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  1. #61
    Join Date
    26th November 2009
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    I think the process was extremely odious and pricey that Scott had to pass. Perhaps he'll comment on it. Kurt


  2. #62
    Join Date
    18th January 2016
    Location
    St. Louis
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    894
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Thanks for the feedback on the liner ends. Everything you do making reloads takes time and I am always looking for ways to cut down on time without cutting down on quality. As many of you know, Loki liners have always come with the ends sanded. So after cutting up a bunch of 38mm liners last week, I wanted to ask the question out of curiosity to see how many noticed or cared.

    I also wanted to take a moment to let everyone know that the Loki Web store has been reopened today. Our dealers are very well stocked so if you see that I am out of something, chances are the they have them all. ;-)
    Woo!

    Mark
    NAR#: 100890 / TRA#: 16580
    L1 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI I242 2,540'
    L2 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI J330 3,672'
    L3 - Scratch built 8" PAC-3 MSE Patriot - Loki M1969 6,338'

  3. #63
    Join Date
    20th August 2011
    Location
    Lake Ozark, MO
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    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by cerving View Post
    Any chance of getting Loki motors through the CSFM for us Cali folks?
    Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

    You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

    It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
    -Henry David Thoreau

  4. #64
    Join Date
    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Weíve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. Itís a bit of a sensitive situation and we donít want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them itís unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  5. #65
    Join Date
    26th November 2009
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    4,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

    You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

    It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.


    That's what I thought. I can appreciate Steve's comment that it's a touchy thing though. Kurt

  6. #66
    Join Date
    18th October 2016
    Posts
    497
    California is all about generating more money for California.
    TRA L2. I-class record: "Vanish 29" with an I224, 14,596ft, Mach 1.92. Video here.

  7. #67
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    20th August 2011
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    Lake Ozark, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    We’ve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. It’s a bit of a sensitive situation and we don’t want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them it’s unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.
    What if the TRA proposed a new license for a "Single Event Pyro Fee" (not a formerly made up exemption) for non-approved commercial motors/reloads to be paid to the state fire marshals office? This would be a benefit for the Fire marshals office, the TRA, and its members, as well as motor dealers and manufactures like myself who would benefit from an increase in sales at a CA LDRS. It may even open the door to pathways for manufacturers like me to sell products in the state.

    Thoughts?
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
    -Henry David Thoreau

  8. #68
    Join Date
    23rd July 2011
    Location
    Butte, MT
    Posts
    2,273
    We will continue trying to find a way to improve things for our members in California. I would be glad to discuss this either on the Tripoli forum or privately with Tripoli members. We always have a Members Meeting at LDRS. Letís discuss it there. Itís an important topic and itís one of the reasons we really want to demonstrate that we walk our talk when it comes to following NFPA.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  9. #69
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    We will continue trying to find a way to improve things for our members in California. I would be glad to discuss this either on the Tripoli forum or privately with Tripoli members. We always have a Members Meeting at LDRS. Let’s discuss it there. It’s an important topic and it’s one of the reasons we really want to demonstrate that we walk our talk when it comes to following NFPA.


    Steve Shannon
    ive got a cool idea. Tell us here what you’re doing to get past this crap. There’s no reason to hide it. What’s the plan to get past this bs?

    stop hiding and just talk to us.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  10. #70
    Join Date
    3rd February 2012
    Location
    So Cal (ROC, TRASD, SCRA)
    Posts
    2,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

    You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

    It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.
    Thanks. I fly a few times with TRALV every year, but the motor vendors that go there don't carry Loki. I don't think I could get a load shipped into Cali, but maybe I could get it sent to one of my TRALV buddies...

    Do you know if a Loki motor could be flown out a FAR, since that's technically amateur rocketry and not hobby rocketry?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    23rd July 2011
    Location
    Butte, MT
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    ive got a cool idea. Tell us here what youíre doing to get past this crap. Thereís no reason to hide it. Whatís the plan to get past this bs?

    stop hiding and just talk to us.
    No. Not in a public forum.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  12. #72
    Join Date
    30th January 2016
    Location
    US > OK > NE
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    3,483
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    ive got a cool idea. Tell us here what youíre doing to get past this crap. Thereís no reason to hide it. Whatís the plan to get past this bs?

    stop hiding and just talk to us.
    I assert that if anyone has a good suggestion for how to get California to see reason, they should immediately propose same to the board.

  13. #73
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    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    I assert that if anyone has a good suggestion for how to get California to see reason, they should immediately propose same to the board.
    We would sincerely love to receive such ideas. If you want to address them to me Iíll make sure they go to the person who has been taking point on this.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  14. #74
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    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    What if the TRA proposed a new license for a "Single Event Pyro Fee" (not a formerly made up exemption) for non-approved commercial motors/reloads to be paid to the state fire marshals office? This would be a benefit for the Fire marshals office, the TRA, and its members, as well as motor dealers and manufactures like myself who would benefit from an increase in sales at a CA LDRS. It may even open the door to pathways for manufacturers like me to sell products in the state.

    Thoughts?
    Iím sorry Scott, I didnít see this post until just now. You may have posted it while I was posting the next one in this thread. Iíll run this past Burl to see what he thinks. It sounds like a good idea to me.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  15. #75
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    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

    You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

    It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.
    How often does each motor require recertification?


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  16. #76
    Join Date
    20th August 2011
    Location
    Lake Ozark, MO
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    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    How often does each motor require recertification?


    Steve Shannon
    From what I remember of my conversation with them, once an article is certified it stays certified.

    It would be even better if they certified propellant grain sizes/shapes, something similar to what the DOT does. For the most part, most reloads are simply larger multiples of the same article. In essence, people purchase multiples of the same items when they buy propellant reloads. I can twist together the black powder fuse wicks of 5 bottle rockets and put them all in the same pop bottle and light them all at once. How I use them (one at a time or all at once) should not change the nature of the article. If reload articles are used illegally there is nothing to stop someone from using any number of grains how ever they choose.

    I think OSFM certification by grain shape/size would be beneficial to every motor manufacture, not just myself.
    Back to work now.
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
    -Henry David Thoreau

  17. #77
    Join Date
    18th January 2016
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    894
    Question. If you include the phenolic washer with the motors to better protect the nozzles, do you need to recertify?
    Mark
    NAR#: 100890 / TRA#: 16580
    L1 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI I242 2,540'
    L2 - Binder Design Excel Plus 38 - CTI J330 3,672'
    L3 - Scratch built 8" PAC-3 MSE Patriot - Loki M1969 6,338'

  18. #78
    Join Date
    11th January 2013
    Location
    Old Bridge,,,,,,,,,,,,, New Jersey
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrouchoDuke View Post
    Vegas. Thatís good to hear - this little rocket can only eat one at a time, so no kitty space suits yet!
    Groucho,, I'm not shipping haz mat just yet..
    Shoot Chris's Rocketry Supplies an email..
    He'll ship you those loads...

    Teddy




    www.Onebadhawk.com

    Ted Chernok
    Old Bridge New Jersey
    METRA- BoD- New York..
    URRG- Way upstate New York..
    MDRA- Maryland..
    QCRS- Illinois- Best politicians money can buy ( Tim L. )..
    Kloudbusters- Kansas..
    NAR # 87063
    Tripoli # 14443
    Level 3

  19. #79
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    20th August 2011
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    Lake Ozark, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onebadhawk View Post
    Groucho,, I'm not shipping haz mat just yet..
    Shoot Chris's Rocketry Supplies an email..
    He'll ship you those loads...

    Teddy
    Thank you Teddy. That's what I like to see my dealers do. Help each other out any chance you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark
    Question. If you include the phenolic washer with the motors to better protect the nozzles, do you need to recertify?
    That is what's called a Manufacturer Approved Modification. It is to keep slag off the outer face of the nozzle and help insulate it from the heat of the Ti slag after motor burnout. It helps to keep down on the chance of a cracked nozzle.
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
    -Henry David Thoreau

  20. #80
    Join Date
    18th October 2016
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    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Thank you Teddy. That's what I like to see my dealers do. Help each other out any chance you get.
    Thanks Teddy. I'll touch base with Chris.
    TRA L2. I-class record: "Vanish 29" with an I224, 14,596ft, Mach 1.92. Video here.

  21. #81
    Join Date
    18th March 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
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    3,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    Weíve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. Itís a bit of a sensitive situation and we donít want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them itís unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.
    Steve, I will say this- follow the money. California makes money off of this- until they do not I doubt it will change.


    Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
    Editor of http://www.thrustcurve.org/
    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  22. #82
    Join Date
    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    From what I remember of my conversation with them, once an article is certified it stays certified.

    It would be even better if they certified propellant grain sizes/shapes, something similar to what the DOT does. For the most part, most reloads are simply larger multiples of the same article. In essence, people purchase multiples of the same items when they buy propellant reloads. I can twist together the black powder fuse wicks of 5 bottle rockets and put them all in the same pop bottle and light them all at once. How I use them (one at a time or all at once) should not change the nature of the article. If reload articles are used illegally there is nothing to stop someone from using any number of grains how ever they choose.

    I think OSFM certification by grain shape/size would be beneficial to every motor manufacture, not just myself.
    Back to work now.
    What you say makes sense, and it sounds like you just described a new way of selling your product, as individual grains for the Loki Modular Motor System. If thatís the way you sell them do they have to follow? Has anyone ever tried selling grains separately. I cannot recall anything in NFPA 1125 that would specifically prohibit that. Interesting...


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  23. #83
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    30th January 2016
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    US > OK > NE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    What you say makes sense, and it sounds like you just described a new way of selling your product, as individual grains for the Loki Modular Motor System. If thatís the way you sell them do they have to follow? Has anyone ever tried selling grains separately. I cannot recall anything in NFPA 1125 that would specifically prohibit that. Interesting...


    Steve Shannon
    Didn't AT do this for a while?

  24. #84
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    23rd July 2011
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    Butte, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    Didn't AT do this for a while?
    I donít know. They may have sold individual grains, but as far as I know it wasnít as part of a modular system where customers buy a specific number of grains and assemble them according to instructions to have a certified J350, for example. At least not that I recall. I could easily be wrong about almost anything.


    Steve Shannon
    Steve Shannon
    L3CC, TAP, Director, Tripoli Rocketry Association

  25. #85
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    30th January 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    I donít know. They may have sold individual grains, but as far as I know it wasnít as part of a modular system where customers buy a specific number of grains and assemble them according to instructions to have a certified J350, for example. At least not that I recall. I could easily be wrong about almost anything.


    Steve Shannon
    I just know I have a case of individually packaged white grains. It's the cert part of the equation that's interesting to me, building blocks.

  26. #86
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    24th July 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
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    157
    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    I just know I have a case of individually packaged white grains. It's the cert part of the equation that's interesting to me, building blocks.
    RCS sells individual grains, though that's all EX rocketry as far as I can tell.
    Level 1 - 4in cardboard Madcow Super Payloader DX3 - CTI 125 classic
    Level 2 - 4in cardboard Madcow Super Payloader DX3 modified for dual deploy - Aerotech J270 DMS
    Level 3 - 5.5in Fiberglass Madcow Super Payloader DX3 - Aerotech M1600 Red

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallahan11 View Post
    RCS sells individual grains, though that's all EX rocketry as far as I can tell.
    These are individually cut, cored, & wrapped; not an uncored stick.

  28. #88
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    19th January 2009
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    Portland, OR
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    Hmm... if somebody had their Hazmat shipping license, could they make a [small] business out of selling sticks of raw propellant?
    Skip all the certification hoops?
    Just wondering out loud.......
    Fred Azinger

  29. #89
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    20th August 2011
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    Lake Ozark, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredA View Post
    Hmm... if somebody had their Hazmat shipping license, could they make a [small] business out of selling sticks of raw propellant?
    Skip all the certification hoops?
    Just wondering out loud.......
    Nope. Not that easy Fred. How would you mark the product/box on your self delivered shipments? Papers please!!!
    I could only wish it were that easy. Heck even if the DOT didn't give a hoot I'm sure the CPSP would make a fine example out of you. ;-)
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
    -Henry David Thoreau

  30. #90
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    5th April 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Research View Post
    Nope. Not that easy Fred. How would you mark the product/box on your self delivered shipments? Papers please!!!
    I could only wish it were that easy. Heck even if the DOT didn't give a hoot I'm sure the CPSP would make a fine example out of you. ;-)
    Model aircraft parts ?

    Seth Cooper
    L3
    NAR 75427
    TRA 15793

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