Some neighbors say, "No Tanks!"

muddymoose ...

First of all, chill out dude! This shouldn't be an emotional discussion. It's a question of economics. You seem to think there is something in the Constitution that prevents capitalism. If that's true, please show me. I am unaware of it.

When I bought my house, which has an HOA, I had a choice to buy it or not. By agreeing to buy it, I agreed to the terms of the HOA. I was not compelled to buy it. There are other properties nearby that are out-parcels with no HOA.

I looked at some of them. In most cases, the HOA homes were in better condition than the out-parcel homes. I purchased an HOA home because it suited my needs better than an out-parcel home.

I have the satisfaction of knowing that my neighbors will take as good a care of their homes as I do mine. They will not put up offensive displays. They will not treat their property in such a way as to draw vermin, pests, or increase fire risk. This protection is something that I, as a capitalist, chose to purchase. I was free to go elsewhere.

So far, since owning the home, I have installed a deck, put in a compost bin, replaced my garage door, and gotten new windows. I have removed three trees, one dead and two alive. It was simple matter to obtain the documentation and do all of this according to the agreements.

And yes, as a capitalist, as were the framers of the U. S. Constitution, the value of my home is important to me. It is retirement security. It will be a bequeathment to my children.

The HOA for me has been a win. I can't think of anything I would want to do to my home or property that would be prohibited. Sure, there are things that are prohibited, but I would not want to do them to my home. Again, this is a type of security that I, as a capitalist and free American, have purchased and agreed to of my own accord.

The joy of it all is that YOU DON'T HAVE TO! If you prefer to live in an HOA-free home, by all means please do! An enjoy it! That is also your right as a capitalist. Some people prefer to rent and never buy a home! It's their right, too!

Calling an HOA unconstitutional is like calling a doctor unconstitutional if he tells you what surgery you will need if you want to survive until next year. If you don't want to go to the doctor, don't! But don't find fault with those that do.

I think the overall debate is kinda funny. Nobody is going to buy a $1M+ house and then put a car on cinder blocks out in front. Nor great piles of trash unless they've had a flood or something similar, and that would be short term. I don't really see what value the HOA brings you except for attracting potential future buyers who are excited about having the HOA. Different strokes, I guess.

Let's not pretend those pictures above are representative. My block in Seattle has no HOA. The houses were built from about 1920 to 2010, with most going up in the late 40's and early 50's. Everyone parks on the street because nobody has more than a 1-car garage. There's one house with a few crummy cars in the yard and one house that's abandoned and occasionally used by squatters. Home values are probably in the $400K to $1M+ range, with the low end being the abandoned house that's probably a teardown. If you drive for a mile radius, it's all pretty much the same thing except for the arterial street with apartments. We were lucky to buy in 20 years ago before real estate got stupid in town. A HOA could maybe save us the negative home price effects of those two houses, if there are any. I'd be surprised if there are, since mostly what people care about is neighborhood overall and schools.

So net benefit to me from having a HOA is maybe $10-$20K minus HOA fees for a couple of decades. Freedom to plant berry bushes and fruit trees in the front yard and tear out the lawn? Priceless.

YMMV. I'm not going to tell you how to live. Just don't tell me I'm stupid for living my way.

boatgeek said:

I think the overall debate is kinda funny. Nobody is going to buy a $1M+ house and then put a car on cinder blocks out in front. Nor great piles of trash unless they've had a flood or something similar, and that would be short term. I don't really see what value the HOA brings you except for attracting potential future buyers who are excited about having the HOA. Different strokes, I guess.

Let's not pretend those pictures above are representative. My block in Seattle has no HOA. The houses were built from about 1920 to 2010, with most going up in the late 40's and early 50's. Everyone parks on the street because nobody has more than a 1-car garage. There's one house with a few crummy cars in the yard and one house that's abandoned and occasionally used by squatters. Home values are probably in the $400K to $1M+ range, with the low end being the abandoned house that's probably a teardown. If you drive for a mile radius, it's all pretty much the same thing except for the arterial street with apartments. We were lucky to buy in 20 years ago before real estate got stupid in town. A HOA could maybe save us the negative home price effects of those two houses, if there are any. I'd be surprised if there are, since mostly what people care about is neighborhood overall and schools.

So net benefit to me from having a HOA is maybe $10-$20K minus HOA fees for a couple of decades. Freedom to plant berry bushes and fruit trees in the front yard and tear out the lawn? Priceless.

YMMV. I'm not going to tell you how to live. Just don't tell me I'm stupid for living my way.

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You are assuming people won't act like inconsiderate neighbors who really don't care about their investments. I've heard Hugh Hefner's place needed a DRASTIC renovation in spite of it being worth millions. Also the pride I have extends way beyond just my property. I love going through the other neighborhoods within my community and seeing how well kept and majestic they are. I don't take my investments lightly and insist that they are protected. The freedom to protect my investments is priceless to me.

This can never happen to me. And it is worth the money I pay.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-war-neighbors-ugly-Christmas-display.html

Steven said:

The freedom to protect my investments is priceless to me.

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THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A TANK IN YOUR FRONT YARD!!!!!!

Bat-mite said:

This can never happen to me. And it is worth the money I pay.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-war-neighbors-ugly-Christmas-display.html

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New meaning to "Santa's Throne"

djs said:

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A TANK IN YOUR FRONT YARD!!!!!!

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By far the best thing that has come out of this discussion ^^

Bat-mite said:

This can never happen to me. And it is worth the money I pay.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-war-neighbors-ugly-Christmas-display.html

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Another reason for an HOA.

Bat-mite said:

This can never happen to me. And it is worth the money I pay.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-war-neighbors-ugly-Christmas-display.html

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There aren't very many HOAs in Seattle, but there's a neighborhood near my house with about a 60-page HOA contract. Many houses in that neighborhood have huge holiday light displays. One has a Flying Spaghetti Monster covering the entire house. So even an HOA might not protect you from things you might find religiously offensive.

boatgeek said:

There aren't very many HOAs in Seattle, but there's a neighborhood near my house with about a 60-page HOA contract. Many houses in that neighborhood have huge holiday light displays. One has a Flying Spaghetti Monster covering the entire house. So even an HOA might not protect you from things you might find religiously offensive.

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It always comes down to the particular one you decide is right for you. Some will have a ruling for these things and some won't. Your choice. As always.

Having a tank in your front yard is enough to encourage criminals to go elsewhere are you probably have serious toys inside the house as well

If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing...

I don't live in a HOA, but my towns ordinances are very close to what HOA's have for the same reason. Cars parked on the street or within sight of the public must be tagged and maintained, no trailers longer than 25', grass cannot exceed 9", fences and yards must be maintained. We have what we call town yard nazis that will patrol and report violators, which are then listed on a report in the minutes of the weekly city council meeting. I've shown up on it once because my hedge was 2" past the limit over my fence and into the alley. My friend got reported for the toilet he used as a planter in the front yard, and got to keep it as long as it had plants in it.

However, the tank would be allowed as long as it was registered and tagged.

So what if a HOA wants to rule the same way. Let em. Gotta remember that these are democracies, don't like something, speak up and and try to have a rule added or changed.

A gated community AND an HOA takes care of that. That's all we need is someone to go Dirty Harry on the neighborhood with a tank. No thanks. I lived in a neighborhood where some idiot did exactly that with his semi-automatic on a 'thief' and wound up putting holes in one neighbor's truck door and a second neighbor's garage door. Who becomes the greater threat here?

The problem re: democracy-- definition- three wolves and a rabbit taking a vote on what's for lunch.


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A rabbit with a tank?

MarcoPolo said:

The problem re: democracy-- definition- three wolves and a rabbit taking a vote on what's for lunch.


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Yes, we are not actually a democracy. We are a republic. Rule by law, not rule by majority.

Bat-mite said:

Yes, we are not actually a democracy. We are a republic. Rule by law, not rule by majority.

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Which is exactly why the minority CAN win.

I for one am thankful that the Founders had the wisdom to create a federal republic.


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And that's why we can choose to have an HOA or not.

Steven, your HOA is a quasi-governmental entity at best as opposed to a statutory governing body established by a state or national legislature. Your arguments are becoming circular in nature. Hopefully they will circle the drain and disappear along with interest in this thread. Have a wonderful evening enhanced by liberty and personal freedom.


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Steven said:

That's all we need is someone to go Dirty Harry on the neighborhood with a tank. No thanks.

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I was doubting that the firing mechanism was intact and functional, but I may be mistaken.

Stephen, does your HOA have rules against possessing tanks? I would check if I were you lol

This article sheds some more enlightenment on the issue. I miss Texas
https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...ony-buzbee-kevin-sumlin-firing-buys-wwii-tank

MarcoPolo said:

Steven, your HOA is a quasi-governmental entity at best as opposed to a statutory governing body established by a state or national legislature. Your arguments are becoming circular in nature. Hopefully they will circle the drain and disappear along with interest in this thread. Have a wonderful evening enhanced by liberty and personal freedom.


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I was feeling the same about other's arguments being circular. Glad we agree there. And liberty and personal freedom are there for everyone to enjoy. Still.

Nytrunner said:

I was doubting that the firing mechanism was intact and functional, but I may be mistaken.

Stephen, does your HOA have rules against possessing tanks? I would check if I were you lol

This article sheds some more enlightenment on the issue. I miss Texas
https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...ony-buzbee-kevin-sumlin-firing-buys-wwii-tank

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There are countless communities with HOA's in this country and we don't see this issue as a common factor to be concerned about. Especially where I live. From what I understand, military items that had been armed and decommissioned from use can not have operable arms of any nature once they are sold to civilians.

Nytrunner said:

I was doubting that the firing mechanism was intact and functional, but I may be mistaken.

Stephen, does your HOA have rules against possessing tanks? I would check if I were you lol

This article sheds some more enlightenment on the issue. I miss Texas
https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...ony-buzbee-kevin-sumlin-firing-buys-wwii-tank

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Notice that the hull MG is missing and I expect that the main gun is disabled. The B-17 I am helping to restore has fake MGs as the FAA doesn't allow you to fly with real ones. They look real, but are aluminum and non-functional.

However, I recently learned that flamethrowers are perfectly legal to own.

Zeus-cat said:

So after all this do we know which one of you guys has the bigger one???

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LOL you're pretty funny

Amazing how many folks here equate HOAs with jack-booted thugs. They're just people. If I didn't like my HOA, I'd volunteer for a position on it myself and change the attitude to the extent one person can. What a lot of people often forget is the "volunteer" part of this. These positions rarely pay money. It's an investment in time and effort, and deserves a certain amount of respect.

Marc_G said:

Amazing how many folks here equate HOAs with jack-booted thugs. They're just people. If I didn't like my HOA, I'd volunteer for a position on it myself and change the attitude to the extent one person can. What a lot of people often forget is the "volunteer" part of this. These positions rarely pay money. It's an investment in time and effort, and deserves a certain amount of respect.

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There's yet a new phenomenon on Youtube where people are convinced that Hitler was really an all around nice guy BECAUSE footage shows him petting a German Shepard and going on a stroll with a toddler holding hands. I kid you not. So it's pretty easy to misalign perception. Fact of the matter is they won't gain anything from it and it won't change their lives for the better in any measurable way. Let them have it.

Marc_G said:

Amazing how many folks here equate HOAs with jack-booted thugs. They're just people. If I didn't like my HOA, I'd volunteer for a position on it myself and change the attitude to the extent one person can. What a lot of people often forget is the "volunteer" part of this. These positions rarely pay money. It's an investment in time and effort, and deserves a certain amount of respect.

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As with many things, I'm sure that most HOAs are fine and most of the people on them are really nice people. But the stories that we see in the papers, much like the people with purple houses, are the exceptional cases. A year or two ago there was a meme about an HOA that forebade a veteran from flying an American flag in front of his house and we occasionally hear other tales. It's the bad ones or the ridiculous ones that make the news. I've always lived in places without one but that hasn't insulated me from neighbors that had issues with how often I mowed my grass or how many dandelions were in my yard. Those experiences have left me with a strong desire never to put myself in a position where people like that can levy a fine against me for not behaving the way that they expect me to behave. Not everyone feels the way I do and that's fine too. Like many have said, there are plenty of places to live if you want one, and plenty if you don't. Personally, all rules aside, any place that has an HOA just has neighbors far too close together for my taste. I need a little more elbow room than that. If money were no object my house wouldn't be much bigger than it is now, but the barn, the outbuildings, and the acreage would be.

Zeus-cat said:

So after all this do we know which one of you guys has the bigger one???

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That is a great question. Just silly after a point.

Carry on.




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In our community acreage starts anywhere from 2 to over 11 acres. I have 5 myself. Not exactly stuffed together (which is another reason for my decision) yet it gives me that sense of community as I stroll through the neighborhoods. The level of pride I have extends well beyond my immediate borders and spreads throughout this community. Much as people claiming pride in their country. Do I damn them for it? Hell no. It's of no consequence to me. The amount of money I shelled out is no trifling either. I have every intent to protect that investment and that's what an HOA is all about. It removes that which is unfit concerning the integrity of the homeowners properties and maintains that level. The HOA HAS the right to enforce their rules and I will do what I can to abide by those rules.

If everyone in the area does the same thing, we all win. And those on the outside can go about their own business as they please which they will.