Going for L2, what am I forgetting?

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KenRico said:
Just getting there and being ready is great.

Sorry to hear you didnt get to do the flight this week ..and sorry to jump in prematurely
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Thanks :) And the good news is that - other than a quick walkthrough of my checklist and occasionally running through the L2 test, I should be ready to go for the next launch...
 
If you miss a cert launch date due to inclement weather, you're required to sacrifice a live chicken to the rocket gods before your rescheduled cert flight. Make sure to add that to your checklist.

When are you rescheduled for?
 
Exactimator said:
If you miss a cert launch date due to inclement weather, you're required to sacrifice a live chicken to the rocket gods before your rescheduled cert flight. Make sure to add that to your checklist.

When are you rescheduled for?
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1. I'm in Maine, can I substitute a lobster?
2. Saturday! Got a new LiPo in my Eggfinder Rx (so I don't have to buy a new set of AAs to ease that worry) and I've been reviewing the L2 questions to brush off any rust.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
1. I'm in Maine, can I substitute a lobster?
2. Saturday! Got a new LiPo in my Eggfinder Rx (so I don't have to buy a new set of AAs to ease that worry) and I've been reviewing the L2 questions to brush off any rust.
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Yes. Add butter and a lemon wedge to your list.

Do you remember what (if anything) you removed from your rocket after the launch was scrubbed? Whatever it might be, make sure you get it back in there. Sometimes I take my chutes out and hang them in the garage. Or I undo a quicklink to separate two halves for transport.

Good luck!
 
Exactimator said:
Yes. Add butter and a lemon wedge to your list.

Do you remember what (if anything) you removed from your rocket after the launch was scrubbed? Whatever it might be, make sure you get it back in there. Sometimes I take my chutes out and hang them in the garage. Or I undo a quicklink to separate two halves for transport.

Good luck!
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Thanks!

Yeah, I have disassembled and reassembled a couple of times since then. I wish I could pack the chute the night before, but (long story) my Chute Release won't be available until I get to the event.
 
Just think ... once you are at Level 2, you can build a HUGE rocket and launch it on a 98mm 2-grain. :y:
 
Bat-mite said:
Just think ... once you are at Level 2, you can build a HUGE rocket and launch it on a 98mm 2-grain. :y:
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I've got something with a 58mm mount just itching to be built.... and after that (and some fun fliskits LPR kits that have been in the build pile for too long)

I've been eyeing the MAC Performance Rayzor. Maybe on Black Friday. Maybe I'll ask for it for Christmas.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
I've got something with a 58mm mount just itching to be built.... and after that (and some fun fliskits LPR kits that have been in the build pile for too long)

I've been eyeing the MAC Performance Rayzor. Maybe on Black Friday. Maybe I'll ask for it for Christmas.
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Take your time moving up the ranks enjoy the journey.
 
Good luck. I wish I could be there. (Moving is such a bitch!)


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
And here's the post-mortem/lessons learned:

My plan had been to launch a shakedown flight, take the L2 test, then launch my L2 flight. I had some other plans later in the afternoon that I was going to after my flight.
I got the test done (100%) and got one flight. The flight - just a "shakedown" on an I motor - was arrow-straight right up to 3460 feet, pretty close to the sim. Then the main deployed at apogee and the Chute Release didn't hold it in. Rocket drifted under canopy for about half a mile and landed around 90 feet up in a pine tree. I put in a call to a "tree guy" recommended by Jason at AMW (thanks, Jason!) and packed my stuff up. I was really, really frustrated, to the point of muttering about putting everything up on the Yard Sale page.
I picked up the rocket yesterday from the "tree guy". It's in fine shape - a couple of scuffs on the paint but a landing on a dirt road would have beat it up more.

Time and thought have given me perspective.

In the interest of "please, learn from my mistakes!", here's my "what worked and what didn't" list.

The launch ended up being WAY more crowded than the last one -- the last one was a "walk on up, give them the card, maybe wait for one or two people to wrap up and then launch" situation. Saturday's was a "20 people getting L1 and probably close to 100 people there" thing. And the launch gear was late to the launch; instead of being in the air by 10:30 like I figured, I launched (just for the shakedown flight!) around 1pm. And because I had something I had to be at with a planned departure no later than 2pm, stress level was REALLY high. Lesson learned: L2 can be an all-day affair. Plan for that and don't make specific plans later.

The checklist was great and really helped with the stress. There was no "what am I forgetting", just "go to the checklist. What's next?". I was updating it on my laptop; it would have made tons more sense to print it out and stick it on my table.

I should have brought a trash bag.

I need to buy a new camera - once again, I got video of the wrong thing. 2 minutes of me prepping the rocket, then nothing. That could be because the 808 camera ran out of battery and wasn't able to write the video, I don't know. But it's sad - I figured I'd at least have video of this. Think I'm going to make an order soon for a "proper" 808 camera from LiquidFyre.

Solid choice: I couldn't get the Altimeter 3 to pair with my phone. I'm working through that with the ever-helpful John Beans, but I spent maybe 20 minutes messing with it then said "OK, it's not working, don't need to stress about this (and if it DOES start working, I'm going to worry if it's still paired/recording). Swapped to my Estes altimeter and didn't look back. That worked fine.

I really need to get a switch for my Eggfinder. Part of what took ages with the rocket prep (even with a power screwdriver) was installing the NC. There are 7 screws, each with a suicidal tendency to want to fly off into the lush green grass and get hidden forever. A switch that can be operated with the nose cone installed would be enormously helpful.

Not 100% sure on what happened with the Chute Release, but here's what I know: The rubber band was broken. My current theories
-The rubber band was old and just failed. Entirely possible, I installed it about 2 years ago. Should have put in a new one. It looked OK (visual inspection of the band was on my checklist) but I should put a new band in every flying season.
-I made some sort of error in packing and the chute yanked away from the Chute Release during ejection. Possible, but I don't think so - the chute and the CR were both attached to a quicklink.
-I broke the rubber band myself while re-installing the Chute Release. This was a 100% boneheaded thing I did: When I was at the pad, I re-armed the CR, thinking "hey, I don't want a "stale" sample in there because I turned it on half an hour ago. I'm thinking my new rule is "once it's packed, it's packed. No checking anything on the launch pad. When I start walking to the launch pad, the rocket is together until I pick it up"

Some good stuff:
Openrocket sim was pretty accurate. I had a nose over 3500 feet, actual flight was to 3470 or so. Not bad.
Estes altimeter worked great.
Though I didn't need it THAT much (that 36" chute is REALLY visible from the ground!), the Eggfinder did exactly what I wanted. Never lost signal, beeped out coordinates til I walked right up to the rocket (also seeing the final altitude of ~80 feet above where I'd started gave me the bad news even before I got there).
I way overstudied for the L2 test. But that meant that I blew through it with no pauses. The questions were like old friends. Overstudying meant that the test went by quickly and uneventfully and I could focus on launching.


I've got about a week before what is probably the last launch of the season and I'm considering going for L2 one more time. Apart from the Chute Release failure ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?") the launch was successful - recovery gear deployed, rocket is intact, delay timing was perfect.
 
Wow, how frustrating. Only thing I can say is, on a cert flight, make sure everything is optimal -- new battery, new rubberband, new harness, new chute. Anything can fail when it gets some age on it; chutes rip, harnesses fray, batteries test 8.9 V at the bench, then end up being 8.4 V at the pad, etc., etc.

But really, it is all about learning, and you are doing that. Next time's the charm.
 
Ugh.. That sucks.

Our launches are small and if we have over 2 dozen people I would be surprised. Rarely have to wait in line. Even then my flight was an all day affair. Prepping then waiting took up most of the time, waiting for the inspections and Q&A about my rocket. After the flight and clean up it was knocking on 2 PM (I started prepping around 10 AM). Not wanting to clean any more motor cases, we ate a quick lunch and packed up.

I nearly always forget a trash bag.

This isn't helping but had you gone straight to a J motor, the rocket may have had enough altitude to give you a few more feet of drift and avoided the tree. But even hanging in a tree, it still should've been a pass right? Unless the individual doing the cert would have failed you for the main popping at apogee and not following described flight plan. Not trying or wanting to get into that discussion here though.

Like Bat-mite says, you're learning. That's important. Can't say you are having fun while doing it with all the frustration though. The shakedown flight and test are behind you now though. Next flight just prep and go.
 
I hear your pain, and have a similar story! I tried to fly my L2 cert last month, and since I was going to use a J350 for the flight, I had to burn the I600 I already had loaded in my 720 case first. I loaded the bird on the pad for the shakedown flight, and then just seconds before launch, the nosecone ejected... I recycled, and found that my backup altimeter blew the backup main charge. After replacing the charge, and repacking the main, I placed the rocket back on the pad 45 minutes later, only to have the same thing happen as I was walking back to the LCO table. At that point I pretty much decided to scrub for the day and troubleshoot.

Plenty of ground testing later, I have not been able to find a problem, but I replaced the RRC2 that I had as the backup with a Perfectflite SL. Now it is looking like the launch next week might get rained out, which will delay my L2 attempt until May at the earliest for me.
 
That's probably the mistake, using a two year old previously used band that had two years to decompose with a(n) (partial) exposure to ejection gases. Heck, if just doing a run-of-the-mill flight then O.K. if the band fails you just walk farther and unfortunately yours ended up in a tree. A cert flight I'd have a tendency to use a "fresh" band that's been stored properly.

I have some old high start rubber for flying sailplanes that was stored in a cool dry place and it's just aged-out brittle and of no use anymore after 20 years. Rubberbands are consumables and be treated as such. Better luck next flight.

Kris, ditch the defective altimeter and use a single "good" altimeter. I take it no Rf tracker was being used? People have flown plenty of single altimeter projects without issue. Kurt
 
Great summary of your flight ALAK. Sounds like you are sensible in your approach and analysis.

Personally I don't get too hung up on video not working. The success of the flight is the primary objective. Also, think about taking a rubbish bin rather than a bag. They don't blow around as much.

Better luck next time.
 
Looks like you tried to pack too much into your short day. I did my exam one day, shakedown flight another day, and finally the cert flight on a third launch day. The Journey.

The person who issues the test, inspects your rocket, and signs off on the cert flight is often a high profile person in the club, or perhaps a vendor. These guys are usually very busy and occupied with other matters (or shooting the bull!). Need to plan for their time.

Your shakedown motor was not much less than your planned cert motor. I like a shakedown flight to be about 1500 ft, so I can see everything.

As mentioned, all your electronic gizmos - Eggfinder, camera, Chute Release, A3, Estes altimeter - require a lot of fiddling. Ditch 3 or 4 of those things for the cert flight to keep it simple. Personally, I think traditional, 2 tube dual deploy is more reliable than a chute bundle of some sort. A flopping burrito often comes undone, or not undone, when you least expect it.

Sounds like you identified all the issues, so the next flight will go nicely!
 
Bat-mite said:
Wow, how frustrating. Only thing I can say is, on a cert flight, make sure everything is optimal -- new battery, new rubberband, new harness, new chute. Anything can fail when it gets some age on it; chutes rip, harnesses fray, batteries test 8.9 V at the bench, then end up being 8.4 V at the pad, etc., etc.

But really, it is all about learning, and you are doing that. Next time's the charm.
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Thanks. Yeah ... funny, they are having a launch in a week. I already have a mid-afternoon commitment. Part of me REALLY wanted to try to make the cert happen....but then I thought "what did I literally type 3 hours ago...."

If L2 happens this year, it does; if it doesn't, it doesn't.
 
krislhull said:
I hear your pain, and have a similar story! I tried to fly my L2 cert last month, and since I was going to use a J350 for the flight, I had to burn the I600 I already had loaded in my 720 case first. I loaded the bird on the pad for the shakedown flight, and then just seconds before launch, the nosecone ejected... I recycled, and found that my backup altimeter blew the backup main charge. After replacing the charge, and repacking the main, I placed the rocket back on the pad 45 minutes later, only to have the same thing happen as I was walking back to the LCO table. At that point I pretty much decided to scrub for the day and troubleshoot.

Plenty of ground testing later, I have not been able to find a problem, but I replaced the RRC2 that I had as the backup with a Perfectflite SL. Now it is looking like the launch next week might get rained out, which will delay my L2 attempt until May at the earliest for me.
Click to expand...


That's insane. I mean, better for it to happen on the ground than at 500 feet up on the way up....but still frustrating.
 
Buckeye said:
Looks like you tried to pack too much into your short day. I did my exam one day, shakedown flight another day, and finally the cert flight on a third launch day. The Journey.

The person who issues the test, inspects your rocket, and signs off on the cert flight is often a high profile person in the club, or perhaps a vendor. These guys are usually very busy and occupied with other matters (or shooting the bull!). Need to plan for their time.

Your shakedown motor was not much less than your planned cert motor. I like a shakedown flight to be about 1500 ft, so I can see everything.

As mentioned, all your electronic gizmos - Eggfinder, camera, Chute Release, A3, Estes altimeter - require a lot of fiddling. Ditch 3 or 4 of those things for the cert flight to keep it simple. Personally, I think traditional, 2 tube dual deploy is more reliable than a chute bundle of some sort. A flopping burrito often comes undone, or not undone, when you least expect it.

Sounds like you identified all the issues, so the next flight will go nicely!
Click to expand...

It should. And depending on how things go ... I may have a bigger/heavier rocket I can use for cert. Part of the problem with this is it's fabulous at going straight up really, really fast. On a full J it sims to 6100 feet with max velocity of 800 mph.
 
Bat-mite said:
Wow, how frustrating. Only thing I can say is, on a cert flight, make sure everything is optimal -- new battery, new rubberband, new harness, new chute. Anything can fail when it gets some age on it; chutes rip, harnesses fray, batteries test 8.9 V at the bench, then end up being 8.4 V at the pad, etc., etc.

But really, it is all about learning, and you are doing that. Next time's the charm.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with all that. If your old chute and harnesses are in good condition then use them for your cert flight. If they are in bad shape then replace them whether it's a cert flight or not. I'm not going to be buying another $400 chute for my L3 flight when my old one is perfectly good. And I keep using 9V batteries as long as they keep testing at at least 9.0V.
 
Nathan said:
I don't agree with all that. If your old chute and harnesses are in good condition then use them for your cert flight. If they are in bad shape then replace them whether it's a cert flight or not. I'm not going to be buying another $400 chute for my L3 flight when my old one is perfectly good. And I keep using 9V batteries as long as they keep testing at at least 9.0V.
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Agreed. I think it's 100% important to CHECK the harnesses and chute(s) before a launch. But just saying "welp, that chute's seen a couple of flights so it's gone" is silly. If you have obvious physical damage that can't be repaired, then yeah, by all means, replace. For a cert flight, I'll definitely start with a new rubber band and either freshly-charged LiPos or brand-new batteries - I have enough stuff that uses 9v batteries that I can retire something from "rocket" status to "electronic toy/garage door opener/stud finder" usage where if it starts to fail I can replace it. I swapped my Eggfinder receiver from AA to LiPo so that I can charge it and not have to buy fresh AAs for every launch.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
Agreed. I think it's 100% important to CHECK the harnesses and chute(s) before a launch. But just saying "welp, that chute's seen a couple of flights so it's gone" is silly. If you have obvious physical damage that can't be repaired, then yeah, by all means, replace. For a cert flight, I'll definitely start with a new rubber band and either freshly-charged LiPos or brand-new batteries - I have enough stuff that uses 9v batteries that I can retire something from "rocket" status to "electronic toy/garage door opener/stud finder" usage where if it starts to fail I can replace it. I swapped my Eggfinder receiver from AA to LiPo so that I can charge it and not have to buy fresh AAs for every launch.
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Agreed. I shouldn't have said "new." What I meant was, if something looks doubtful, replace it. But something cheap like a rubberband? Totally not worth the risk. Likewise, why risk a $1000 rocket for the sake of trying to get one last flight out of a 9V battery that is reading 8.9V? And no, I'm not saying get a new chute for every flight. God knows, I am the ultimate cheapskate. But if it's a cert flight, try to avoid thoughts like, "That burn hole isn't that bad ...." :)
 
Bat-mite said:
Agreed. I shouldn't have said "new." What I meant was, if something looks doubtful, replace it. But something cheap like a rubberband? Totally not worth the risk. Likewise, why risk a $1000 rocket for the sake of trying to get one last flight out of a 9V battery that is reading 8.9V? And no, I'm not saying get a new chute for every flight. God knows, I am the ultimate cheapskate. But if it's a cert flight, try to avoid thoughts like, "That burn hole isn't that bad ...." :)
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I actually remember prepping the rocket and thinking "OK, that rubber band looks fine" and moving on with the next thing. A moment's further reflection and I would have thought "Hey, REPLACE THAT RUBBER BAND, dummy." Chalking it up to Launch Fever.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
I actually remember prepping the rocket and thinking "OK, that rubber band looks fine" and moving on with the next thing. A moment's further reflection and I would have thought "Hey, REPLACE THAT RUBBER BAND, dummy." Chalking it up to Launch Fever.
Click to expand...

Add that to your checklist, to replace (not reuse) the rubber band.


Steve Shannon
 
Just did my L2 this weekend, a lot of great advice and lessons learned already. To that I'll just add:
1) As you noticed, it really does take a long time to prep for the cert flight, longer than you'll think. Between nerves, not being able to pre-prep anything (so the L2 mentor could witness if he wanted to), and talking through it with him, my setup which would normally take ~30 min at most took a bit over an hour. I made it my first flight of the day and went into it mentally prepared to call it a day after the cert attempt, if necessary.

2) I did do a shakedown flight, but it was on ~half the impulse of the cert. I had a number of first flight items on this rocket (it was my heaviest, first redundant dual deploy, and actually the first time I'd done "traditional" DD on a cardboard rocket) so I figured it would be good to lob one up to a low altitude (1500 ft) so I could get a good view of the whole sequence. Turned out to be a good idea - the shakedown had an unplanned main at apogee, so I added a shear pin for the cert flight and that went perfectly. Now the main at apogee wouldn't have been a fail, but it would have been an annoyingly long walk.

That said, I wouldn't have done a shakedown flight if it weren't for those first flight items and the fact that I had a motor available that worked nicely for a low-alt first flight. If you're going to fly a profile almost identical to your cert attempt... why waste a potentially cert qualifying flight? There's no penalty for failing a cert flight, and there's always an element of luck involved. Especially if you have a motor vendor (or another flyer willing to spot you a motor) - if you have time for 2 flights, just plan on two flights with a J, that way you can re-attempt if you have a minor issue on the first one. But either flight would work.

3) The rubber bands are a weak point of the JLCR. I've never had the supplied ones last more than one or two launch days (time seems to be the big issue, as is swapping the band off - tying it on seems to be the highest stress). I've seen another flyer with a stupidly good idea: just replace the rubber bands with sewing elastic, which is a lot more durable. Also makes it much easier to have a custom size for each chute.
 

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