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  1. #1
    Join Date
    15th June 2011
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    Macon GA
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    How often do you have some amount of damage?

    If you were to estimate, what percentage of your flights result in some degree of damage? I'm not talking about the typical dings and dents, but damage that is significant enough that unless you do some kind of repair, you cannot safely fly it again. This includes not only structural damage, but also boogered up recovery devices.

    As a low/mid/L1 flyer, I think I experience some level of damage approximately 20% of the time. I fly on sod farms so I can just imagine it is far worse for people who fly on dry lake beds!

    What about you? What kind of rockets do you fly, in what kind of field, and approximately what percentage of your flights experience this degree of damage?

    Last edited by LW Bercini; 29th November 2017 at 02:51 PM.
    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    14th July 2015
    Location
    Randolph, NJ
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    Maybe I've been lucky but over the course of about 40 flights (estimated) in the past few years I've had 3 incidents of damage:
    1) Burned a shock cord on my Astron Elliptic II when I over stuffed the tube and it failed to completely eject.
    2) Popped a fin on the same Elliptic II on landing
    3) Broke a fin on the APRO Lander II on landing (somewhat afraid to fly that one again, I must confess).

    I fly mostly on a farm where landings are soft unless you get unlucky and hit the road or one of the few buildings around.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    5th February 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qweebec
    Posts
    3,398
    So far, for me, about 2%...

    I fly LPR, MPR, and L1 (MPR & LPR being the main flights). I typically fly once a month, and do about 4-6 flights per outing. Our field is half corn and half hay (tall -ish grass). When the corn isn't out, it's dirt.. and snow in the winter (or frozen dirt / grass)

    I had a Cato on an MPR AMRAAM at NY power last year (flew 2.5 days, with about 4 flights per day)
    I had my Seaworf 'shred' on an I435 earlier this year.
    I've singed a few chutes, but nothing that would render them "useless". Although I did break / shred the standard chute that came with my Mega Mosquito..
    I think I've broken the odd fin over the past 10 years.. yes, I think I've broken 3 fin off my MPR flights over the past dozen or so years..
    -paul

    NAR# 101258 - L1
    www.CRMRC.org
    I don't know the same things you don't know..

  4. #4
    Join Date
    15th October 2015
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,292
    I've been tracking only failed flights which is just below 10%, so adding flights that were successful but needed repair before reflight, I would guestimate that to be about 20%.
    NAR L1 - Optima 3" upscale/CTI H133 @ NYPower 20, May 28, 2016
    My YouTube channel

  5. #5
    Join Date
    20th January 2009
    Location
    Johnson City, NY
    Posts
    2,004
    Excluding lost rockets (those that were never found), looking at nearly 400 flights, I've probably had to repair before flying again about 20~ 25 rockets (broken shock cord, zipper, cracked fin, etc).
    So a smidge over 5%.
    Rocket Addict
    More...more...I'm still not satisfied (T. Lehrer)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    5th December 2013
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    6,960
    I don't know because I am not a real stat-taker, but I seem to vary from perfect flight to cato/lawn dart, with little in between. If I do everything right, I get no damage. But if something goes wrong, it almost always ends in a destroyed rocket. That's if I don't lose it.

    John S. ---- NAR #96911 ---- TRA #15253 ---- MDRA #067 ---- BARC #028
    L1, 3/15/14: Aerotech Sumo, CTI H133BS
    L2, 6/21/14: Giant Leap Vertical Assault, CTI J240RL
    L3, 3/12/16: MAC Performance Radial Flyer, CTI M1101WH
    Altitude: 13,028', L3 flight; Speed: Mach ???, L3 flight

  7. #7
    Join Date
    15th October 2016
    Location
    Huntsville AL
    Posts
    1,868
    I've had a couple small zippers, but just got my first sever damage last Sunday.

    Main charge fired, shear pin broke, nose stayed on my Argent. I have a crunched baffle/coupler with creased boost tube, cracked nosecone, and some payload tube smush.

    I think I can get it back together with some work.
    "I'm at least 70% confident about whatever I say (90% of the time)"- college me

    NAR 101195
    Level 1: Big SAM, 9/10/16

  8. #8
    Join Date
    13th August 2017
    Location
    SEPA
    Posts
    151
    Not counting unrecoverable or water landings not all that often. 1 out of every dozen or so flights I have to repair something. I fly primarily on farm and long grass fields.
    NAR# 104365

  9. #9
    Join Date
    18th January 2016
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    891
    I've only lost two rockets over the years. One drifted into the trees and was never seen again. Another was a MIRV; the darts were lost in the tall grass.

    Other than that, I've never taken any real damage beyond scratches and paint chips which happen almost every flight.
    Mark
    NAR#: 100890 / TRA#: 16580
    L1 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI I242 2,540'
    L2 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI J330 3,672'
    L3 - Scratch built 8" PAC-3 MSE Patriot - Loki M1969 6,338'

  10. #10
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    11,662
    I'd say close to 10%. Almost every launch results in one or two items that need some repair or touch up. Not all actually would preclude flying the rocket but are more than cosmetic. An example that pops to mind is a small crack in a fin root that, while the fin appears sturdy, should be addressed before it lands hard the next time.
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  11. #11
    Join Date
    15th September 2009
    Location
    Silverton, Oregon
    Posts
    933
    With low power I would guess somewhere around 15-20% of flights.

    With mid and high power it is much lower, closer to 5%. That said, low-and-slow is a good description of most of my flights.


    Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

    Dan Feller
    Silver Crest Rocket Club

  12. #12
    Join Date
    26th January 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    13,148
    I fly mostly MPR and L1, but don't keep stats. My flights are mostly low and slow, obviously. I have to say, I've been fairly lucky over the last 8 or so years as a BAR. I've only had two lawn darts, and a handful of broken fins. But the two lawn darts were pretty spectacular!



    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    20th February 2009
    Location
    Cayuga, Indiana
    Posts
    12,886
    Scuffs - 50%, dings/chips - 25%, repairs required - <10% (but all my flights are high power).

    From the Ether...
    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

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  14. #14
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY
    Posts
    489
    Most of my damage is hangar rash. Iíd say between 2% and 5% of my flights have minor/cosmetic damage. Maybe 1% of flights require repair afterwards.


    Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
    http://chrisudy.blogspot.com
    Flying LPR since 1982
    NAR L1 - Aug 2015 - LOC Caliber ISP on H115DM-8
    NAR L2 - July 2017 - Madcow Frenzy (4") on J270-10

  15. #15
    Join Date
    21st January 2009
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona
    Posts
    1,804
    When I read the subject I was not thinking damage to the rocket. I was thinking outside objects, car windows, roofs, forest fires....

    M

  16. #16
    Join Date
    25th February 2014
    Posts
    562
    i dont keep track of how often, but have realized damage is always caused my me. could have been not attaching fins properly, packing recovery too quickly and not doing it right, improper motor/delay selection......................

  17. #17
    Join Date
    1st July 2010
    Posts
    558
    I don't keep records, but I would guess about 10%.
    TCC - home of LDRS 37

    https://ldrs37.org

  18. #18
    Join Date
    6th September 2009
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by LW Bercini View Post
    If you were to estimate, what percentage of your flights result in some degree of damage? I'm not talking about the typical dings and dents, but damage that is significant enough that unless you do some kind of repair, you cannot safely fly it again. This includes not only structural damage, but also boogered up recovery devices.

    As a low/mid/L1 flyer, I think I experience some level of damage approximately 40% of the time. I fly on sod farms so I can just imagine it is far worse for people who fly on dry lake beds!

    What about you? What kind of rockets do you fly, in what kind of field, and approximately what percentage of your flights experience this degree of damage?
    Dude. 40%? On sod? No other response, including mine, is even close to your figure. Judging by your membership numbers, you have been around the block for a while. What gives?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    13th August 2017
    Location
    SEPA
    Posts
    151
    what do you mean by boogered up recovery device? tangled chute lines? or tears in the chute?
    NAR# 104365

  20. #20
    Join Date
    13th August 2017
    Location
    SEPA
    Posts
    151
    if I don't need to fix it with glue or more severe methods I don't really count it as damage
    NAR# 104365

  21. #21
    Join Date
    15th June 2011
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    Macon GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by solid_fuel View Post
    what do you mean by boogered up recovery device? tangled chute lines? or tears in the chute?
    "significant enough that unless you do some kind of repair, you cannot safely fly it again."
    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  22. #22
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    15th June 2011
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    Macon GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
    Dude. 40%? On sod? No other response, including mine, is even close to your figure.
    Typo. I fixed. That aside, I think much of what goes wrong with mine is directly related to the complexity of my designs. I find the standard 3 or 4 fins and nose cone designs quite boring. My rockets, by nature of their planform complexity, contain more potential failure points.
    Last edited by LW Bercini; 29th November 2017 at 03:07 PM.
    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    5th February 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qweebec
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    3,398
    Quote Originally Posted by LW Bercini View Post
    My rockets, by nature of their planform complexity, contain more potential failure points.
    I'd be curious to see some of these!
    -paul

    NAR# 101258 - L1
    www.CRMRC.org
    I don't know the same things you don't know..

  24. #24
    Join Date
    14th July 2015
    Location
    Randolph, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr wogz View Post
    I'd be curious to see some of these!
    I was curious too so I did a bit of searching on TRF for previously published pictures, figured I might as well copy it down here. Hope I am not being presumptuous by doing so. LW does some lovely work and it deserves to be seen.

    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...n-Build-Thread (best of the bunch IMHO)
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...own-more-to-go
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...-off-the-bench
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...the-new-builds
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...Starshine-quot
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...69-The-Fractal
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...-Basilisk-quot (never saw a finished picture of this one)

  25. #25
    Join Date
    6th January 2009
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    3,645
    Like others have mentioned, it depends on what you call ďdamage.Ē Damaged or mangled parachutes or streamers donít count at all if the rocket is okay. Shoot, core samples donít count if repairs (beyond retying shock cords). But with cracked fins or worse Iíd guess Iím somewhere around 10-20 percent depending on the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
    Blessings,

    John
    NAR#87984
    L1 - Airfest - September 6, 2015

    It can't be my second childhood, I haven't finished my first one yet.

    "If I were giving a young man advice as to how he might succeed in life, I would say to him, Pick out a good father and mother, and begin life in Ohio." - Wilbur Wright, January 10, 1910

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  26. #26
    Join Date
    15th June 2011
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    Macon GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil_w View Post
    I was curious too so I did a bit of searching on TRF for previously published pictures, figured I might as well copy it down here. Hope I am not being presumptuous by doing so. LW does some lovely work and it deserves to be seen.
    Thank you, sir. I'm not a very prolific builder. Also, I don't post pics of my builds much. Back in 2015, I made a honest attempt to post more, but life got in the way.

    I have 3 original designs on the bench right now, and will post pics as I finish them. But since retiring and getting involved with the local theater group, I've been spending more time on making props than on making rockets.
    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    14th July 2015
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    Randolph, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by LW Bercini View Post
    I have 3 original designs on the bench right now, and will post pics as I finish them.
    Cool. Wouldnít mind seeing a pic of the finished AGM Basilisk if you have any.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    15th October 2016
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    Huntsville AL
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    Quote Originally Posted by LW Bercini View Post
    But since retiring and getting involved with the local theater group, I've been spending more time on making props than on making rockets.
    Could you convince them to use more props that happen to be long skinny and airborne?

  29. #29
    Join Date
    15th June 2011
    Location
    Macon GA
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    2,396
    Quote Originally Posted by Nytrunner View Post
    Could you convince them to use more props that happen to be long skinny and airborne?
    Or...new spin on old favorites, e.g., "Beauty and the Beast in SPAAAAAAAAACCCE!"
    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    5th February 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qweebec
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    3,398
    Thanks for digging them up Neil..

    Pretty cool!! I can see why some might get tangled up & such..

    -paul

    NAR# 101258 - L1
    www.CRMRC.org
    I don't know the same things you don't know..

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