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  1. #1
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    H210 Redline reload wouldn't ignite

    I tried to use a 29mm H210 Redline reload yesterday, but it wouldn't ignite. I tried it twice, both times with FirstFire ignitors. The reload is a few years old, but was still sealed in the package. I assembled the motor Thursday, and put it in a Ziploc bag. I've never had a problem lighting a Redline before. Could the inside of the grain be oxidized? Should I have tried scraping it?

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    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  2. #2
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    Redline does oxidize, but those grains look pretty good. It is tougher to light. I can't tell if you have pictures of a chuff, or if the igniter is falling out and landing on the blast deflector. Guessing a chuff.

    I have better luck with my own igniters than I do with first fires lighting hard to light propellants. I'd try something like one of the Quick Burst straw igniters.

    Kevin Wuchevich
    Tripoli Pittsburgh
    TRA 12238

  3. #3
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    I have found Redline to be the most difficult to ignite when the reload kits are "old". I usually shave off (or scrape) the oxidized layer inside the cores and add a pyrodex pellet at the top. I have also buttered the top third or so of the top grain with pyrogen (I use Rocketflite's MagneLite or QuickBurst's QuickDip). All of these prep steps help, but I have shifted my new motor purchasing preferences away from Redline towards other varietals. I don't like the "walk of shame" to and from the pad to replace igniters when I have a motor fail to ignite.
    Dwayne Shmel
    TRA 13137 / NAR 88172
    Tulsa Rocketry
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    I tried to use a 29mm H210 Redline reload yesterday, but it wouldn't ignite. I tried it twice, both times with FirstFire ignitors. The reload is a few years old, but was still sealed in the package. I assembled the motor Thursday, and put it in a Ziploc bag. I've never had a problem lighting a Redline before. Could the inside of the grain be oxidized? Should I have tried scraping it?
    I have a box of Redline grains that look just like your 4th picture.
    Dwayne Shmel
    TRA 13137 / NAR 88172
    Tulsa Rocketry
    K.L.O.U.D. Busters
    L3

  5. #5
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    It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

    How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

    The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.


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    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
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  6. #6
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    H210 Redline reload wouldn't ignite

    Like Mark says it looks like you spit the starter out before it did its job. How large of a hole did you cut in the red plastic nozzle cap. A larger hole reduces back pressure and allows the starter to remain in the motor longer.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkoelsch View Post
    It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

    How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

    The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
    Newer redline motors have the delay grain separately packaged from the grains iirc and the grains may be individually sealed in bags as well, it been a while since I have flown a redline.
    Rich

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  8. #8
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    25th June 2014
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    I missed this one too. I had a decade old white lightning yesterday that I had scraped and it still didn't go. As mentioned above already, nothing a little pyrogen helper wouldn't cure. It did go up smoothly on the second go. I'd recommend this route.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    Like Mark says it looks like you spit the starter out before it did its job. How large of a hole did you cut in the red plastic nozzle cap. A larger hole reduces back pressure and allows the starter to remain in the motor longer.

    Steve Shannon
    Quote Originally Posted by markkoelsch View Post
    It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

    How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

    The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.
    @Steve: The hole was just big enough for the wire. @Mark: It was held in by the nozzle cap, with two loops of wire inside to hold the ignitor against the delay grain. The delay grain didn't light that I know of, but I'll double check it. And by the way, both times it blew the cap off.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Newer redline motors have the delay grain separately packaged from the grains iirc and the grains may be individually sealed in bags as well, it been a while since I have flown a redline.
    Yes, this one had the delay grain and all the propellant grains sealed in their own plastic bags.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshmel View Post
    I have a box of Redline grains that look just like your 4th picture.
    They didn't look like that when I assembled the motor.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  12. #12
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    You know, I do remember this happening several years ago with an I245 Mojave Green. If I recall, I replaced it with one of my homemade ignitors, and it lit right up the second time.



    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    @Steve: The hole was just big enough for the wire. @Mark: It was held in by the nozzle cap, with two loops of wire inside to hold the ignitor against the delay grain. The delay grain didn't light that I know of, but I'll double check it. And by the way, both times it blew the cap off.
    I would cut a larger hole. When the cap blew off it took the igniter with it. All that heat coming from the igniter after it ejected was wasted. It might have ignited the motor otherwise.
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    I would cut a larger hole. When the cap blew off it took the igniter with it. All that heat coming from the igniter after it ejected was wasted. It might have ignited the motor otherwise.
    I won't be able to try again until next month, but I'll try that then. Should I also try the tape-the-ignitor-to-a-stick trick?
    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    I won't be able to try again until next month, but I'll try that then. Should I also try the tape-the-ignitor-to-a-stick trick?
    I would not on a small motor like this. You donít want anything to block a relatively significant amount of the area of the nozzle.
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    I would not on a small motor like this. You don’t want anything to block a relatively significant amount of the area of the nozzle.
    Makes sense.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by qquake2k View Post
    I won't be able to try again until next month, but I'll try that then. Should I also try the tape-the-ignitor-to-a-stick trick?
    Make sure and clean the black crap off the grain though, the residue may make lighting it even harder otherwise.
    Rich

    NAR# 99154

    L3-4x upscale Estes Cherokee-D- AT M1297W 5/28/2016 http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...r-rharshberger

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  18. #18
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    Steve... I've used small shish-la-bob skewers or even Broom straws [pulled out of broom head] to hold lighter[taped on] in place, for clusters or old motors where there is a risk of blowing igniter out the arse, from chuffing.
    It gets vaporized instantly from exhaust.. only the wire remains .

    I have never found a dowel-stick-tube from holding igniters in place, unburnt on ground. Of course if you "over do it" that will always land ya in trouble.

    Leave off the nozzle cap & rest stick on blast plate or tape it to nozzle/closure. Just a bit of tape, don't turn it into the "mummy"....
    Yeah won't work on propellant with tiny nozzle throat, but white, blue & red are fairly open in this size.

    Happy Holidays by the way!
    Jim Hendricksen
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Make sure and clean the black crap off the grain though, the residue may make lighting it even harder otherwise.
    I'm going to switch the grains around, and put one of the middle ones on top. I'll also sand the inside of it to make sure there's no oxidation.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack2564 View Post
    Steve... I've used small shish-la-bob skewers or even Broom straws [pulled out of broom head] to hold lighter[taped on] in place, for clusters or old motors where there is a risk of blowing igniter out the arse, from chuffing.
    It gets vaporized instantly from exhaust.. only the wire remains .

    I have never found a dowel-stick-tube from holding igniters in place, unburnt on ground. Of course if you "over do it" that will always land ya in trouble.

    Leave off the nozzle cap & rest stick on blast plate or tape it to nozzle/closure. Just a bit of tape, don't turn it into the "mummy"....
    Yeah won't work on propellant with tiny nozzle throat, but white, blue & red are fairly open in this size.

    Happy Holidays by the way!
    Thanks Jim! Merry Christmas!
    If youíve done it, I would trust it. I use the red caps, but I cut a big hole. A broom straw is smart!

    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

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