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  1. #1
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
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    44

    Full Scale V-2 Rocket Build

    First i would just like to point a couple key factors that make this build possible. I am a 13 average kid... You may be asking yourself, well how does that even work if your going to build the largest model rocket on earth? Wont you need a level 3! The answer is simple... My dad has a level 3 that i cant use anymore. Why? We moved away for his new promotion. We together are gonna build the largest rocket "A school has ever built!".I thought you were trying to build a full scale v-2? I was and then i got alot of criticism over it. I only now understand that it isnt "feasible" and would require 20-25 thousand dollars!Well then whats next? We are currently looking at all possible options but for now, a fiberglass full scale Nike Smoke is much more In reach.




    Full Scale Nike Smoke


    This is so much more"feasible" but is still quite a design challenge. The original Nike smoke was 16.5 inches in diameter, Not terrible, defiantly not
    easy
    As well. I dont know the high as im trying to decipher a old schematic of the rocket.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now i can afford this all on my own just to prove im not "taking advantage"of nice people. But you can help me out by doing something thats free! Can anyone tell me the exact dimensions of the Nike Smoke. I just upscale a 4" nike smoke and changed the motor mount to 98mm. Where do i find fiberglass tubing that large? http://www.fiberglasstubingsupply.com/ has some tubes that are so close to the outer diameter. I will call them and ask if they can make that .5 in more. Dual deployment (obviously) and thinking about Kate from multitronix. Does anyone have experience using the MARSA 54L? I plan using that in a redundant setup. The nose cone i can hand lay thats not hard. The fins i can probably get custom done by pml. I am looking at 2-4 thousand dollars. Much Much more affordable!
    As far as time goes....I am expecting to be done 7-9 months of solid work after school. I will be using west coast for everything except the fillets. The engine will most likely be A M or a O

    There are some bumps along the way that i can handle right now... My level 1 is coming next week Saturday, possibly a level 2 as well. This is just a quick cert just to get us started. If anyone has suggestion as for construction please tell me



  2. #2
    Join Date
    18th November 2014
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    Somewhere in Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13_Year_old_Rocket_guru View Post
    First i would just like to point a couple key factors that make this build possible. I am a 13 average kid... You may be asking yourself, well how does that even work if your going to build the largest model rocket on earth? Wont you need a level 3! The answer is simple... No. My dad will be the primary certification holder, making this whole thing possible. Another point is, Where Are we Going to Build It? That answer inst as simple as it seems. At my school they have a garage, if i can get administrative approval we can build everything down there. Its not as big as i would like so there is a plan B. I have been looking at some small warehouses but there is another problem. It doesn't have security. I need to be 100% sure that no one touches this thing without my approval and latex gloves. So most likely the garage is medium sized and am sure it is "Achievable" in that space. Now we can get on with the plan (It is most likely going to change but you will get the hang of it.)





    Step 1.) Design.

    1. Me and MARS are collaborating on this part. MARS is the group of people who built the same exact rocket down in Australia. They are currently filling out a google docs forum i sent them as to get some of the hard design aspects about it out of the way (Dimensions of the 1 fin,Dimensions of the 3 different parts, main body tube, bowtail, nosecone) What construction methods did they use, etc We estimate that we will be done this stage by max December.



    Step 2.) Get funds for materials.
    2. Instead of asking for a iPad or something for Christmas i am gonna ask for materials. if the rocket is under 3-5 thousand i should be able to get it during Christmas. If anyone would like to donate or sponsor the build,pm me.


    Step 3.)Construction
    3. I will have a group of anywhere between 10-30 kids in my grade for this project. the 30 will be divided in to 3 groups. Ground support will be in charge of running simulations for altitude, max speed,etc. They will also be in charge of inspecting the launch area 2 days before the launch, And putting down 4 "5 by 5 nomex blankets" to ensure the fire goes where its supposed too... Construction will be supervised by me (i have built many large scale kits, never this scale though" and 1-2 teachers. these stationsrotateevery 3 months. it is estimated that it will be finished by the beginning of may. The engine will be a 152mm "o" hybrid motor. It is much more advanced and will provide a lesson on cryogenics. p.s i will be the manager of this whole thing and will be providing the bulk of the rocket materials.


    Step 4.)Launch
    4. We will have to register our field as a Nar club well as request authorization to launch a class 2 rocket from the FAA and DOT. if all goes well the launch will happen somewhere between the end of may, and mid July....

    Thats a rough draft of the plan... Its still has a lot of work to go through but i have faith.
    Wow, what an idea. Not sure how good of an idea it is, but then again, I've had some of these same ideas, trying to launch the biggest motor, and rocket. (Some other TRF members can agree on that.)
    A lot to think about here; money, time, space, and lots more. For months my brother & I have wanted to build a full scale WAC Corporal, but I have realized that is way to big of a project. and that would fly on M or N motors, much smaller than your project.

    I have a question, what's the biggest motor you've ever flown? And how long have you been flying rockets??


    Thanks,

    Andrew - 14 year old rocketeer who loves to watch and fly model rockets all year long!!!
    2018 - 663.62 Ns _ Biggest motor, AT H115DM, (CATO on pad), highest flight around 3,500' - TRA Member #17056 - NAR Member #94787
    Owner, Andrew's Rocketry Shop - andrewsrocketryshop.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,369
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  4. #4
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    I have flown ever since i was 7, when i was 9 i got into high power. The biggest motor was a M2400 and this motor will be a o hybrid

  5. #5
    Join Date
    27th January 2010
    Location
    in isolated northern voids of the continental US
    Posts
    2,081
    I swear I keep seeing ghosts of my past 13 year old self on here...

    Monty Liu
    NAR #103703 ASTRE/CRMRC
    Level One - "Cooler Spool" 9/16/17

  6. #6
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
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    44
    I have flown ever since i was 7, when i was 9 i got into high power. The biggest motor was a M2400 and this motor will be a o hybrid

  7. #7
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
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    44
    LOL

  8. #8
    Join Date
    26th November 2014
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    30
    Some things to consider...

    The engine will be a 152mm "o" hybrid motor. It is much more advanced and will provide a lesson on cryogenics.
    This would be really neat to see. Little curious on the propellants. Something like https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/259338?

    ...if the rocket is under 3-5 thousand...
    Wildman has an 152mm O reload for around $3100. I'm haven't personally done hybrids but I do know plumbing for larger rockets get expensive. (My team got a bill for +$10,000 for a few valves)

    I will have a group of anywhere between 10-30 kids in my grade for this project.
    Have they built rockets before? What is your plan on training and PPE?

    We will have to register our field as a Nar club...
    You may want to just travel to a field. It would save some hassle.

    I have been looking at some small warehouses but there is another problem
    That could potentially by +$1000 a month just for rent.

    I need to be 100% sure that no one touches this thing without my approval and latex gloves.
    Some people are allergic to latex. You will have to trust your team to build without you there.

    You are obviously very into rockets and getting a club started at your school. I would suggest you and your team build a smaller kit together first. Group builds are a lot different that individual or family builds. For my college club, we get all the new members to build LOC Hi-Tech kits before they move onto bigger projects. Why? Not only is it fun but it gets everyone familiar with basics of rockets and construction techniques. Then once you get the group that is really interested, move on with plans for a bigger project.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    Although you might not believe the idea, its going to happen, i would love to see some positive replies tho... We are also using advanced construction methods to keep the wait down whil making the Construction more easy for my age.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockets View Post
    Wow, what an idea. Not sure how good of an idea it is, but then again, I've had some of these same ideas, trying to launch the biggest motor, and rocket. (Some other TRF members can agree on that.)
    A lot to think about here; money, time, space, and lots more. For months my brother & I have wanted to build a full scale WAC Corporal, but I have realized that is way to big of a project. and that would fly on M or N motors, much smaller than your project.

    I have a question, what's the biggest motor you've ever flown? And how long have you been flying rockets??


    Thanks,

  10. #10
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,369
    You'll also run into the issue that NAR doesn't allow research motors...
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  11. #11
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Savannnah, Ga
    Posts
    7,931
    Don't forget another 5-6,000.00 for ground support...custom pad-steel-crane to erect rocket.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Transportation.....3 semi's to haul the 3 sections of rocket. a
    Among a few extra's...Good Luck.

    I was there and saw the entire show...arrival....building.....placement on pad...launch ....recovery & clean-up.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The launch pad was amazing.. 4in steel pipe though center of rocket on PVC lugs. Pad circumference around 35 ft.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You have much to accomplish and money to build it.

    Construction was aluminum tubing filled in with foam insulation & covered with vinyl kitchen shelf wrap...[about 4,000.00 with of that alone if memory serves.] with fiberglass fin cuffs.

    You will need a VERY tall building to erect inside, isn't it 33 ft. tall. + however tall your crane or erection equipment is.
    Last edited by blackjack2564; 11th August 2017 at 12:17 AM.
    Jim Hendricksen
    L-3 Tripoli 9693
    [ICBM, Orangeburg,SC R.I.P.] - QCRS ,Princeton ILL - MDRA , Price Maryland - Woosh, Bong Wisconsin- ROCC, Charlotte NC , ICBM Camden SC
    "Made" member of Chicago & Carolina Rocket Mafia
    Rocketry...........an exact science.......but not exactly !!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    We have done rocketry for 2 years including hp. I think its time to step it up a notch. All applicants to the construction team will have to fill out a application as well as send a physical. Its mandatory now. Thank you for reminding me that people are allergic. All construction team are required to use Gloves, goggles and wear a poncho at all times No flip flops. Also the kids will have to take another mandatory course if they would like to weld. The big welding will be done probably by me, I have practiced welding for 2 years with a mig welder, and am pretty good at it. Training wise i think were gonna build a 1/4 model first for a training type deal. Then with all the things we learned, we can built the full scale.The rocket motor is being given to us

  13. #13
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    This isnt a research motor? Contrail offers a 152mm o motor. Perfect for decent altitude and realistic launch. Were not going for altitude

  14. #14
    Join Date
    18th March 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,829
    I believe a full scale V2 is 46' tall, if memory serves.

    On one hand I appreciate your desire to do this. On the other hand, I think you are in way over your head.

    The scale of this project is very large. Listen to what Jim is saying. A rocket of this size when all told will probably cost considerably more than $20000. You could spend half of that on motor considering you need custom machining, test firings etc. multiple semi trucks and cranes are not cheap either.

    Do yourself a favor. Start smaller- something obtainable. This is a nice idea, but problematic on many levels.
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
    Editor of http://www.thrustcurve.org/
    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  15. #15
    Join Date
    18th March 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,829
    I see you are thinking Contrail. Ok, the hardware is $2500. GSE is going to be a few hundred. Nitrous not a lot.

    I have not heard much of Contrail. Who deals them? The website has not been updated in a long time?
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
    Editor of http://www.thrustcurve.org/
    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  16. #16
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    Its final were doing this project... But your response is being considered , we might built a 1/4 model and work from there

  17. #17
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    15th May 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13_Year_old_Rocket_guru View Post
    This isnt a research motor? Contrail offers a 152mm o motor. Perfect for decent altitude and realistic launch. Were not going for altitude
    Thought they had all expired, but just looked and it's still there on the combined list. I am incorrect.


    Now, is there anywhere you can still purchase one?
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  18. #18
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
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    44
    Just talked to them recently and they said its good to go? You are incorrect but you can purchase one through there website

  19. #19
    Join Date
    27th July 2014
    Location
    south beloit, IL
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    Where are you planning on launching this (assuming it gets built). You'll need some space to launch an O motor.
    NAR# 99285
    Tripoli# 16283
    L1- 4/26/2015 Madcow Cowabunga- H123SK
    L2- 11/1/2015 Wildman Darkstar 2.6- J355RL
    L3- 11/3/2017 Wildman V2 6" - M1780NT
    Woosh
    QCRS

  20. #20
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
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    2,369
    O6300. The aussie's are pretty good at what they do, and they managed to keep the weight of the rocket to 617 pounds. impressively light.
    Last edited by DavidMcCann; 11th August 2017 at 01:27 AM.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  21. #21
    Join Date
    27th July 2014
    Location
    south beloit, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    I'd reconsider motors.
    I'd reconsider the project
    NAR# 99285
    Tripoli# 16283
    L1- 4/26/2015 Madcow Cowabunga- H123SK
    L2- 11/1/2015 Wildman Darkstar 2.6- J355RL
    L3- 11/3/2017 Wildman V2 6" - M1780NT
    Woosh
    QCRS

  22. #22
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
    Posts
    44
    Guys i said this 1,000 times im only gonna say it one more time to you djs (or little princess) this project is happining. I just wanted to share the steps were gonna take.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    18th November 2014
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    Somewhere in Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by djs View Post
    I'd reconsider the project
    +1.

    Thanks,
    Andrew - 14 year old rocketeer who loves to watch and fly model rockets all year long!!!
    2018 - 663.62 Ns _ Biggest motor, AT H115DM, (CATO on pad), highest flight around 3,500' - TRA Member #17056 - NAR Member #94787
    Owner, Andrew's Rocketry Shop - andrewsrocketryshop.blogspot.com

  24. #24
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
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    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by 13_Year_old_Rocket_guru View Post
    Guys i said this 1,000 times im only gonna say it one more time to you djs (or little princess) this project is happining. I just wanted to share the steps were gonna take.
    Since you've decided to be rude, I'll open up a little secret. this project is unlikely at best, and most likely not possible.





    the aussies used an O25,000 and it barely lifted it off the pad...

    Last edited by DavidMcCann; 11th August 2017 at 01:30 AM.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  25. #25
    Join Date
    18th November 2014
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    Somewhere in Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    Since you've decided to be rude, I'll open up a little secret.


    Math says your plan isn't happening. All the pixie dust in the world isn't going to help you.

    .9:1 thrust to weight. This = a nice pretty roman candle that won't leave the pad.


    I tried being nice, understanding and present a nice, logical assessment. But you showed your age and now you'll be treated like a child here.
    Yes, very true; The crew at TDU used a O25K, so imagine a much lower thrust, (like probably 20K Ns lower than a O25K) So, it'll just sit on the pad, the motor will burn out, and the parachute will pop out.
    I'm the same age as you, and I don't even think this is even a good idea at all. I like to dream like you all the time, but this is reality.

    Thanks,
    Andrew - 14 year old rocketeer who loves to watch and fly model rockets all year long!!!
    2018 - 663.62 Ns _ Biggest motor, AT H115DM, (CATO on pad), highest flight around 3,500' - TRA Member #17056 - NAR Member #94787
    Owner, Andrew's Rocketry Shop - andrewsrocketryshop.blogspot.com

  26. #26
    Join Date
    23rd January 2009
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    New York
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    5,470
    Initial peak thrust is 2800lbs, then the motor is very regressive, very quickly. I'd suggest capping the acceptable weight of the rocket at 600 lbs, including motor and nitrous. Motor is 62 lbs, so your Rocket needs to be less than 550 lbs.

    That would be hard to accomplish for Aerospace professionals with access to high end materials.
    Dan Patell
    TRA 10904 L3

  27. #27
    Join Date
    10th July 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,468
    I did the electronics and deployment integration on that project. Good fun! Lots of work (until you try it you will have no idea ) by a lot of people.

    SOME FACTS
    Project duration was over two years.

    Cost was AUD$16k, but there were a lot of things donated along the way.

    Logistics was a huge challenge

    Final erection and flight prep took 2.5 days

    Final mass was 400kg

    Motor was O25000 by CTI. Burn time 1.25s.

    Altitude was 624'

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    TRA 13430, Level 3

    "Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

  28. #28
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockets View Post
    Yes, very true; The crew at TDU used a O25K, so imagine a much lower thrust, (like probably 20K Ns lower than a O25K) So, it'll just sit on the pad, the motor will burn out, and the parachute will pop out.
    I'm the same age as you, and I do
    I Fat fingered the sim, it's actually closer to 4.6:1, which... would possibly fly if they keep it to under 600 pounds...but as dan mentioned... that will be very difficult.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  29. #29
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
    Posts
    700
    Pretty sure this guy, kid forum members "rockets", "TRFfan", who knows who else and one other old one I can't remember that allegedly signed a new account due to harassment is the same go-nowhere thread starting troll (older guy, maybe mid-30's, mother-in-law basement dweller) who has nothing better to do than kick off threads with "Hi, I'm only 8 years old and I'm starting a full scale ICBM build" and then disappear. Glad it gets the rest of you excited though.
    Last edited by CORZERO; 11th August 2017 at 01:46 AM.


  30. #30
    Join Date
    9th August 2017
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    44
    Well just have to see


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