Some neighbors say, "No Tanks!"

Steven said:

If everyone in the area does the same thing, we all win. And those on the outside can go about their own business as they please which they will.

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OK, comrade, you clearly win.

Can we go back to talking about rockets and tanks now?

afadeev said:

OK, comrade, you clearly win.

Can we go back to talking about rockets and tanks now?

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Who's stopping you?

Steven said:

View attachment 329448 Another example of no HOA. I don't want neighbors like this and I don't.

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Yeah...

There were examples like this all over the area following Katrina
and Sandy
and Harvey
and Irma
and...
well, you get the picture.

But we'll ignore the other photos.

boatgeek said:

They can't tow it, but they can start levying fines if he's really breaking the HOA. In some states, the HOA can put a lien on the house for unpaid fines.

I doubt it's an anti-military person. It's much more likely a BMW driver* who's sick and tired of the gawkers holding him up on his way to kick his St. Bernard.

* I stereotype, but tell me it ain't true.

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Too funny!

I have a friend who lives in a fairly new community just outside of town. Most of them got together and decided to form a HOA. Drives them crazy that he's the last one and won't sign. Drives them crazier that he doesn't HAVE to sign. He has one of the nicest houses in the community, and the most well-kept, but refuses to sign. Tastefully won the city Christmas display contest last year.

Houses are fairly spread out, perhaps 1/4 mile between them in rolling hills.

Several of the neighbors are mad because they didn't want to sign, but felt extorted to do so... now they're stuck and he's not. Pays to read the print and stand your ground.

For every HOA that gets in the news for trying to stop an American flag from being flown and the homeowner thinks they should be allowed - even after they signed a covenant that specifically forbids any flags from being flown...

... there's 1,000 instances of a homeowner trying to put a window AC unit on the front of his house, or painting his house purple, and thinks that they should be allowed to do whatever the heck they want on their property - even after they signed a covenant that specifically forbids any window AC units or non-approved colors.

An HOA serves a purpose, and anyone that moves into one and agrees on the terms has NO room to complain about the terms years later when they decide that the rules should suddenly not apply to them.

Mushtang said:

An HOA serves a purpose, and anyone that moves into one and agrees on the terms has NO room to complain about the terms years later when they decide that the rules should suddenly not apply to them.

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Seems that this is interpreted as gibberish to some people. It seems like such a simple concept.

For the golfers, imagine joining a country club. They tell you when you join that you will not be allowed on the course in shorts. At that point, you can sign the agreement, or say, "No, thanks. I'll play at the municipal course down the road." There is no coercion. Is it fascism when your rocket club tells you that they have a 9000' waiver, and you are not allowed to exceed it? I just don't get it....

I apologize for my overly-combative comments earlier in this thread. I've been under a lot of stress at work and arguing about something unrelated and trivial was somehow cathartic.

That said I still think HOAs are the devil. Conspiring with neighbors to voluntarily limit your Constitutionally-guaranteed freedom just seems screwy to me. It may seem acceptable if HOAs are a minority of neighborhoods, but if they spread one may find himself faced with no choice but to accept his place in a mini-Wehrmacht.

The fact is HOA's can over ride the Constitution because it is still voluntary. I also believe living in undesirable neighborhoods are the devil yet I'm not being forced to live in them so let them have it. Not my problem any more. In the mean time, my house sky rockets in value and theirs barely scratches the surface. That alone gives a person extra security for their future should they need cash. The more, the better. Many of these places also give you security in the form of a gated community or guard. They typically are located in the safer parts of a town or state. Crime is generally lower. As long as affordable housing is prevalent, you're not going to need to worry about HOA's spreading like wildfire.

This is one of the more entertaining threads that have graced the Watering Hole lately...

Anyhow, curiosity led me to search around a bit to see how much HOA organizations increase property values (~5% seems to be the average) when I ran into this article.

It has a great (rocketry-related!) comic attached:

https://gogladly.com/blog/do-hoas-really-increase-property-values/




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Society is filled with laws, rules, expectations and obligations. Some written and some unwritten. If one goes to a place of worship, you are expected to dress up for the occasion. Not my cup of tea exactly, but I'm not going to dictate what people do WITHIN the confines of this particular perimeter either. It's simply another one of those things that one does NOT have to enter into should they choose not to. So no complaint from me. It's not a written rule but an unspoken one and people happily follow regardless.

I'm sure there are many other instances where people can CHOOSE to enter into an arena filled with it's own rules and laws. The NAR is one such entity. If you don't like their rules, you know what your options are. The AMA for model airplanes is yet another one. Same options apply. And within these niches there will always be those who don't want to abide by their rules. If not resolved, consequences are usually brought down by the governing body itself and those assigned to enforce those rules in order to maintain the integrity of the body as a whole.

However I understand HOA's are not the the end all to end all. There were several others that did not meet my personal criteria for various reasons I don't need to go into here. Believe it or not some of them I thought were 'over doing' things a bit so I was unconditionally free to opt out. I like that option best of all.

The problem is when HOAs that start small get over run by the power-hungry types. What you agreed to join when you moved into an HOA neighborhood has very little bearing on how it might end up.

It becomes even more so without one.

Flyfalcons said:

The problem is when HOAs that start small get over run by the power-hungry types. What you agreed to join when you moved into an HOA neighborhood has very little bearing on how it might end up.

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An HOA board can't just make changes to the agreement whenever they want to, in order to satisfy some thirst for power - unless the covenant is written so poorly that it allows them to in which case it is weak and you should have read it before signing it and moving in.

If changes to a strong covenant are desired by the board they usually have a vote of the homeowners and a majority has to agree before it can be changed. This keeps changes from taking place that aren't really in the best interest of the homeowners long term.

HOAs are so easy to avoid it surprises me that anyone is in a position to complain about them.

Hmmm...for all the talk of "having a tank in the front yard," this guy's tank is parked in the street, and he has orange cones up around it. I have no idea if that's a private road or not, but it sure looks like it blocks one lane of traffic. As much as I'd enjoy having a Sherman Tank around here, I suppose I could see why someone could be irked by it.

gna said:

I have no idea if that's a private road or not, but it sure looks like it blocks one lane of traffic. As much as I'd enjoy having a Sherman Tank around here, I suppose I could see why someone could be irked by it.

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Can I start an HOA that mandates tanks on every street? That would stop the neighbor's kid from driving his jacked up Audi at Mach 2 through our street. Bonus points if the tank isn't decommissioned and I can take potshots at the kid on occasion.

djs said:

Can I start an HOA that mandates tanks on every street? That would stop the neighbor's kid from driving his jacked up Audi at Mach 2 through our street. Bonus points if the tank isn't decommissioned and I can take potshots at the kid on occasion.

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Have fun with that. The neighbors are sure to love a vigilante as well as the law. Next thing you know, everyone will be trying to outdo the Jones in no time. Nothing like unbridled paranoia to set a wacko neighborhood into a frothing at the mouth frenzy trying to get the bigger gun to play cowboys and Indians while I Marlin observe from above.

Steven said:

observe from above.

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Wait...I can get a helicopter?!? This gets even better!

djs said:

Wait...I can get a helicopter?!? This gets even better!

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What's playing "Army Man" without a heli?

And the best kind of fence to keep out the riff-raff. The one that does not alter the aesthetics or affect property values - landmines!

H_Rocket said:

And the best kind of fence to keep out the riff-raff. The one that does not alter the aesthetics or affect property values - landmines!

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Until you step on one. Probably won't make it to the second one.

Steven said:

Until you step on one. Probably won't make it to the second one.

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Again- a tank in your yard would solve this problem.

Just heard of a legal case on the news here this morning. In my suburb there is someone suing their neighbours for $2.2million because they have renovated their house and it looks too similar to the the one next door that they did. The lawyers are the ones laughing about this one. Nothing illegal about it. Definitely no HOA or any overlays that apply.

There are some overlays in the suburb for things like trees (in some areas only) and some historical buildings. Largely we are covered by standard council (local government) laws.

djs said:

Again- a tank in your yard would solve this problem.

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Until it starts to sink in it. It isn't going to do any favors on asphalt either, especially during the hot summer.

Steven said:

Until it starts to sink in it. It isn't going to do any favors on asphalt either, especially during the hot summer.

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That's why part of the HOA agreement is to reinforce your yard to withstand the weight of the tank. It makes sense because you'd already need it for the pad for the helicopter to land on.

Except for where the land mines go. The HOA has a variance approved for that.

OverTheTop said:

Just heard of a legal case on the news here this morning. In my suburb there is someone suing their neighbours for $2.2million because they have renovated their house and it looks too similar to the the one next door that they did. The lawyers are the ones laughing about this one. Nothing illegal about it. Definitely no HOA or any overlays that apply.

There are some overlays in the suburb for things like trees (in some areas only) and some historical buildings. Largely we are covered by standard council (local government) laws.

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I agree. No laws broken here. And that's why I'm protected from this sort of thing with an HOA. On the other hand, if there is something hazardous with the construction, they may have a case.

djs said:

That's why part of the HOA agreement is to reinforce your yard to withstand the weight of the tank. It makes sense because you'd already need it for the pad for the helicopter to land on.

Except for where the land mines go. The HOA has a variance approved for that.

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I'm afraid I've run out of room. The square footage is already taken up by the underground sub pens.

You're probably contaminating the groundwater with those sub pens....


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Kind of an "opposite side of the spectrum" anecdote...

I have a friend who lives in a nearby sparsely populated rural township with almost no zoning or rules. Most people keep their places neat and attractive, but the few exceptions don't bother people much beyond laughing about it from time to time. (People around here generally respect property rights and personal freedom.) Maybe ten years ago a couple of families from nearby cities bought houses looking for a "quiet life in the country" or whatever. They wasted no time going to township meetings demanding new ordinances and HOAs, rules and regulations to make the place more "civil" or whatever. They were met with a giant groan and sigh from everyone else in the area who wanted no part of their aggressive new Gestapo rule. Long story short no one got on board with them, they grew frustrated, sold their houses, moved away, and left everyone alone again...the way people out here like it. Glad to keep out the riff-raff...and by "riff-raff" I mean uptight city people who love nothing more than to tell people what to do and how to live. Gotta stay vigilant against those commie HOAs lest they convince your neighbors that you're a dissident and need to be re-educated.