both ends of the 54mm motor tube to give the epoxy something to grab onto when it is installed in the nose cone. I marked which way was aft, as I roughened up more length on the forward end in case there was more epoxy bonding the tube to the nose cone. The aft end only needs to be roughed up the first 1/4" or so.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    To install the bulk plate, I pushed the bulk plate into the forward end of the motor tube an inch or so, then ran a very thin line of epoxy around the end of the tube. I then used the two coupler sections to push the bulk plate forward, until it was flush with the end of the tube. Remove the coupler sections immediately, so the forward has no possibility of getting epoxied to the tube. I then cleaned up any epoxy that leaked out of the joint.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The reason I installed the bulk plate this way was because of the shorter coupler sections sliding into the motor tube, I did not want any extra epoxy preventing the forward coupler section from seating all the way against the bulk plate.

    The next step is straight from the instructions for the 7.5" Phoenix. I just changed the size of the motor tube to match this one.

    "With the cone laying horizontally on your work surface mix up some medium cure epoxy. Drizzle epoxy a good half way down the cone rotating it. We want to ensure there is enough epoxy to run down securing the 54mm HD MMT to the plastic. Insert the 54mm HD MMT into the ring and down as far as the tube will go. Stand the cone up with the forward end facing the ground and allow the epoxy to run down and cure."

    I also rand a bead of epoxy around the hole in the centering ring so the aft end of the tube would be epoxied to the centering ring, as it indicated can be done in the instructions.

    I rotated the nose cone for a few minutes to evenly distribute the epoxy at the MMT nose cone joint, then let it cure nose cone point facing down.

    When the epoxy cures, this is what you will see looking into the nose cone.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The next order of business was to build up the coupler that will be the nose weight. First, I assembled the bulk plate with a forged eye bolt and tightened the nut.
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    I did not use any epoxy on the nut of this assembly since it will eventually be buried in weight and epoxy.

    To complete the weight cartridge, as I have come to call it, epoxy the bulk plate assembly into the tube of your choice. I chose the longer one in case I need a lot of weight.

    When the epoxy cures, this is what you end up with.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The removable nose weight assembly will be completed in the next post later tonight.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  13. #13
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Removable Nose Weight System - Part 2

    Continuing from above, here is a picture of the inside of the weight cartridge.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is it for the construction of the removable nose weight system.

    Here is how to set it up for use.

    First, you would connect the end of your shock cord to the eye bolt on the weight cartridge, using a quick link. I am not going to do this here, as I have a long way to go before I get to the point I need to do this.

    Next, you insert the weight cartridge into the MMT in the nose cone as shown below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next, the shock cord would be threaded through the second coupler section, and it is slid into the MMT in the nose cone, pushing the weight cartridge to the very forward end of the nose cone.
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    Next, the shock cord gets threaded thought the cover plate and the plate is set into the end of the nose cone. I really like the laser engraving on this plate.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Finally, secure the plate in place with the included screws and washers. This is where I had to run out and purchase that 1/4-20 tap, so I could re-thread one of the tee nuts and rid it of epoxy residue.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I need to do some work on the ebay coupler and get some nylon screws to use as shear pins. Once that is all done, I will document it and post it here.

    Stay tuned for more...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    I have started work on preparing the booster airframe. It will likely be a few more days before any more updates, unless I make some unexpected progress.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  15. #15
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    A little bonus coverage tonight.

    In an e-mail exchange with Jason, he sent me a link to a build by a guy who has built a lot of Loc kits. He peels off the glassine where the fin fillets go to get the best possible adhesion of the epoxy to the airframe.

    I have never done this before, so I decided to give it a try. Some time later, here is what I had sitting in front of me.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Because the forward fins span the two slots, I thought it would be prudent to peel the glassine between the two slots, and Jason agreed, so that is what I did.

    Next up will be figuring out the placement of the three centering rings, so I can begin the process of constructing the booster.

    Until next time.

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  16. #16
    Join Date
    21st January 2009
    Location
    Manitowoc, WI
    Posts
    2,287
    Quote Originally Posted by smoon View Post
    A little bonus coverage tonight.

    In an e-mail exchange with Jason, he sent me a link to a build by a guy who has built a lot of Loc kits. He peels off the glassine where the fin fillets go to get the best possible adhesion of the epoxy to the airframe.

    I have never done this before, so I decided to give it a try. Some time later, here is what I had sitting in front of me.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Because the forward fins span the two slots, I thought it would be prudent to peel the glassine between the two slots, and Jason agreed, so that is what I did.

    Next up will be figuring out the placement of the three centering rings, so I can begin the process of constructing the booster.

    Until next time.

    Steve
    A good idea indeed...better bonding!

    Love a big Phoenix, especially when they're stable. Looking good so far; glad to see the effort on the front end of the rocket!

    -Eric-
    Eric Cayemberg
    TRA 7783 L3
    TAP

  17. #17
    Join Date
    10th December 2011
    Location
    Huntington, IN
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by ECayemberg View Post
    A good idea indeed...better bonding!

    Love a big Phoenix, especially when they're stable. Looking good so far; glad to see the effort on the front end of the rocket!

    -Eric-
    And where have you ever seen an unstable one


    Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    23rd November 2016
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    121
    Looking Good Steve!!! If you need sheer pins shoot us an e-mail. We have them and a tap in stock and we'll just send it out
    Get Up There!!!


    www.locprecision.com
    Dave@locprecision
    920-892-0557

  19. #19
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by LOC View Post
    Looking Good Steve!!! If you need sheer pins shoot us an e-mail. We have them and a tap in stock and we'll just send it out
    Thanks to my local parts surplus place, I got plenty of 4-40 nylon screws for .05 a piece.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  20. #20
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    My apologies for the delay in posting. Due to a measuring issue that is totally on me, I epoxied the forward centering ring onto the motor mount an inch too far aft, blocking part of the forward fin slot.

    I measured three times, and still somehow managed to transfer the measurement wrong.

    Loc sent me a new motor mount tube and centering ring, and I am almost back to where I was.

    I have completed the payload section, except for the altimeter vent holes, which I still need to calculate and drill.

    I am hoping I will have time to post this part tonight, and the first part of the booster section tomorrow or Friday, before I leave for a week's vacation

    Thanks for looking,

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  21. #21
    Join Date
    27th January 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,392
    I guess you could have just cut a slot in the fin tab for the centering ring and that would have given an extra glue surface.....

    Frank


    Quote Originally Posted by smoon View Post
    My apologies for the delay in posting. Due to a measuring issue that is totally on me, I epoxied the forward centering ring onto the motor mount an inch too far aft, blocking part of the forward fin slot.

    I measured three times, and still somehow managed to transfer the measurement wrong.

    Loc sent me a new motor mount tube and centering ring, and I am almost back to where I was.

    I have completed the payload section, except for the altimeter vent holes, which I still need to calculate and drill.

    I am hoping I will have time to post this part tonight, and the first part of the booster section tomorrow or Friday, before I leave for a week's vacation

    Thanks for looking,

    Steve

  22. #22
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by burkefj View Post
    I guess you could have just cut a slot in the fin tab for the centering ring and that would have given an extra glue surface.....

    Frank
    I was going to do that, but Loc offered up the new tube and ring, so I accepted on the grounds that I want the build to reflect a properly assembled rocket.

    If it was a kit I bought, that is exactly what I would have done.

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  23. #23
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Booster build - motor mount prep

    So, as I said above, I transferred the measurement for the forward centering ring one inch off, resulting in the forward centering ring being epoxied too far back and in the way of the forward fins. Loc offered to send me a new tube and centering ring, which I took them up on and am now where I was when I discovered my mistake.

    Without further ado, here is the motor mount prep.

    First, I peeled the glassine off the motor mount tube, which was a fairly easy task, using my Xacto knife to lift the glassine wrap at the end of the tube, and slowly peeling it back as I turned the tube, until it was completely peeled off. When I was done, this is what I was left with, a naked motor mount that will soak up epoxy far better than one that is just scuffed up.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the one I got the marking wrong on. You can see the pencil mark at the top of the tube is way too far back.

    Here are the other items needed for this step, the forward centering ring, forged eyebolt, two washers, and a nut.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next I mixed up a little epoxy and tacked the forward centering ring in place, turning and measuring every 90 degrees, making needed adjustments until the ring was the same distance from the end of the tube all the way around and at the pencil mark. I had enough epoxy that I made a small fillet using a popsicle stick.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I let the tube cure horizontally, so the ring would not slide out of place while it was curing.

    Here is the little fillet after the eyebolt was installed. I decided it was not enough fillet, so a bigger one will be added below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    When the epoxy has fully cured. I installed the forged eyebolt, washers, and nut salvaged from the screwed up motor mount. I oriented the eyebolt at a 45 degree angle from the motor tube, which will facilitate attaching the quick link in a future step.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Finally, it was time for the fillets. I mixed up some epoxy and colloidal silica until the mixture was just thick enough not to run, so I could do both sides at once. I placed a ring of epoxy on the top side joint of the motor mount and centering ring and created a fillet using a jumbo craft stick to scrape away the excess epoxy and form the fillet. I also used a smaller stick to make a fillet where the eyebolt is, since the large craft stick would not fit in that space.

    Here is the finished and cured fillet.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I thine turned my attention to the bottom of the centering ring and created a fillet in exactly the same way as the top side. I also added some epoxy to the eyebolt threads, nut, and washer. Since this side will be buried in the fin can, it needs to stay secured permanently.

    Here is the aft side fillet.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The motor mount is currently curing inside the airframe. With any luck, I will be able to sand the forward fins tonight and get then epoxied into place. If luck is not on my side, that will need to wait until I return from vacation.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  24. #24
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Motor mount installation

    I installed the motor mount yesterday. Not much to explain here. I ran a bead of epoxy thickened with colloidal silica around the inside of the airframe right above the forward fin slots, then slid the motor mount most of the way into the airframe. The aft centering ring was pushed into place in the airframe to make sure the motor mount was centered properly, then the motor mount was pushed into position. The forward centering ring is right at the top of the forward fin slot. This will give another point of adhesion for the forward fin. One of the forward fins was slid into its slot to prevent to the motor mount from sliding aft as the epoxy cured.

    There was enough epoxy pushed up from the motor mount insertion that I was able to create the fillet needed at the airframe/centering ring joint using a large craft stick.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This assembly was propped up on a couple of small boxes to cure since the motor mount sticks out the aft end of the rocket just a little.

    While this was curing, I sanded the forward fins. When the motor mount epoxy was mostly cured, I mixed up more epoxy and attached the forward fins. This was a step I really wanted to get to before going on vacation, and I just made it.

    Here is the airframe with the forward fins curing. Those are 3D printed fin guides spacing out the fins. My printer is not big enough to print the whole thing, so I cut it into four pieces and used spring clamps to hold them in place.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One more quick update, then it is off to Mexico for Christmas.

    If I have some time there, I will post the rest of the payload section build.

    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  25. #25
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    Here is the update I promised. With the forward fin epoxies in place, I decided to finally do a mostly dry fit.

    Here is what she will look like when complete.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  26. #26
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Payload tube completion - Part 1

    With vacation behind me, let's get back to the build.

    I am making progress on the booster, but before I post on that, let's get caught up on how I finished up (well, mostly) the payload section.

    My first task was to mark the tube, so I made four marks equally spaced around the payload tube and extended them the length of the tube using a length of angle aluminum.

    I decided to use four 4-40 nylon screws as shear pins for this rocket, since I am not sure how much nose weight will be needed, and I am afraid 2-56 screws may not be enough.

    I measured the length of the nose cone shoulder, then divided this measurement in half to set the distance from the end of the payload tube to make the holes for the shear pins. With the marks made, I used my RC car body reamer to make starter holes at each of the marks to keep the drill from slipping off the mark. Even with this, you will see below that my holes were not perfectly aligned with the lines or marks. Some day I will figure out a better way to do this.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the holes marked, I inserted the nose cone into the payload tube, making sure it was the end with the marks for the holes and taped it in place to make sure the nose cone did not move during the drilling of the holes. I drilled the first hole using the bit that came with the tap I will be using to tap the holes for the screws. I completed one hole at a time, to make sure all the screws fit as intended.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next, I tapped the hole with my 4-40 tap for the nylon screw to thread into.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lastly, I threaded the nylon screw into the tapped hole and snugged it up.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I moved around the payload tube, completing each screw hole, until all four were installed.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  27. #27
    Join Date
    14th September 2014
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by smoon View Post
    With vacation behind me, let's get back to the build.

    I am making progress on the booster, but before I post on that, let's get caught up on how I finished up (well, mostly) the payload section.

    My first task was to mark the tube, so I made four marks equally spaced around the payload tube and extended them the length of the tube using a length of angle aluminum.

    I decided to use four 4-40 nylon screws as shear pins for this rocket, since I am not sure how much nose weight will be needed, and I am afraid 2-56 screws may not be enough.

    I measured the length of the nose cone shoulder, then divided this measurement in half to set the distance from the end of the payload tube to make the holes for the shear pins. With the marks made, I used my RC car body reamer to make starter holes at each of the marks to keep the drill from slipping off the mark. Even with this, you will see below that my holes were not perfectly aligned with the lines or marks. Some day I will figure out a better way to do this.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the holes marked, I drilled the first hole using the bit that came with the tap I will be using to tap the holes for the screws. I completed on hole at a time to make all the screws fit as intended, in the end.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next, I tapped the hole with my 4-40 tap for the nylon screw to thread into.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lastly, I threaded the nylon screw into the tapped hole and snugged it up.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I moved around the payload tube, completing each screw hole, until all four were installed.
    Do you notice any elongation in cardboard tubing using shear-pins? I have used 4-40s in the LOC Bruiser EXP and they are pretty sloppy now (3 flights). I doused the drilled (before tap) holes with CA but maybe not enough to harden them deeply?
    Randy Kennedy

    L1 - Scott's Special 1 (Vlad the Impaler), CTI I345, fall 2014 (R.I.P. Apr 2015)
    L2 - Mad Dog DD (Aftershock), CTI J449, spring 2015
    L3 - 8" Fiberglass DX3 XL (Crowd Pleaser), CTI M1890, June 3 2017 (it's baaaack!)

  28. #28
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170

    Payload tube completion - Part 2

    I did not get as many pictures of this step as I should have, but the missing pictures are of the same preparation steps as above, so refer to the section above.

    I will be making the ebay removable, so I needed to figure out where the holes neededto be drilled. I measured the ebay, which was 11" long. Half of the ebay will be in the payload tube, so that makes 5.5" inside the payload tube.Wanting the screws to be evenly spaced along the length of the inserted part of the ebay meant the holes needed to be drilled 2.75" from the aft end of the payload tube. I marked the locations of all four holes on the lines drawn earlier and made the same sort of starter holes I made above.

    I then marked the ebay at 5.5", inserted the forward end of the ebay into the payload tube until the half way mark was at the aft end of the payload tube, and taped the ebay in place to hold it while completing the rest of the steps.

    As with the nose cone holes I will be drilling these one at a time to make sure the screws all fit at the end.

    I am using 8-32 screws to hold the ebay in place. Since these are pretty beefy screws, I decided to drill a pilot hole and enlarge it until I had a hole big enough to slip the 8-32 screw through. Once the hole was the right size, I inserted a screw into the hole and moved to the next hole.

    Here is one of the screws in position.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Once the holes were all drilled I separated the ebay from the payload tube and cleaned up the holes on the outside of the payload tube and the inside of the ebay.

    Next, I inserted a screw into one of the holes in the ebay and tightened a nut onto the screw. I repeated this for the other three holes.

    Screw from the outside of the ebay:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    From the inside of the ebay:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next, I needed to secure the nuts in place. I mixed up some BSI 30 minute epoxy and dabbed a little on each nut, only enough to hold it in place, and let cure. Be sure not to get any epoxy on the screw, or you will have big troubles later.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Once the epoxy cured, I removed the screws and added more epoxy to completely surround the nuts and lock them in place.

    I am using flat head screws, so I needed to counter sink the screw holes in the payload tube.

    The first step here was to soak the screw holes and surrounding area with some thin CA to strengthen the material. Experience has shown that missing this step leads to misshapen holes and possible torn cardboard. Let the CA completely cure before moving on.

    I inserted the ebay back into the payload tube and snugged up two of the screws. I carefully countersunk the two open holes, checking their diameter often to make sure I didn't enlarge the holes too much. Once the first two holes were done, I moved the screws to the newly countersunk holes and carefully countersunk the remaining two holes.

    Once all four holes were completed, I removed the ebay and gave each hole another round of thin CA to harden the cardboard. Lastly, I cleaned up the holes of any stray cardboard, inside the tube and out, using some 320 grit sandpaper. Further finishing will be done during the finishing stage of the Phoenix.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the holes finished I assembled the payload section. Here is one of the screws in its countersunk hole.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And finally the mostly completed payload section.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The only thing I have left to do is add vent holes for my electronics. I will do this before the finishing stage.

    Thanks again for looking.
    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

  29. #29
    Join Date
    4th July 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    465
    Any further progress on this interesting build?
    UKRA #1895
    EARS #1329
    L1 6/9/15 Custom built LOC Fantom 438 CTI H125
    L2 3/4/16 Same custom built LOC Fantom w/ DD EXL configuration CTI J410

  30. #30
    Join Date
    24th January 2015
    Posts
    170
    My apologies, there is plenty of progress on the Phoenix. With vacations, work, family, etc., I just have not had a chance to post updates.

    In the real world, the it is complete, has flown, and is on bench mid-repair (I'll get to that after the build).

    I will try to post an update or two before the week is out.

    Steve

    L1 - 11/14/2015 Public Missiles Ariel CTI H90 890'
    L2 - 03/11/2017 Madcow Nike Smoke AT J250W 2500'
    L3 - Maybe after my kids leave the house

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