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  1. #1
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    wireless model rocket controllers

    Hi, if anyone is interested in a wireless model rocket controller, just let me know. The rf module says it has a range of about 260 ft. I can custom build one for you inside an ammo box as I have built for myself or any kind of box, your choice. I usually add a key switch and a rocket launch switch to turn the rf module on. These switches are very cool looking. I also add a fuse, charge port, and a continuity check. Price will be the price of the parts and labor will be 100 dollars. I just got thru with a remote controlled rocket launcher. I've also made a wired rocket controller out of a N64 controller. Just let me know, my email is owens@crockettnet.com. Thanks and God bless.


  2. #2
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    Doing it for yourself is one thing. Doing it for a close friend is another. Doing it publicly might open yourself up for some liability if something goes wrong or
    if you are flirting around with FCC rules. Jes' say'in. Kurt


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksaves2 View Post
    Doing it for yourself is one thing. Doing it for a close friend is another. Doing it publicly might open yourself up for some liability if something goes wrong or
    if you are flirting around with FCC rules. Jes' say'in. Kurt
    Hi, I’m not sure how to make it any safer. Just let me know what I need to do. What rules am I playing with? Apogeerockets sales a wireless controller similar to one I build. Things will go wrong if a person is not carefull and safe, in my opinion. The rocket launch toggle switch is covered to prevent turning it on accidentally. The key switch prevents someone else from turning it on. I built them for safety so someone can get a far distance from harm. Thanks for your help in advance.

  4. #4
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    With things like this, you HAVE to make sure you are protected. Probably means insurance and setting up an LLC, but then you have to make sure you sell enough and are making enough profit to make it worthwhile. If someone gets injured, even through user error while using your project, there is a chance that they could sue you and you do NOT want that to happen. If you are not an LLC, if the ruling in said lawsuit is against you, they can take your house, your car, garnish your wages etc... there is a HUGE liability with things like this, and you should research the potential risks of what could go wrong, and figure out if you would like to continue.
    Tom
    NAR #83620 L2 soon to be L3 :rolleyes:

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoehahn View Post
    With things like this, you HAVE to make sure you are protected. Probably means insurance and setting up an LLC, but then you have to make sure you sell enough and are making enough profit to make it worthwhile. If someone gets injured, even through user error while using your project, there is a chance that they could sue you and you do NOT want that to happen. If you are not an LLC, if the ruling in said lawsuit is against you, they can take your house, your car, garnish your wages etc... there is a HUGE liability with things like this, and you should research the potential risks of what could go wrong, and figure out if you would like to continue.
    Having an LLC is a good start. But itís not enough. You will always be liable for your own negligence, even if you are working for an LLC. What the LLC does is protect the owner of the LLC from liability for the negligence of the LLCís employees (except the ownerís own negligence even if the owner is also an employee). So if youíre going to run a business with any potential for hurting someone, set up an LLC and get adequate insurance.


    Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

  6. #6
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    22nd September 2017
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    For the FCC stuff. Make sure your not broadcasting over the 434.55 MHz (70 cm HAM) or higher frequencies and that whatever your testing isn't frying your neighbors TV or jamming a US military satellite punishable by a fines but up to a felony. Lol. And the scary part is as a licensed Ham operator its your responsibility not to mess up after you've studied 426 questions, passed, and paid your $15 to use high frequencies as a hobby.

    Once I was playing with a TeleGPS and UV-5R and flipping through channels on my UV5R with the ham technician license in hand and I heard a beep static beep static beep. I googled the frequency and Google referred to TACSAT-4 belonging to the US Navy. And God knows it was probably guiding precision weapons on a GPS datalink or relaying Intel. Just don't even push to talk on those frequencies unless you like a couple of fast Ropers.. And calmly flip to an vacated channel.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggyhow View Post
    Hi, I’m not sure how to make it any safer. Just let me know what I need to do. What rules am I playing with? Apogeerockets sales a wireless controller similar to one I build. Things will go wrong if a person is not carefull and safe, in my opinion. The rocket launch toggle switch is covered to prevent turning it on accidentally. The key switch prevents someone else from turning it on. I built them for safety so someone can get a far distance from harm. Thanks for your help in advance.
    No, incase it shocks someone you are liable dude. Have an electrical engineer sign off on the design before you sell it commercially, could save your ass if a moron chunks it in water and tries to sue you. An LLC with save the business and yourself at a bare min. The PE engineer's signature will hold more credit than your word as he/she is an expert in design. Might want to put logos on the boxes like safety warnings and have user manuals. People are exploiting the legal system to sue manufacturers after doing the dumb things like pouring raw gasoline on a fire from a gas can, yes the poor manufacturer got sued for that kind of crap.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggyhow View Post
    Hi, if anyone is interested in a wireless model rocket controller, just let me know. ... Price will be the price of the parts and labor will be 100 dollars...
    Ouch... $100 + parts and not even a picture to show what we get???

    Here is a "Wireless Firing system" from Ebay $13.90. The price includes shipping.

    What makes yours worth so much more?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -Scott Sager
    NAR 91621 L2
    TRA 15982 L2
    Woosh #558
    KC9WQK

  9. #9
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    22nd September 2017
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    People in Brazil were punished by the FCC for accidentally interfering with US military satellites. The poor idiots only heard static on their ends. The reality was it was encrypted comms which was interfered with by people taking advantage of the long transmitting range. The Brazilian and US military forces responded. The other usual FCC cases are the guy in a basement without a HAM license getting fined $30,000 for each transmission in high power bandwidths so it's worth it to get a FCC tech license for $15. Pass 26 questions of 35, it's good for ten years. Cheap legal protection from FCC incase you do wander into bands your not suppose too.

  10. #10
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    22nd September 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by scsager View Post
    Ouch... $100 + parts and not even a picture to show what we get???

    Here is a "Wireless Firing system" from Ebay $13.90. The price includes shipping.

    What makes yours worth so much more?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	s-l1600 (1).jpg 
Views:	128 
Size:	45.2 KB 
ID:	333320
    He customizes the box.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    ... Cheap legal protection from FCC incase you do wander into bands your not suppose too.
    I think you are talking about the technicians license.

    There is no charge for the License. None! The test administrator may charge a small testing fee. There is no cost for the license. A tech ticket allows the station operator to transmit on certain amateur frequencies above 30 mhz and within certain power limits.

    A license in no-way PROTECTS the station operator from prosecution for operation outside the limits granted by the license.
    -Scott Sager
    NAR 91621 L2
    TRA 15982 L2
    Woosh #558
    KC9WQK

  12. #12
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    An FCC amateur license has nothing to do with selling a wireless device. The device itself has to be testing for compliance with the FCC regulations it operates within.

    Too much other misinformation in the thread to know where to start.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
    My LinkedIn Profile

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scsager View Post
    I think you are talking about the technicians license.

    There is no charge for the License. None! The test administrator may charge a small testing fee. There is no cost for the license. A tech ticket allows the station operator to transmit on certain amateur frequencies above 30 mhz and within certain power limits.

    A license in no-way PROTECTS the station operator from prosecution for operation outside the limits granted by the license.
    Yeah I'm KN4EOU. It was a $15 exam fee to take the technican exam at a radio club. Then the cost of paper and ink to print the official license copy after FCC approval. And if you read my earlier posts the HAM operator has the responsibility of knowing what they can and can't transmit on. The license gives him the ability to operate in frequencies legally versus wandering into those frequencies unlicensed and getting the **** sued out of him.

  14. #14
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    If he has an FCC license and builds a GPS jammer. He is just as [profanity] as without one. In that sense the technician license has no protection. You can't break laws and expect protection. It's a privilege you are to operate in X bandwidths. Let's say he's toying with electronics in the garage and accidentally goes above the 30MHz bandwidth, a FCC license has granted him the ability to operate in those frequencies. The FCC might complain not using proper protocol about transmitting his callsign. But he isn't going to face a thirty thousand dollar fine for unlicensed operation into that bandwidth after obtaining a license. In that sense the $15 exam fee is well spent money.
    Last edited by Peartree; 3rd December 2017 at 03:04 AM. Reason: language

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    An FCC amateur license has nothing to do with selling a wireless device. The device itself has to be testing for compliance with the FCC regulations it operates within.

    Too much other misinformation in the thread to know where to start.
    The FCC will have additional rulings on that matter. Infact they prosecute most GPS jammer manufacturers too. The tech license gives him the freedom to test his designs with coverage into higher bandwidths for more range and without prosecution for exploring the higher bandwidths that the license allows. The amateur license has everything about an individual testing an individual design before selling it.

  16. #16
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    22nd September 2017
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    People do manufacture GPS jammers for law enforcement use legally. I'm sure the FCC has an entirely different legal route to protect the manufacturer for legitimate uses of an otherwise illegal to make or sell device. The manufacturers of jammers only sell to Feds or military. The OP can go to FCC website and ask them all the questions he wants about device compliance as a manufacturer.

  17. #17
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    And the FDA regulates IR lasers and the sale of such products to LE or military. Someone somehow had permission to manufacture and sell those devices through an approval process. Everything is regulated because of lawyers. You just need to find the right path and licenses then damn near anything is legal and doable.

    He may want a local and state business license while he's at it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    The FCC will have additional rulings on that matter. Infact they prosecute most GPS jammer manufacturers too. The tech license gives him the freedom to test his designs with coverage into higher bandwidths for more range and without prosecution for exploring the higher bandwidths that the license allows. The amateur license has everything about an individual testing an individual design before selling it.
    No, you don't know what you're talking about. An amateur license has nothing to do with commercial design, testing, and manufacturing of FCC-compliant devices. I do this for a living. So, stop posting misinformation. And while you're at it, stop using profanity on this forum.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
    My LinkedIn Profile

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    He customizes the box.
    Hi, thanks for replying to that. A customized box is worth a lot more than an eBay product. Time and money spent on features.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    The FCC will have additional rulings on that matter. Infact they prosecute most GPS jammer manufacturers too. The tech license gives him the freedom to test his designs with coverage into higher bandwidths for more range and without prosecution for exploring the higher bandwidths that the license allows. The amateur license has everything about an individual testing an individual design before selling it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    No, you don't know what you're talking about. An amateur license has nothing to do with commercial design, testing, and manufacturing of FCC-compliant devices. I do this for a living. So, stop posting misinformation. And while you're at it, stop using profanity on this forum.
    ASC, also please stop replying to yourself. I get that you're excited to be a brilliant young engineer who shows all those liberal arts majors what's up by blasting past us crusty old know-nothings, but it makes threads a bit difficult to sift.

  21. #21
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    No man. I'm just passing time trolling these people. I know my HAM license lets me play with electronics in my garage without selling them. This guy then takes every sentence I say and turns into another discussion because he knows the official process that no one else knows. Guy could just explain the process. I don't know everything nor claim that I do.

  22. #22
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    You old crusty farts know more than my whole life is worth. Getting you guys to talk is the hard part. You beat the bush around then some beehive hits the ground and then all the answers come spewing out angrily.

  23. #23
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    This guy could take a ol' wine barrel, beer keg, box, or surplus rifle crate, arcade pinball machine, and personalize it to customer order. I don't know anything about the commercial FCC approval process but when John helps him figure it out, that will be real cool.

  24. #24
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    question, would a 2.4ghz r/c setup work? thinking dx2 as an example.
    Rex
    L2-competitor 3, AT J350W, 8/27/2016, Bong, 2557'
    my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gB...?feature=watch

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    This guy could take a ol' wine barrel, beer keg, box, or surplus rifle crate, arcade pinball machine, and personalize it to customer order. I don't know anything about the commercial FCC approval process but when John helps him figure it out, that will be real cool.
    You started by pretending you knew what this guy should do. It has taken several postings of you talking to yourself to finally admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

    The FCC regulations and process for commercial testing and certification of a device is documented online. It has nothing to do with an FCC amateur operator's license. The first thing to understand is that a HAM license is issued to operate a transmitter within limited bands for non-commercial use. FCC type-testing, certification, and issuance of an FCC ID, is required for a company to test, market, and sell a commercial device. Depending on the type of device and the band&power it operates within, the owner/operator of the device may or may not need a license. It can be license-free (Wifi, cellphone, garage door opener, for example), or an amateur license (ham band HT, for example), or a commercial operators license (TV/radio station, company's mobile fleet radios, etc).

    Understand also the FCC typically doesn't police the airwaves. Any action from the FCC usually begins with a complaint from the public or a commercial operator or the military. They gather information, and the legal department decides if it's worth a warning, a fine, or a docket to be turned over to a US attorney's office. I've been on both sides of this process. ;-)

    There's a fine line in the regulations when it comes to reselling a transmitting device as part of an integrated system. If the original device is a module intended for multiple applications, you only need to show that it still works within the limitation for that band once it's integrated into your product. But, if it's a transmitting device intended for (and certification tested, type-tested for) a specific application, you can't just integrate it into your product for a new application. The FCC will usually require new type-testing ($5K to $20K, performed by an independent testing company). Many products are in violation, but again the FCC is not typically a policing organization.

    An individual or small company may decide to "wing it". All is well until there is a complaint from interference, or worse, someone is injured using the product. When the lawyers find you were in violation of Federal regulations, they will use it as an example of incompetence. It might not have anything to do with why the incident occurred, but you will lose everything you own trying to prove otherwise.

    If you need more information than that, contact me and we'll discuss by consulting rate.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
    My LinkedIn Profile

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex R View Post
    question, would a 2.4ghz r/c setup work? thinking dx2 as an example.
    Rex
    Hi, I just got thru building a r/c rocket controller last night, I just used the cheapest trigger rc controller I could find on amazon that came with a receiver for about 28 dollars. When I pull the trigger the rocket goes flying. What do u have to do on here to post pics. Iíve been trying. Thanks all for the replies. Iím gonna check into all of it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    You started by pretending you knew what this guy should do. It has taken several postings of you talking to yourself to finally admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

    The FCC regulations and process for commercial testing and certification of a device is documented online. It has nothing to do with an FCC amateur operator's license. The first thing to understand is that a HAM license is issued to operate a transmitter within limited bands for non-commercial use. FCC type-testing, certification, and issuance of an FCC ID, is required for a company to test, market, and sell a commercial device. Depending on the type of device and the band&power it operates within, the owner/operator of the device may or may not need a license. It can be license-free (Wifi, cellphone, garage door opener, for example), or an amateur license (ham band HT, for example), or a commercial operators license (TV/radio station, company's mobile fleet radios, etc).

    Understand also the FCC typically doesn't police the airwaves. Any action from the FCC usually begins with a complaint from the public or a commercial operator or the military. They gather information, and the legal department decides if it's worth a warning, a fine, or a docket to be turned over to a US attorney's office. I've been on both sides of this process. ;-)

    There's a fine line in the regulations when it comes to reselling a transmitting device as part of an integrated system. If the original device is a module intended for multiple applications, you only need to show that it still works within the limitation for that band once it's integrated into your product. But, if it's a transmitting device intended for (and certification tested, type-tested for) a specific application, you can't just integrate it into your product for a new application. The FCC will usually require new type-testing ($5K to $20K, performed by an independent testing company). Many products are in violation, but again the FCC is not typically a policing organization.

    An individual or small company may decide to "wing it". All is well until there is a complaint from interference, or worse, someone is injured using the product. When the lawyers find you were in violation of Federal regulations, they will use it as an example of incompetence. It might not have anything to do with why the incident occurred, but you will lose everything you own trying to prove otherwise.

    If you need more information than that, contact me and we'll discuss by consulting rate.
    Thanks all, I will be looking into it.

  28. #28
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    The other thing with transmitting intentionally is that you not cause interference to other services. If you do the FCC or the relevant authority in whatever country will come after you. What wasn't mentioned is that this can happen even if you are transmitting within the required levels in the required band.

    I have mentioned this because I have been on the receiving end of this, due to a mix of frequencies (combination of four transmitters!) that occasionally hetrodyned and generated digital noise on a voice channel for a trucking company. Our tram and bus tracking system was the culprit and was entirely within spec, but we (everyone) are still not permitted to interfere. Ended up putting another ferrite circulator on the antenna system to get rid of the intermodulation frequencies.
    TRA 13430, Level 3

    "Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex R View Post
    question, would a 2.4ghz r/c setup work? thinking dx2 as an example.
    Rex
    I have a friend who has done that, he's an engineer for a high tech company. We both fly S8 rocket gliders and its so much better to control the launch yourself from your transmitter. He uses a Futaba and I use a Frsky both very good, solid systems. I plan to do similar with one channel to test for continuity, one channel to arm a receiver controlled switch and one to fire but only if the previous channels are good and if the transmitter flight mode is correct.


    Richard
    'Retro' Rocketeer not retro rocket :cool:
    Tellurian not a Dirtling :eyeroll:

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTellurian View Post
    I have a friend who has done that, he's an engineer for a high tech company. We both fly S8 rocket gliders and its so much better to control the launch yourself from your transmitter. He uses a Futaba and I use a Frsky both very good, solid systems. I plan to do similar with one channel to test for continuity, one channel to arm a receiver controlled switch and one to fire but only if the previous channels are good and if the transmitter flight mode is correct.


    Richard
    Now this is quite interesting... I had the opportunity to watch some of the FIA competitors last summer at NARAM. I was awestruck by their skills.

    -Scott Sager
    NAR 91621 L2
    TRA 15982 L2
    Woosh #558
    KC9WQK

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