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Yes, REALLY.
"Navy says cyber sabotage played 'no role' in USS John S. McCain incident"
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/0...tigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html
Last edited:
Another U.S. Navy ship collides with a merchant vessel
- Thread starter Zeus-cat
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Yes, REALLY.
"Navy says cyber sabotage played 'no role' in USS John S. McCain incident"
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/0...tigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html
Zeus-cat
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I see your point and do have sympathy for them for the same reasons. But taking responsibility and living with what happens are two of the burdens of command.
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+1...
May we all please remember...
They're are families here at home,,
When they heard the news they got sick to their stomach..
Then they heard nothing for 2 days or so..
Then a knock on the door.....
The next 10 or 15 years after that knock will fundamentally change who and what you are.....
Teddy
I personally don't believe a thing the Government puts out as public information, especially where the military is concerned.
Personally, I see a pattern here.
It will eventually come out that there is a responsible party, group, cell, etc...responsible.
Which will give good reason for another aggressive first attack plan.
Something that has been in the works for months.
Just my :2:
My sympathies for the Fallen and their Family's.
Personally, I see a pattern here.
It will eventually come out that there is a responsible party, group, cell, etc...responsible.
Which will give good reason for another aggressive first attack plan.
Something that has been in the works for months.
Just my :2:
My sympathies for the Fallen and their Family's.
I have mentioned before that I have a friend whose daughter is currently aboard a destroyer. In light of what we are discussing, he posted this link "Ten Things You Probably Didn't Know About Life on a Destroyer" and then included the following comment:
Winston
Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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Clustering of common events, especially when clustered in both time and location, events not known by most to be common, can trick people into perceiving something unusual is occurring when it isn't, like the reporting of extremely common large bird and fish kills which happen to take place in close time and location proximity then leading to reporting of something very strange going on. If large ship collisions and GPS malfunctions are common (I have no idea whether they are), then this could be the case with this, too.
US Navy collisions stoke cyber threat concerns
21 Aug 2017
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html
WASHINGTON - The Pentagon won’t yet say how the USS John S. McCain was rammed by an oil tanker near Singapore, but red flags are flying as the Navy’s decades-old reliance on electronic guidance systems increasing looks like another target of cyberattack.
The incident – the fourth involving a Seventh Fleet warship this year – occurred near the Strait of Malacca, a crowded 1.7-mile-wide waterway that connects the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea and accounts for roughly 25 percent of global shipping.
“When you are going through the Strait of Malacca, you can’t tell me that a Navy destroyer doesn’t have a full navigation team going with full lookouts on every wing and extra people on radar,” said Jeff Stutzman, chief intelligence officer at Wapack Labs, a New Boston, New Hampshire, cyber intelligence service.
“There’s something more than just human error going on because there would have been a lot of humans to be checks and balances,” said Stutzman, a former information warfare specialist in the Navy.
On Jan. 31, a guided missile cruiser, the USS Antietam, ran aground off the coast of Japan. On May 9, another cruiser, USS Lake Champlain, was struck by a South Korean fishing vessel.
In the wee hours of June 17, a destroyer, the USS Fitzgerald, a $1.5 billion vessel bristling with electronics, collided with a container ship, resulting in the deaths of seven sailors. The commanding officer and two other officers were formally removed from duties.
“I don’t have proof, but you have to wonder if there were electronic issues,” Stutzman said.
Todd E. Humphreys, a professor at the University of Texas and expert in satellite navigation systems, echoed a similar concern: “Statistically, it looks very suspicious, doesn’t it?”
These irregularities are affecting the shipping industry too.
In a little noticed June 22 incident, someone manipulated GPS signals in the eastern part of the Black Sea, leaving some 20 ships with little situational awareness. Shipboard navigation equipment, which appeared to be working properly, reported the location of the vessels 20 miles inland, near an airport.
That was the first known instance of GPS “spoofing,” or misdirection.
Much more serious than jamming, spoofing interferes with location even as computer screens offer normal readouts. Everything looks normal – but it isn’t.
“We saw it done in, I would say, a really unsubtle way, a really ham-fisted way. It was probably a signal that came from the Russian mainland,” Humphreys said.
Such spoofing once required expensive equipment and deep software coding skills. But Humphreys said it can now be done with off-the-shelf gear and easily attainable software.
“Imagine the English Channel, one of the most highly trafficked shipping lanes in the world, and also subject to bad weather. Hundreds and hundreds of ships are going back and forth. It would be mayhem if the right team came in there and decided to do a spoofing attack,” Humphreys said.
The U.S. military uses encrypted signals for geolocation of vessels, rather than commercial GPS. Humphreys said there is no indication that faulty satellite communications were a culprit in the USS McCain accident.
Global shipping also was disrupted following a worldwide attack June 27 that hit hundreds of thousands of computers. Shipping giant A.P. Moller-Maersk was reduced to manual tracking of cargo amid the attack, and its chief executive Soren Skou this month announced losses of up to $300 million.
Most global trade occurs on the high seas, and the number of ocean-going ships has quadrupled in the past quarter century. Ships are also getting larger. The largest container ship now can carry more than 21,000 20-foot containers.
Autonomous ships operated by computers are on the near-term horizon. The world’s first crewless ship, an electric-powered vessel with capacity for 100 to 150 cargo containers, will begin a 37-mile route in southern Norway with limited crew next year, transitioning to full autonomy in 2020.
Most ships avoid collision through the use of a global protocol known as Automatic Identification System, or AIS. Beacons aboard ships transmit vessel name, cargo, course and speed, and readouts aboard ships display other vessels in the vicinity.
But the AIS system is known to be vulnerable.
“You can send an AIS beacon out and claim just about whatever you like. You can make a phantom ship appear,” Humphreys said.
It’s not just cargo carriers that rely on GPS and AIS beacons.
“Passenger shipping organizations and cruise lines … can be easily impacted,” said Eduardo E. Cabrera, chief cybersecurity officer at Trend Micro, a Tokyo-based cybersecurity firm.
Other factors can cause breeches on shipboard systems. Stutzman said crews rotate constantly, meaning shipboard log-on procedures are often simple and shared widely. Moreover, ship crews often download quantities of movies, books, and music while onshore to fight boredom while at sea, often linking to onboard networks and exposing them to viruses.
US Navy collisions stoke cyber threat concerns
21 Aug 2017
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html
WASHINGTON - The Pentagon won’t yet say how the USS John S. McCain was rammed by an oil tanker near Singapore, but red flags are flying as the Navy’s decades-old reliance on electronic guidance systems increasing looks like another target of cyberattack.
The incident – the fourth involving a Seventh Fleet warship this year – occurred near the Strait of Malacca, a crowded 1.7-mile-wide waterway that connects the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea and accounts for roughly 25 percent of global shipping.
“When you are going through the Strait of Malacca, you can’t tell me that a Navy destroyer doesn’t have a full navigation team going with full lookouts on every wing and extra people on radar,” said Jeff Stutzman, chief intelligence officer at Wapack Labs, a New Boston, New Hampshire, cyber intelligence service.
“There’s something more than just human error going on because there would have been a lot of humans to be checks and balances,” said Stutzman, a former information warfare specialist in the Navy.
On Jan. 31, a guided missile cruiser, the USS Antietam, ran aground off the coast of Japan. On May 9, another cruiser, USS Lake Champlain, was struck by a South Korean fishing vessel.
In the wee hours of June 17, a destroyer, the USS Fitzgerald, a $1.5 billion vessel bristling with electronics, collided with a container ship, resulting in the deaths of seven sailors. The commanding officer and two other officers were formally removed from duties.
“I don’t have proof, but you have to wonder if there were electronic issues,” Stutzman said.
Todd E. Humphreys, a professor at the University of Texas and expert in satellite navigation systems, echoed a similar concern: “Statistically, it looks very suspicious, doesn’t it?”
These irregularities are affecting the shipping industry too.
In a little noticed June 22 incident, someone manipulated GPS signals in the eastern part of the Black Sea, leaving some 20 ships with little situational awareness. Shipboard navigation equipment, which appeared to be working properly, reported the location of the vessels 20 miles inland, near an airport.
That was the first known instance of GPS “spoofing,” or misdirection.
Much more serious than jamming, spoofing interferes with location even as computer screens offer normal readouts. Everything looks normal – but it isn’t.
“We saw it done in, I would say, a really unsubtle way, a really ham-fisted way. It was probably a signal that came from the Russian mainland,” Humphreys said.
Such spoofing once required expensive equipment and deep software coding skills. But Humphreys said it can now be done with off-the-shelf gear and easily attainable software.
“Imagine the English Channel, one of the most highly trafficked shipping lanes in the world, and also subject to bad weather. Hundreds and hundreds of ships are going back and forth. It would be mayhem if the right team came in there and decided to do a spoofing attack,” Humphreys said.
The U.S. military uses encrypted signals for geolocation of vessels, rather than commercial GPS. Humphreys said there is no indication that faulty satellite communications were a culprit in the USS McCain accident.
Global shipping also was disrupted following a worldwide attack June 27 that hit hundreds of thousands of computers. Shipping giant A.P. Moller-Maersk was reduced to manual tracking of cargo amid the attack, and its chief executive Soren Skou this month announced losses of up to $300 million.
Most global trade occurs on the high seas, and the number of ocean-going ships has quadrupled in the past quarter century. Ships are also getting larger. The largest container ship now can carry more than 21,000 20-foot containers.
Autonomous ships operated by computers are on the near-term horizon. The world’s first crewless ship, an electric-powered vessel with capacity for 100 to 150 cargo containers, will begin a 37-mile route in southern Norway with limited crew next year, transitioning to full autonomy in 2020.
Most ships avoid collision through the use of a global protocol known as Automatic Identification System, or AIS. Beacons aboard ships transmit vessel name, cargo, course and speed, and readouts aboard ships display other vessels in the vicinity.
But the AIS system is known to be vulnerable.
“You can send an AIS beacon out and claim just about whatever you like. You can make a phantom ship appear,” Humphreys said.
It’s not just cargo carriers that rely on GPS and AIS beacons.
“Passenger shipping organizations and cruise lines … can be easily impacted,” said Eduardo E. Cabrera, chief cybersecurity officer at Trend Micro, a Tokyo-based cybersecurity firm.
Other factors can cause breeches on shipboard systems. Stutzman said crews rotate constantly, meaning shipboard log-on procedures are often simple and shared widely. Moreover, ship crews often download quantities of movies, books, and music while onshore to fight boredom while at sea, often linking to onboard networks and exposing them to viruses.
XolveJohn
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These collisions are just whacky! Our company van has $800 radar modules that tell when another car is next to you.
I know they cost $800 because one broke. Don't tell me the Navy can't afford better ones, maybe 8000' range, stuck on both sides of the ship, and the front. If they see something, just shut the engine off, set off a big siren, and call the captains I-fone with a screamy message! If I can solve this problem, they should be ashamed. I am a landlubber who got sea sick just going deep sea fishing one time.
I know they cost $800 because one broke. Don't tell me the Navy can't afford better ones, maybe 8000' range, stuck on both sides of the ship, and the front. If they see something, just shut the engine off, set off a big siren, and call the captains I-fone with a screamy message! If I can solve this problem, they should be ashamed. I am a landlubber who got sea sick just going deep sea fishing one time.
H_Rocket
Death by Powerpoint
I used to refer to a patrol on our ship as 105 days on a 400' ship with 190 people you hate.
Yes most of those things are true to an extent, the two that bothered me the most were:
- Getting seasick. My first trip was across the North Atlantic - The best weight loss plan ever. I lived on soda crackers and water for two weeks.
- The lack of privacy. Though you would be impressed at the creativity you can employ to get some alone time. My favorite was in a little space where the surface search radar equipment was kept. I would go sit there with a book and read.
The worst was a four day period where something when wrong with the fresh water system and we could not bathe for four days. Yeccch!
Conditions like that are why I am firmly in the camp that we do our young a disservice by coddling them. Even back then in the late 80's, it was culture shock to some. I get a mild sense of the giggles when I imagine some of the pampered kids I see today being dumped into that environment. One thing that most people here would likely not understand: GQ-III. We would stand rotating watches of eight hours on, eight off. The off included sleeping and eating. After a few days you get punchy. Not sure if these ships were running that condition. I do remember trying to diagnose and repair a UHF radio system while seasick and exhausted. Best part: nobody cared. It was essential that I got it running (and that damn thing barely worked while tied to the pier)
Service on a small warship is seriously a test of your mettle. On the other hand, regardless of how ridiculous work can get some days, I can always say I have been through worse.
mrichhcirm
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Possible, but i'd bet on "stupid accident" over "cyber-villains" any day.
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CPUTommy
Thrust cures All
Look at where the last 2 ships were hit, and tell me that it was NOT a strategic ramming.. The beauty of it all, The navy will never fire upon a merchant vessel.. This was no accident.. Impossible for both ships to be hit in the same relative spots.
2 navy ships now out of commission.. in the next 6 months there will be another...
And FYI, Both of the United States Navy ships themselves know where every surface contact is, there speed and Bering. WITH REDUNDANT SYSTEMS !!!!
In a busy shipping channel, with massive tankers/cargo and other war ships, to even suggest the crew was negligent is flat out moronic.
2 navy ships now out of commission.. in the next 6 months there will be another...
And FYI, Both of the United States Navy ships themselves know where every surface contact is, there speed and Bering. WITH REDUNDANT SYSTEMS !!!!
In a busy shipping channel, with massive tankers/cargo and other war ships, to even suggest the crew was negligent is flat out moronic.
H_Rocket
Death by Powerpoint
I'll go 1:1 with you on this. Lets say every freaking sensor system on the ship was compromised. GPS had them in downtown Omaha. Surface plot showed no contacts to max range. Air plot showed only the Wright brothers flyer, two kites, and your L2 rocket, ASW had a good school of trout.
I'll still say the fault was a lack of leadership coupled with poor training. If a suitable watch was in place and doing their jobs correctly, I doubt any of this would have happened. The negligence was at the leadership level, those who were working were unprepared to stop it.
I'm with Al on this one. You *might* be able to jam one or two systems, but even if, somehow, you managed to jam every single electronic system, you just can't jam eyeballs. The back-up to the back-up is that people still stand watch and I have to think that it would pretty doggone hard to miss seeing one of those giant cargo ships.
CPUTommy
Thrust cures All
so both ships were unmanned and not able to be navigated ?
Neither ship had wheel men
(driving into another ship)
Neither ship had watches
(There is always someone in command on the bridge)
In an open ocean..
(very busy shipping lane)
Neither ship had wheel men
(driving into another ship)
Neither ship had watches
(There is always someone in command on the bridge)
In an open ocean..
(very busy shipping lane)
Zeus-cat
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Both merchant ships that rammed our Navy ships were fairly large vessels. The ability of anyone to ram a fairly small, agile ship in a specific place with a large ship is almost impossible. I believe these were accidents and people simply weren't paying attention.
H_Rocket
Death by Powerpoint
All of those point to a complete breakdown of leadership and training. Large merchant vessels are like trains, they are not very maneuverable. The destroyer had to sit still and allow themselves to get hit. So unless they have come up with a stealth container ship, the bridge was either undermanned or there was some very poorly trained folks up there. A part of what I expect happened was that the bridge watch (including the deck officer) was afraid to take decisive action without consulting the CO. If that is the case, then they should not only relieve the CO, they should charge him as that would be grossly derelict in preparing his crew. The only other scenario I can imagine is they were so oblivious that by the time they realized, they did not have enough reaction time. I'd lay that one at the C.O.'s feet as well as it points to poor training.
By the way, I really believe a destroyer could unload their entire magazine at a large tanker/freighter and probably not have that much effect at close quarters.
CPUTommy
Thrust cures All
pretty sure having navigated a bass boat for the past 25 years, At speeds of 68-74 miles per hour, On lake winnipesaukee, the CT River, and many other places, Ive dealt with Jet Skis, Swimmers in the channel, and the first time pontoon driver oblivious to red/green markers, I can say that ive been able to avoid other vessels traveling at me, Around me and sometimes coming up from behind me.
A trained crew, in the Shipping lane... Sorry.. A mistake like this is not possible...
How many other tankers/cargo ships have been rammed broadside in the past 6 months? Let alone 2 U.S. Military vessels.
A trained crew, in the Shipping lane... Sorry.. A mistake like this is not possible...
How many other tankers/cargo ships have been rammed broadside in the past 6 months? Let alone 2 U.S. Military vessels.
H_Rocket
Death by Powerpoint
You are missing my point. I am saying that the root cause was likely a poorly trained and ill led crew. I was TAD on a ship that grounded on a sand bar. There was no conspiracy, the navigation team missed a cue that the water got shallow real quick. We were able to back off with no damage. The CO, Deck Officer, and QM in charge were all brought before a board of inquiry. The CO was relieved and the Deck Officer lost his qualifications (I understand that cost him on a performance review and in the end his career). Unless you have actually been on the bridge of a warship, comparing it to a bass boat with a big outboard and you paying close attention is a specious argument.
Also, it is not news when there is a commercial incident - unless ecological havoc takes place or there is something else notable. Most of those big ships are so automated that they have only a handful of crew so there is little potential for loss of life. As such if two of them go bump in the night, nobody hears about it.
Also, it is not news when there is a commercial incident - unless ecological havoc takes place or there is something else notable. Most of those big ships are so automated that they have only a handful of crew so there is little potential for loss of life. As such if two of them go bump in the night, nobody hears about it.
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So the conspiracy nuttery continues, I see.
"With the USS McCain collision, even Navy tech can’t overcome human shortcomings
One mistake can cascade into a disaster in heavy marine traffic, regardless of tech."
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...n-navy-tech-cant-overcome-human-shortcomings/
"With the USS McCain collision, even Navy tech can’t overcome human shortcomings
One mistake can cascade into a disaster in heavy marine traffic, regardless of tech."
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...n-navy-tech-cant-overcome-human-shortcomings/
Last edited:
XolveJohn
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HERE IS A FUN ARTICLE FOR YA'LL! 
:kill:
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/fdr-torpedo-us-navy-destroyer.html
[h=1]En Route to North Africa, FDR Was Almost Killed by a Torpedo Fired By A US Navy Destroyer[/h]There is truly no way to quantify who might be the worst crew in US Naval History, but the men of the USS William D. Porter circa 1943 deserve a fair shot at it. Mistakes happen in the chaos of war, and even the best have been known to make them. However, that typically doesn’t involve firing a live torpedo at the President of the United States as he traverses the Atlantic Ocean in the middle of a war.
It is certain that Hitler likely appreciated the help, but the President and Joint Chiefs on board the USS Iowa didn’t. Remarkably, this wasn’t the USS William D. Porter’s first mistake on this secretive voyage. So while we can’t say for certain this is the worst crew in US Naval History, it is a safe bet that no future ship will ever bear the name William D. Porter.
[h=6]The Willie Dee[/h]The USS William D. Porter (DD-579) was launched in September of 1942 and commissioned on July 6th, 1943. The crew was comprised of fairly young and inexperienced men as were many ships of the day when a nation had to ramp up a massive Navy to meet the immediate demands of war.
Time for training was short, but the crew was eager to get into the fight. And while it seemed the “Willie Dee” as it would become known was destined for a fairly standard role in the war that spanned the far corners of the ocean, a unique mission to escort the President of the United States would give it a place in naval infamy.
In November of 1943, just months after the Willie Dee was commissioned, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt would embark on a clandestine mission to cross the U-boat infested waters of the Atlantic and meet with Churchill and Stalin in Tehran. And as one would expect, FDR would warrant quite the Naval escort to ensure his safety in transit.
FDR along with the Secretary of State and the Joint Chiefs would board the massive Battleship USS Iowa. Two escort carriers would join the voyage along with 3 Destroyers, one of which was the Willie Dee.
In an almost hysterical and ominous sign, as the USS William D. Porter backed out from the docks at Norfolk, she forgot to raise her anchor in its entirety and snagged the railing of her sister ship as it backed out. Ripping off the railing, life rafts, small boats and other equipment, Captain Wilfred Walter could only apologize briefly to the other ship and then head out for a timely rendezvous with the USS Iowa.
But that wouldn’t be the end of trouble for this ill-fated crew.
[h=6]Almost Killed the President[/h]The USS William D. Porter made its rendezvous with the task force although they perhaps wished they had not. Radio silence was ordered for most of the trip that would make communication slightly more complicated than usual. So when the Willie Dee had an improperly secured depth charge fall off the side of the ship in rough seas and explode, it set the USS Iowa and the entire escort fleet into immediate evasive maneuvers as they assumed the fleet was under attack.
The truth eventually became known, and Captain Wilfred Walter was duly admonished considering the Chief of Naval Operation was traveling with FDR. Promising to improve, Captain Walter took the redirection to heart and continued with his mission.
Meanwhile, when the fleet was just east of Bermuda, it was reported that FDR wanted to get a look at how the ships could defend themselves if they came under attack. Weather balloons were sent aloft, and the USS Iowa fired its defensive weapons while FDR enjoyed the show from the deck.
As a few of the missed weather balloons drifted back towards the Willie Dee, Captain Walter decided to get in on the action. While firing their guns at the drifting balloons, he also simultaneously ordered a drill to practice a torpedo run. And since the USS Iowa was directly in front him, that made for a suitable target for this dry torpedo run.
Two mock firings went off without a hitch or torpedo in the water. However, with the third torpedo, the crew member below had failed to take out the priming pin that launched the torpedo into the water.
And to the horror of officers on the bridge, they heard the unmistakable sound of a torpedo in the water now heading straight for the President of the United States who was still on deck.
[h=6]A Close Encounter[/h]With radio silence still ordered and just minutes before the torpedo would reach its target, he ordered the crew to signal the USS Iowa with flashing lights. However, the young crew member could get it done and signaled an array of bizarre phrases to the Iowa as he became more flustered watching the torpedo slice through the water.
Captain Walter made the decision to break radio silence and frantically warn the USS Iowa to turn immediately.
The USS Iowa got the message and took a hard turn to avoid impact to such a degree that FDR’s wheelchair had to be stabilized to avoid rolling. The torpedo missed its mark just a few thousand yards into the ship’s wake, and FDR watched it detonate.
The next sight the Willie Dee would observe is the USS Iowa traversing its massive guns towards the Willie Dee as they attempted to find out what had happened. Captain Walter had explained, and the USS William D. Porter was not so politely asked to leave the convoy and head for Bermuda as their services were no longer needed.
Once in Bermuda, it is reported but not confirmed by the ships logs that armed Marines met them at the dock to investigate what had happened. The sailor responsible for firing the torpedo was given a punishment of hard labor that was eventually reduced by orders from FDR.
Recognizing it was a mistake of epic proportions, the crew was eventually given another assignment… in Alaska. Appropriately enough, when the USS William D. Porter would come into a Harbor or encounter another ship, she was often greeted with the phrase, “Don’t Shoot, I’m a Republican!”
The Willie Dee would continue to serve in some capacity in the Pacific until the morning June 10th, 1945 when a Kamikaze attack barreled down upon her from the sky. Remarkably, the attacking plane missed and then crashed into the ocean.
However, the Willie Dee would somehow find itself positioned right on top of the explosive-laden plane as it exploded under the water. The USS William D. Porter was lifted up and came crashing back down. The now experienced crew tried to save her, but the Willie Dee sunk to the bottom near Okinawa.
Miraculously, the crew survived and so it would end that the one time worst crews in the history of the US Navy would live to talk about the day they almost assassinated the President of the United States.
:kill:https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/fdr-torpedo-us-navy-destroyer.html
[h=1]En Route to North Africa, FDR Was Almost Killed by a Torpedo Fired By A US Navy Destroyer[/h]There is truly no way to quantify who might be the worst crew in US Naval History, but the men of the USS William D. Porter circa 1943 deserve a fair shot at it. Mistakes happen in the chaos of war, and even the best have been known to make them. However, that typically doesn’t involve firing a live torpedo at the President of the United States as he traverses the Atlantic Ocean in the middle of a war.
It is certain that Hitler likely appreciated the help, but the President and Joint Chiefs on board the USS Iowa didn’t. Remarkably, this wasn’t the USS William D. Porter’s first mistake on this secretive voyage. So while we can’t say for certain this is the worst crew in US Naval History, it is a safe bet that no future ship will ever bear the name William D. Porter.
[h=6]The Willie Dee[/h]The USS William D. Porter (DD-579) was launched in September of 1942 and commissioned on July 6th, 1943. The crew was comprised of fairly young and inexperienced men as were many ships of the day when a nation had to ramp up a massive Navy to meet the immediate demands of war.
Time for training was short, but the crew was eager to get into the fight. And while it seemed the “Willie Dee” as it would become known was destined for a fairly standard role in the war that spanned the far corners of the ocean, a unique mission to escort the President of the United States would give it a place in naval infamy.
In November of 1943, just months after the Willie Dee was commissioned, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt would embark on a clandestine mission to cross the U-boat infested waters of the Atlantic and meet with Churchill and Stalin in Tehran. And as one would expect, FDR would warrant quite the Naval escort to ensure his safety in transit.
FDR along with the Secretary of State and the Joint Chiefs would board the massive Battleship USS Iowa. Two escort carriers would join the voyage along with 3 Destroyers, one of which was the Willie Dee.
In an almost hysterical and ominous sign, as the USS William D. Porter backed out from the docks at Norfolk, she forgot to raise her anchor in its entirety and snagged the railing of her sister ship as it backed out. Ripping off the railing, life rafts, small boats and other equipment, Captain Wilfred Walter could only apologize briefly to the other ship and then head out for a timely rendezvous with the USS Iowa.
But that wouldn’t be the end of trouble for this ill-fated crew.
[h=6]Almost Killed the President[/h]The USS William D. Porter made its rendezvous with the task force although they perhaps wished they had not. Radio silence was ordered for most of the trip that would make communication slightly more complicated than usual. So when the Willie Dee had an improperly secured depth charge fall off the side of the ship in rough seas and explode, it set the USS Iowa and the entire escort fleet into immediate evasive maneuvers as they assumed the fleet was under attack.
The truth eventually became known, and Captain Wilfred Walter was duly admonished considering the Chief of Naval Operation was traveling with FDR. Promising to improve, Captain Walter took the redirection to heart and continued with his mission.
Meanwhile, when the fleet was just east of Bermuda, it was reported that FDR wanted to get a look at how the ships could defend themselves if they came under attack. Weather balloons were sent aloft, and the USS Iowa fired its defensive weapons while FDR enjoyed the show from the deck.
As a few of the missed weather balloons drifted back towards the Willie Dee, Captain Walter decided to get in on the action. While firing their guns at the drifting balloons, he also simultaneously ordered a drill to practice a torpedo run. And since the USS Iowa was directly in front him, that made for a suitable target for this dry torpedo run.
Two mock firings went off without a hitch or torpedo in the water. However, with the third torpedo, the crew member below had failed to take out the priming pin that launched the torpedo into the water.
And to the horror of officers on the bridge, they heard the unmistakable sound of a torpedo in the water now heading straight for the President of the United States who was still on deck.
[h=6]A Close Encounter[/h]With radio silence still ordered and just minutes before the torpedo would reach its target, he ordered the crew to signal the USS Iowa with flashing lights. However, the young crew member could get it done and signaled an array of bizarre phrases to the Iowa as he became more flustered watching the torpedo slice through the water.
Captain Walter made the decision to break radio silence and frantically warn the USS Iowa to turn immediately.
The USS Iowa got the message and took a hard turn to avoid impact to such a degree that FDR’s wheelchair had to be stabilized to avoid rolling. The torpedo missed its mark just a few thousand yards into the ship’s wake, and FDR watched it detonate.
The next sight the Willie Dee would observe is the USS Iowa traversing its massive guns towards the Willie Dee as they attempted to find out what had happened. Captain Walter had explained, and the USS William D. Porter was not so politely asked to leave the convoy and head for Bermuda as their services were no longer needed.
Once in Bermuda, it is reported but not confirmed by the ships logs that armed Marines met them at the dock to investigate what had happened. The sailor responsible for firing the torpedo was given a punishment of hard labor that was eventually reduced by orders from FDR.
Recognizing it was a mistake of epic proportions, the crew was eventually given another assignment… in Alaska. Appropriately enough, when the USS William D. Porter would come into a Harbor or encounter another ship, she was often greeted with the phrase, “Don’t Shoot, I’m a Republican!”
The Willie Dee would continue to serve in some capacity in the Pacific until the morning June 10th, 1945 when a Kamikaze attack barreled down upon her from the sky. Remarkably, the attacking plane missed and then crashed into the ocean.
However, the Willie Dee would somehow find itself positioned right on top of the explosive-laden plane as it exploded under the water. The USS William D. Porter was lifted up and came crashing back down. The now experienced crew tried to save her, but the Willie Dee sunk to the bottom near Okinawa.
Miraculously, the crew survived and so it would end that the one time worst crews in the history of the US Navy would live to talk about the day they almost assassinated the President of the United States.
Winston
Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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Here's What's In the Navy's Damning New Reports on Its Destroyer Collisions
Reviews show major breakdowns in leadership, training, and basic protocols are indicative of serious systemic issues.
1 Nov 2017
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...mning-new-reports-on-its-destroyer-collisions
After months of investigating the circumstances relating to two separate collisions between the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers USS Fitzgerald and USS John S. McCain and merchant ships in the Pacific Ocean, the U.S. Navy has determined both incidents were “preventable” and “avoidable,” blaming numerous officers and sailors for the incidents, which left a total of 17 Americans dead. The nature of accidents had initially seemed so bizarre that they quickly prompted a raft of conspiracy theories, but the official investigations reinforced subsequent reports that pointed instead to almost recklessly poor training and readiness standards and dangerously low morale.
USS McCain collision ultimately caused by UI confusion
CO ordered duties of helmsman split—but all of them got sent to another console
2 Nov 2017
https://arstechnica.com/information...-collision-ultimately-caused-by-ui-confusion/
Reviews show major breakdowns in leadership, training, and basic protocols are indicative of serious systemic issues.
1 Nov 2017
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...mning-new-reports-on-its-destroyer-collisions
After months of investigating the circumstances relating to two separate collisions between the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers USS Fitzgerald and USS John S. McCain and merchant ships in the Pacific Ocean, the U.S. Navy has determined both incidents were “preventable” and “avoidable,” blaming numerous officers and sailors for the incidents, which left a total of 17 Americans dead. The nature of accidents had initially seemed so bizarre that they quickly prompted a raft of conspiracy theories, but the official investigations reinforced subsequent reports that pointed instead to almost recklessly poor training and readiness standards and dangerously low morale.
USS McCain collision ultimately caused by UI confusion
CO ordered duties of helmsman split—but all of them got sent to another console
2 Nov 2017
https://arstechnica.com/information...-collision-ultimately-caused-by-ui-confusion/
dr wogz
Fly caster
WOW..
(interesting water line on the J McCain too..)
(interesting water line on the J McCain too..)
boatgeek
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There's a lot to answer for in both of those documents. It's hard for me to imagine sending someone to sea without teaching them how to transfer steering and control between different stations.
To answer a prior question, there are lots of merchant ship collisions every year. There's a nice writeup here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2713/23.html&usg=AOvVaw1A7Wkdlns-UYAOZjXUOdmS) for EU flag or in EU waters only. That shows ~200 serious collisions in 2014. There's lots of disaster pictures as well if you're into that kind of thing.
To answer a prior question, there are lots of merchant ship collisions every year. There's a nice writeup here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2713/23.html&usg=AOvVaw1A7Wkdlns-UYAOZjXUOdmS) for EU flag or in EU waters only. That shows ~200 serious collisions in 2014. There's lots of disaster pictures as well if you're into that kind of thing.
dr wogz
Fly caster
This reminds me of dream event, when I win a kazillion-bazillion dollars... Super tanker smash up derby.. (no, get old decommissioned ones, and fill them with sea water!)
I'm intrigued by the logistics of piloting a HUGE vessel that takes miles to turn and to stop, and try to ram into each other. Get 10 of them, in a 100 x 100 mile square part of the sea.. Would they be planned rammings, or just shear luck.. Would any actually hit each other?! A bit of chess on a giant scale, the strategy in planning the moves & course corrections...
I'm intrigued by the logistics of piloting a HUGE vessel that takes miles to turn and to stop, and try to ram into each other. Get 10 of them, in a 100 x 100 mile square part of the sea.. Would they be planned rammings, or just shear luck.. Would any actually hit each other?! A bit of chess on a giant scale, the strategy in planning the moves & course corrections...
My client called me to rent her townhouse, they are PCSing to Japan, the hubby will take command of the McCain.
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