Loki Research- Alive and kicking!

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Thanks for the feedback on the liner ends. Everything you do making reloads takes time and I am always looking for ways to cut down on time without cutting down on quality. As many of you know, Loki liners have always come with the ends sanded. So after cutting up a bunch of 38mm liners last week, I wanted to ask the question out of curiosity to see how many noticed or cared.

I also wanted to take a moment to let everyone know that the Loki Web store has been reopened today. Our dealers are very well stocked so if you see that I am out of something, chances are the they have them all. ;-)

Woo!
 
Any chance of getting Loki motors through the CSFM for us Cali folks?

Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.
 
We’ve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. It’s a bit of a sensitive situation and we don’t want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them it’s unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.
 
Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.



That's what I thought. I can appreciate Steve's comment that it's a touchy thing though. Kurt
 
We’ve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. It’s a bit of a sensitive situation and we don’t want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them it’s unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.

What if the TRA proposed a new license for a "Single Event Pyro Fee" (not a formerly made up exemption) for non-approved commercial motors/reloads to be paid to the state fire marshals office? This would be a benefit for the Fire marshals office, the TRA, and its members, as well as motor dealers and manufactures like myself who would benefit from an increase in sales at a CA LDRS. It may even open the door to pathways for manufacturers like me to sell products in the state.

Thoughts?
 
We will continue trying to find a way to improve things for our members in California. I would be glad to discuss this either on the Tripoli forum or privately with Tripoli members. We always have a Members Meeting at LDRS. Let’s discuss it there. It’s an important topic and it’s one of the reasons we really want to demonstrate that we walk our talk when it comes to following NFPA.


Steve Shannon
 
We will continue trying to find a way to improve things for our members in California. I would be glad to discuss this either on the Tripoli forum or privately with Tripoli members. We always have a Members Meeting at LDRS. Let’s discuss it there. It’s an important topic and it’s one of the reasons we really want to demonstrate that we walk our talk when it comes to following NFPA.


Steve Shannon

ive got a cool idea. Tell us here what you’re doing to get past this crap. There’s no reason to hide it. What’s the plan to get past this bs?

stop hiding and just talk to us.
 
Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.

Thanks. I fly a few times with TRALV every year, but the motor vendors that go there don't carry Loki. I don't think I could get a load shipped into Cali, but maybe I could get it sent to one of my TRALV buddies...

Do you know if a Loki motor could be flown out a FAR, since that's technically amateur rocketry and not hobby rocketry?
 
ive got a cool idea. Tell us here what you’re doing to get past this crap. There’s no reason to hide it. What’s the plan to get past this bs?

stop hiding and just talk to us.
I assert that if anyone has a good suggestion for how to get California to see reason, they should immediately propose same to the board.
 
I assert that if anyone has a good suggestion for how to get California to see reason, they should immediately propose same to the board.

We would sincerely love to receive such ideas. If you want to address them to me I’ll make sure they go to the person who has been taking point on this.


Steve Shannon
 
What if the TRA proposed a new license for a "Single Event Pyro Fee" (not a formerly made up exemption) for non-approved commercial motors/reloads to be paid to the state fire marshals office? This would be a benefit for the Fire marshals office, the TRA, and its members, as well as motor dealers and manufactures like myself who would benefit from an increase in sales at a CA LDRS. It may even open the door to pathways for manufacturers like me to sell products in the state.

Thoughts?

I’m sorry Scott, I didn’t see this post until just now. You may have posted it while I was posting the next one in this thread. I’ll run this past Burl to see what he thinks. It sounds like a good idea to me.


Steve Shannon
 
Nope. Sorry, but you'd be better off having local clubs petition your congressmen/woman and the TRA to change the state fire code fees and laws in CA.

You might also ask the TRA board what steps they have taken with the CA OSFM over the years to enable manufacturers like Loki Research to be able to take part in LDRS when they decide to hold it in California.

It costs $1,500 for the license (per year I believe) plus 3 reloads and $50 per motor/article for each reload to receive OSFM certification. That's a bit steep for a small business not receiving DOD/government contracts. Thank you for asking though.

How often does each motor require recertification?


Steve Shannon
 
How often does each motor require recertification?


Steve Shannon

From what I remember of my conversation with them, once an article is certified it stays certified.

It would be even better if they certified propellant grain sizes/shapes, something similar to what the DOT does. For the most part, most reloads are simply larger multiples of the same article. In essence, people purchase multiples of the same items when they buy propellant reloads. I can twist together the black powder fuse wicks of 5 bottle rockets and put them all in the same pop bottle and light them all at once. How I use them (one at a time or all at once) should not change the nature of the article. If reload articles are used illegally there is nothing to stop someone from using any number of grains how ever they choose.

I think OSFM certification by grain shape/size would be beneficial to every motor manufacture, not just myself.
Back to work now.
 
Vegas. That’s good to hear - this little rocket can only eat one at a time, so no kitty space suits yet!

Groucho,, I'm not shipping haz mat just yet..
Shoot Chris's Rocketry Supplies an email..
He'll ship you those loads...

Teddy
 
Groucho,, I'm not shipping haz mat just yet..
Shoot Chris's Rocketry Supplies an email..
He'll ship you those loads...

Teddy

Thank you Teddy. That's what I like to see my dealers do. Help each other out any chance you get.

Mark said:
Question. If you include the phenolic washer with the motors to better protect the nozzles, do you need to recertify?
That is what's called a Manufacturer Approved Modification. It is to keep slag off the outer face of the nozzle and help insulate it from the heat of the Ti slag after motor burnout. It helps to keep down on the chance of a cracked nozzle.
 
We’ve (TRA BoD) been looking at this. It’s a bit of a sensitive situation and we don’t want to make it worse. Ideally OSFM would simply recognize NFPA, but unless there is something that benefits them it’s unlikely they will discard their existing regulations.

Steve, I will say this- follow the money. California makes money off of this- until they do not I doubt it will change.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
From what I remember of my conversation with them, once an article is certified it stays certified.

It would be even better if they certified propellant grain sizes/shapes, something similar to what the DOT does. For the most part, most reloads are simply larger multiples of the same article. In essence, people purchase multiples of the same items when they buy propellant reloads. I can twist together the black powder fuse wicks of 5 bottle rockets and put them all in the same pop bottle and light them all at once. How I use them (one at a time or all at once) should not change the nature of the article. If reload articles are used illegally there is nothing to stop someone from using any number of grains how ever they choose.

I think OSFM certification by grain shape/size would be beneficial to every motor manufacture, not just myself.
Back to work now.

What you say makes sense, and it sounds like you just described a new way of selling your product, as individual grains for the Loki Modular Motor System. If that’s the way you sell them do they have to follow? Has anyone ever tried selling grains separately. I cannot recall anything in NFPA 1125 that would specifically prohibit that. Interesting...


Steve Shannon
 
What you say makes sense, and it sounds like you just described a new way of selling your product, as individual grains for the Loki Modular Motor System. If that’s the way you sell them do they have to follow? Has anyone ever tried selling grains separately. I cannot recall anything in NFPA 1125 that would specifically prohibit that. Interesting...


Steve Shannon
Didn't AT do this for a while?
 
Didn't AT do this for a while?

I don’t know. They may have sold individual grains, but as far as I know it wasn’t as part of a modular system where customers buy a specific number of grains and assemble them according to instructions to have a certified J350, for example. At least not that I recall. I could easily be wrong about almost anything. [emoji52]


Steve Shannon
 
I don’t know. They may have sold individual grains, but as far as I know it wasn’t as part of a modular system where customers buy a specific number of grains and assemble them according to instructions to have a certified J350, for example. At least not that I recall. I could easily be wrong about almost anything. [emoji52]


Steve Shannon
I just know I have a case of individually packaged white grains. It's the cert part of the equation that's interesting to me, building blocks.
 
Hmm... if somebody had their Hazmat shipping license, could they make a [small] business out of selling sticks of raw propellant?
Skip all the certification hoops?
Just wondering out loud.......
 
Hmm... if somebody had their Hazmat shipping license, could they make a [small] business out of selling sticks of raw propellant?
Skip all the certification hoops?
Just wondering out loud.......

Nope. Not that easy Fred. How would you mark the product/box on your self delivered shipments? Papers please!!!
I could only wish it were that easy. Heck even if the DOT didn't give a hoot I'm sure the CPSP would make a fine example out of you. ;-)
 
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