2018 National Sport Launch (NSL)

Clarifying question:

Are low power (black powder) clusters and staged rockets allowed?

I recall that we were allowed to fly these on this field at NYPOWER 21. Still OK for NSL this year or have things changed?

(Looking to fly a 2-stage Estes CC Express on staged D12 motors, and a Flis Kits Deuces Wild with a 2X C6 cluster)

So I just noticed this on the NSL FAQ page:

"Due to the proximity of the Museum and aircraft MARS does not allow High Power clusters or staging. Clusters and parallel or drop-away staging introduce too many variables in flight. Black powder motor clusters are allowed, as is black-powder staging in Estes style rockets."

(So just answered my own question...LP BP clusters and LP BP staging are allowed.)

What about "drop-away" LPR black powder staging? I have a parallel staged rocket I'm hoping to fly on an E9-6 and 2 B6-4s.

LithosphereRocketry said:

What about "drop-away" LPR black powder staging? I have a parallel staged rocket I'm hoping to fly on an E9-6 and 2 B6-4s.

Click to expand...

Are you using electronics to ignite the second stage?

EeebeeE said:

Are you using electronics to ignite the second stage?

Click to expand...

Everything ignites on the ground. The side boosters are held on by their own thrust and drop away at burnout.

LithosphereRocketry said:

Everything ignites on the ground. The side boosters are held on by their own thrust and drop away at burnout.

Click to expand...

Black powder clusters and staging is allowed.

Rocketmom said:

Black powder clusters and staging is allowed.

Click to expand...

OK, thanks.

Folks sorry to weigh in so late, but I haven't had an opportunity to check into TRF for quite some time due to work commitments.
Evan and our LD, MaryBeth have kept you all fully informed.
I want to expand on one item - rail buttons.
For those that don't want to add them to their mid power birds, (and quite honestly I would recommend that to avoid issues at other future launches) we will have fly away rail guides, courtesy of AMW that can be borrowed for your launch.
While we certainly appreciate this is a national launch, and fliers are literally coming from all over N. America, I would hope most folks who have been flying for a while can appreciate the fact that fields have certain restrictions which are necessary to keep them viable.
We have posted information in advance to avoid any last minute surprises.
One other thing, this NSL will be very special.
We are all pumped to be hosting this one. I am sure those of you who have visited the Face Book NAR/Tripoli groups may have seen some pictures of what is planned.
I am looking forward to seeing many of you at NSL 2018, which will certainly be one for the record books!
Greg

LithosphereRocketry said:

Everything ignites on the ground. The side boosters are held on by their own thrust and drop away at burnout.

Click to expand...

That should be cool to see.

If you are still on the fence about whether or not to come, and are thinking you could buy banquet tickets if you register on the field, you might be out of luck. As of tonight, the banquet is about 80% sold out. There aren't that many seats left. May as well register and buy your banquet seats before they are all gone. It should be a great night with Vern and Gleda Estes.

So what are some of the coolest prizes, you ask? Here's a partial list with retail values in parentheses.

MARSA 33 with MarsaNet System, incl. MrfBridge & remote pyro ($317)
4.5" FG MadCow Osprey kit ($453.95)
Rocketman 14' Pro X Parachute ($225)
LOC 4" Goblin kit ($103)
Big Red Bee 900MHz with LCD Screen ($378)
Jolly Logic Chute Release ($129.95)
AMW Proconsul kit from NSL 2003, #41 out of 50 (this is a rare, out-of-production kit)

There are lots more.

Greg Young said:

rail buttons.
For those that don't want to add them to their mid power birds, (and quite honestly I would recommend that to avoid issues at other future launches) we will have fly away rail guides, courtesy of AMW that can be borrowed for your launch.

Greg

Click to expand...

What an AWESOME thing..

This.. This is why I give them my money...

AMW!!! The ONLY way to fly~

For those that haven’t flown at Geneseo, you really must make the trip. I have had the pleasure of flying there once and it was an awesome weekend. It’s a beautiful venue and the town is full of great food and nice people. The site is very close to town so you can drive back to the hotel to freshen up mid day if needed. It ranks up there are one of the best I have seen and hope I get to go again one day.

A couple videos from Geneseo to get a flavor of the field. Our annual large event is NYPower, held on Memorial Day weekend. It really is the only annual international rocketry festival. We have several Canadians come in from Quebec, Ottawa, and Toronto to fly with us, and that gives this event a very unique flavor. NSL 2018 will be ... kind of the same ... just a lot bigger.

NYPower 21
[YOUTUBE]C4l6kfuQYA&t=45s[/YOUTUBE]

NYPower 19
[YOUTUBE]H2N69emDna4[/YOUTUBE]

NYPower 18
[YOUTUBE]XQGavFsKnrE[/YOUTUBE]

NYPower 12
[YOUTUBE]tiAOf-U6yWg[/YOUTUBE]

Of course we cannot show rocket flights from Geneseo without showing one of our most ... interesting ... flights we ever had. Linda "Torch" Newman's Der Red Max BOG. Flying on an M840
[YOUTUBE]mQkX_-zzBEc[/YOUTUBE]

EeebeeE said:

Of course we cannot show rocket flights from Geneseo without showing one of our most ... interesting ... flights we ever had. Linda "Torch" Newman's Der Red Max BOG. Flying on an M840[YOUTUBE]mQkX_-zzBEc[/YOUTUBE]

Click to expand...

You have to be a bit more specific. I think Linda sacrificed more than one GDRM on the altar of a long burn M.

This was the first CATO. At least this one got off the ground.

I'm not the one that added the music and changed it to slow motion and posted on U-Tube

But that is my video....

Glad I was able to capture it. Somewhat spectacular....

Great video. Unfortunately, I was in a cornfield looking for a rocket when it happened.

We are three weeks away from NSL. We have LOTs of fliers registered. A couple things you should know...

Our banquet, when Vern and Gleda will talk about the early days of Estes Rockets, is almost completely sold out. There are five tickets left as I write this, and I expect it will be sold out this weekend. If you don't buy tickets immediately, you will be SOL. The state of New York is very strict about room capacity. We cannot have standing-room ticket sales. If you miss buying a seat, you are out of luck.

There are still a couple hotel rooms left, but not many.

We have fliers from Sea to Shining Sea. Today we had registrations from CA, and WA. Thanks to everyone who has registered. This will be a very fun event with people coming from all over the country. If you haven't registered yet, you have one more week to do so online. After that you will need to register at the event.

The banquet has sold out. There will still be opportunities to meet Vern and Gleda on the field Saturday and Sunday.

EeebeeE said:

The banquet has sold out. There will still be opportunities to meet Vern and Gleda on the field Saturday and Sunday.

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Life got in the way, and I wont be able to arrive until mid-Sunday, at the earliest.
So banquet and banquet raffles are out.
BBQ dinner on Sunday, Sunday dusk launch, and post-NSL party are still in.

A few quick Qs for anyone who might know the answers:
- Is there any point in buying non-banquet raffle tickets? Where is the raffle administered?
- When does the post-NSL party start/end?
- We are thinking of stringing Niagra trip at the end of NSL. Any heads-up on crossing the border with a bunch of rockets and rocket motors in the trunk?

TIA,
a

afadeev said:

Life got in the way, and I wont be able to arrive until mid-Sunday, at the earliest.
So banquet and banquet raffles are out.
BBQ dinner on Sunday, Sunday dusk launch, and post-NSL party are still in.

A few quick Qs for anyone who might know the answers:
- Is there any point in buying non-banquet raffle tickets? Where is the raffle administered?
- When does the post-NSL party start/end?
- We are thinking of stringing Niagra trip at the end of NSL. Any heads-up on crossing the border with a bunch of rockets and rocket motors in the trunk?

TIA,
a

Click to expand...

Rockets should be OK crossing the border. Don’t take the motors across. Canada has restrictions on motor ‘imports’.

Chris

There will be raffles run all weekend, on the field. We have some really nice stuff! MARSA altimeters, BigRed Bee Trakkers, lots of kits.....
The post party is at a Pub in town about 8 minutes from the field it would be nice if everyone helped us cleanup the range before starting at the pub.

Dont take motors or black powder into canada.

H_Rocket said:

You have to be a bit more specific. I think Linda sacrificed more than one GDRM on the altar of a long burn M.

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Forget what you DID see at Geneseo, have a peek at what your GOING to SEE
https://www.nar.org/site/nsl-2018/featured-flights/

Dan's Michael's 3/4 scale Patriot, Bill Davidson's HUGE Big Bertha! that is just a small taste! going to be a GREAT Event!

afadeev said:

- We are thinking of stringing Niagra trip at the end of NSL. Any heads-up on crossing the border with a bunch of rockets and rocket motors in the trunk?

Click to expand...

Looks like you are coming from NJ. Your best bet is to entrust your motors and BP to someone else from your club who is coming up. I know of Canadians who leave motors in the US with trustworthy Americans so they can just avoid all the hassle. From what I understand, Canadian customs is more difficult with respect to motors and BP than American.

That's something for you Michiganders to consider as well. The drive from Detroit to Rochester is about 5 hours if you cross through Canada instead of going through Toledo and Cleveland, which is about a 7.5 hour drive. But then you have to deal with customs. Of course, coming around the south side of Lake Erie, you have to deal with the Ohio Highway Patrol. Not sure which is worse. (Watch the movie, Cannonball Run).

For those who have to drive through Ohio, use the Star Wars philosophy when you see a Highway Patrolman... "Always two there are...a master, and an apprentice." If you see one patrolman, you will see another within about 5 minutes. :wink:

And when you are driving on the NY Thruway always think to yourself, "Hmm...could a state policeman be hiding behind that clump of trees in the median?"

As a Canadian (and one who has a local US resident look after "most of" my motors) I can offer this:

You are allowed to 'import' [bring into Canada] 6 BP motors, each no larger than 'E' impulse. APCL is verboten, as well as cans of BP and e-matches (and switchblades, brass knuckles, stun guns, most fruit & vegetables, etc...)

However, we are allowed to 'export' [leave Canada with] 6 BP motors, each no larger than 'E' impulse. And, we can enter the US with as much APCL as we can fly in a day (or three!)

(Another reason why I fly in the US!)

Rockets are no problem

dr wogz said:

...And, we can enter the US with as much APCL as we can fly in a day (or three!)...

Click to expand...

You might want to verify this statement. A border agent that does not care is not the same thing as legally allowed to cross a border with APCP motors.

A free trip to Guantanamo sounds good but I bet its not.

Threemorewishes said:

You might want to verify this statement. A border agent that does not care is not the same thing as legally allowed to cross a border with APCP motors.

A free trip to Guantanamo sounds good but I bet its not.

Click to expand...

The point is somewhat moot. Since a Canadian (or anyone else for that matter) cannot leave Canada with anything but 6 BP motors E or under, it is not possible for a Canadian to enter the US with any AP motors. I think what Paul is implying is that once in the States, you can buy as much AP as you want to buy regardless of nationality. You just generally cannot leave the US with it because of the laws of other countries. Kind of like buying pot in Jamaica. Smoke it there. Don't try to bring it back. :wink:

However, speaking of BP and e-matches, you should know that BP can be difficult to find the state of NY. Most gun shops only carry Pyrodex because of restrictive state laws. So if you are driving here from another state and need BP, try to pick it up before you get here. I have family in Ohio so when I go there, I will pick up a pound if I need some. From what I understand, it is also readily available in PA. If you aren't able to, I am pretty sure a friendly rocketeer will help you out once you are here, however.

I knew an American alcoholic who came back into the US from Canada in tears, sobbing..."It can't be done!" So I asked, "What can't be done." He said, "You cannot drink Canada dry!"

Greg, Evan, I have on very good authority that APCL is OK (bringing it into the US from Canada), as long as you don't intend to sell it or bring it in in excess of what would typically be used in a day.

This is from some CBS agents & and an import specialist.

A Canadian club mate & local US flyer was pulled into secondary a few weeks ago, to discuss his rocketry. They didn't quite know what is & isn't allowed. But, he had the information from the CBS agent & the specialist. They (the boarder guys) made a call, and came back with a "thank you, we now know a bit more. have a good day!" and he was allowed to proceed to the event. he had 2 packs of Estes BP, and 3 loaded AT cases, mainly 'G' motors.

Yes, this information is very hard to find. Canadian import laws are easy to find, US ones (on this ) are hard. (You pretty much need to take a day & visit a boarder crossing to ask for it. Even then, it'll take time..)

Having the information was key, as it showed we have done our homework and have done what we can to get a clear ruling on this.

Talk to Bill W. as well..

Thanks, Paul. You and Bill W. would no much more than I or most Americans would, although I did think you could take a limited amount of AP motors back across the border. We are expecting at least 15 Canadian fliers and families. Maybe more.