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  1. #31
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
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    2,007
    5 axis cnc? for what? What's with all the overkill on everything? There have been suggestions on a shop with the capability needed to cut out simple plywood fins.... Doesn't require a NASA contractor.

    To get this back on topic....


    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  2. #32
    Join Date
    27th March 2013
    Location
    Has Changed
    Posts
    9,282
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    To get this back on topic....

    NICE!!!

    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  3. #33
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Oviedo, FL
    Posts
    5,196
    One of my shorter-term plans is to build a 4 or 5.5 inch diameter upscale of The Shadow. I may build another 1:1 clone first. The Shadow/Optima is just one of my favorite designs.

    Chris (hcmbanjo) pointed out how the angles of the forward fins reflect angles in the rear fins. I thought that might have a practical purpose allowing the fins to be cut from a smaller sheet of wood. But, looking at the fin sheets actually included with the kits, you can see that isn't the case. Mike Dorfler had such a great talent for choosing the right fin shapes to create amazing looking rockets that have what we think of now as the classic Estes look.

    I am not as much of a fan of the catalog paint schemes and decals for either the Optima or The Shadow. If I wasn't trying to match the catalog photo of The Shadow I might paint it similar to the Omega with its sharp white, blue, black, and silver scheme.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,007
    I always liked the shadow paint. I’ve never seen anyone do the blue paint job from the Optima instructions. I’m going to do it to one of them just because.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  5. #35
    Join Date
    26th January 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    12,881
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    I've got a soft spot for AT 29's. I wound up building a pile of kits for 54mm motors. And they're fun, don't get me wrong... but I've found it easier (and cheaper) to fly a slightly smaller kit on slightly bigger 38's than to go into the 54 realm. I'm sure I'll get back into all those kits some day...but right now all my plans are for 38mm motors, and doing my L3 and a couple EX 76's. My L1 Optima is a 29....so I'll always be flying those in there somewhere too.
    I fly mostly 29's these days due to cost, and because one of the clubs I fly with is limited to G's and 1500'. I have several rockets that can fly G's and H's, which I fly with the other club. For bigger builds, I'll go with 38's. I've only got one rocket currently with a 54mm motor tube, and those 54mm reloads are pricey! I've flown it on a couple of 54mm J's, but the last flight was a 38mm I600R. What a great flight!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    26th January 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    12,881
    Quote Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
    One of my shorter-term plans is to build a 4 or 5.5 inch diameter upscale of The Shadow. I may build another 1:1 clone first. The Shadow/Optima is just one of my favorite designs.

    Chris (hcmbanjo) pointed out how the angles of the forward fins reflect angles in the rear fins. I thought that might have a practical purpose allowing the fins to be cut from a smaller sheet of wood. But, looking at the fin sheets actually included with the kits, you can see that isn't the case. Mike Dorfler had such a great talent for choosing the right fin shapes to create amazing looking rockets that have what we think of now as the classic Estes look.

    I am not as much of a fan of the catalog paint schemes and decals for either the Optima or The Shadow. If I wasn't trying to match the catalog photo of The Shadow I might paint it similar to the Omega with its sharp white, blue, black, and silver scheme.
    I love the paint scheme and decals of the Shadow, more so than the Optima. That's why I chose the Shadow for my 5.5" Level 2.
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,007
    I love everything about the I600R
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  8. #38
    Join Date
    10th October 2017
    Posts
    22
    Thank you Samb for the shout out regarding Nat Kinsey/Upscale CNC as a source for custom fins and other CNC work. Once I figure out the exact fin configuration needed I will contact Nat.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    26th January 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    12,881
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    I love everything about the I600R
    The thrust and flame surprised me. Awesome motor!
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,007
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManRocket View Post
    Thank you Samb for the shout out regarding Nat Kinsey/Upscale CNC as a source for custom fins and other CNC work. Once I figure out the exact fin configuration needed I will contact Nat.
    when I get home I’ll clean up my sim file and post it here.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  11. #41
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,615
    I picked up one of the new Estes Optima kits to build in June 1990 but I decided it just couldn't be stock. I decided it should LOOK like a stock Optima kit but really be something different.

    I decided to construct it so it could handle a small 'H' motor, if I wanted to go with that powerful a motor. Otherwise, I would fly it on 29mm 'F' & 'G' motors.

    By the time I finished the Optima, the only original kit parts were the nose cone, decals and the forward balsa strakes/fins. All other components had been replace with AeroTech kit parts and the fins cut out of plywood and mounted 'through-the-wall' to the motor mount Fin-Lok rings. I spent quite a bit of time on the finishing as I wanted it to look like a display model.

    My Optima has only flown on AeroTech F25-6W White Lightning motors. Gotta love that flame and smoke.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you want to read a little history about how my Optima lead to the creation of the original Estes Pro Series kits, click the link below to a thread on YORF I started six years ago:

    http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=8736

    Last edited by Initiator001; 16th November 2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Add link
    Bob

  12. #42
    Join Date
    10th October 2017
    Posts
    22
    David, did you have a chance to clean up your sim file for the Optima/Shadow?

  13. #43
    Join Date
    23rd July 2011
    Location
    Butte, MT
    Posts
    2,016
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_ASC View Post
    If they do hold a patent active still, They can't sue if the dimensions and manufacturing methods are changed, because a patent applies to a specific manufactured item and not a blanket coverage of an idea. (Snip)
    Thatís simply untrue.



    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  14. #44
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,007
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManRocket View Post
    David, did you have a chance to clean up your sim file for the Optima/Shadow?
    Yup, lets see if this works...

    -Optima.rkt
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  15. #45
    Join Date
    10th October 2017
    Posts
    22
    Thank you David! I was able to print out the fin templates just fine. Now I need to source some plywood and practice cutting out fins. I see the main fins have a TTW tab but not the front set. Did you just surface mount those?

  16. #46
    Join Date
    26th January 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    12,881
    This is how I mounted the forward fins on my Bullpup.

    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...77#post1659477
    NAR 91107, Level 2

    I really, really hate bugs.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,007
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManRocket View Post
    Thank you David! I was able to print out the fin templates just fine. Now I need to source some plywood and practice cutting out fins. I see the main fins have a TTW tab but not the front set. Did you just surface mount those?
    Yea, I just glued to front fins to the surface. I did go TTW on them for my CF Optima.



    The corners of the fins are square. makes cutting easier




    After cutting, stack them up and sand them even.



    cut my last 2 sets with a hand saw-




    The fins go right to the back of the BT, so you'll have to notch the tabs for the rear centering ring.


    Last edited by DavidMcCann; 20th November 2017 at 03:53 AM.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

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