Igniting with a match?

[Aaronius31]

Ok so me and my friend don't have a working launch controller right now, so I was wondering if it is possible to ignite a motor with a regular ole match used to make fires.

If you know how can you please explain?

Thanks

[SCE to AUX]

Possible? Sure. That's how it used to be done in the early years of the hobby. A short piece of visco fuse stuffed into the nozzle.

Doing so today is a violation of the NAR safety code, and NFPA regs. Electrical ignition from a distance is one of the key features that separates model rocketry from fireworks in the eyes of the law.

From a practical viewpoint, imagine that you have just lit the fuse, then a gust of wind kicks up, flipping the pad and rocket over, so it points toward a bunch of spectators.

The ability to abort a launch at any point up to motor ignition is why we use electrical controls nowadays.

[JRThro]

No.

-----------------
Model Rocket Safety Code

1. [snip]

2. [snip]

3. Ignition System. I will launch my rockets with an electrical launch system and electrical motor igniters. My launch system will have a safety interlock in series with the launch switch, and will use a launch switch that returns to the "off" position when released.

[snip]
-----------------

[JCL]

You can't light a rocket safely with a match.

You would at least need to buy or make a fuse.

If you can buy or make a fuse, you can buy or make a reasonably safe launch controller.

A launch controller is very simple.

It needs a source of 6 or more volts. A battery holder for 4-8 AA/C/D cells works. As does a 6 volt lantern battery, motorcycle battery, car battery, or car booster battery.

It requires 15-30 feets of wire like speaker wire, extension cord wire or similar stranded wire. Thicker is better to a point, but even scavenged cat 5 (ethernet cable) or telephone wire would probably work.

With those two things you could make a launch controller that is much safer than a match. Adding some switches and micro clips make things easier and safer.


Where are you located? I'm not anywhere near you, but a more local person might have a spare launch controller.

Joe Larkin

[5x7]

Does anyone else get a bad feeling about this?

[Aaronius31]

Ok just wondering, don't worry I'm not going to try it. Iwas just wondering if it could be done. But yah don't worry I don't even know where to buy visco or whatever. I didn't say I was going to try it, at least I don't think I did. Plus it's illegal anyway, and I'm a good kid so I wouldn't even mess with it. I now know it's illegal and not safe whatsoever, so I will never try it.

[troj]

There are lots of places you can find instructions and parts lists to make a proper, safe, controller.

Much easier and safer to do that than to try to lay your hands on fuse.

-Kevin

[Aaronius31]

Ok guys cause I was just wondering cause I saw someone on YouTube do it and have never heard of lighting with a match at all. And don't worry I am not going to do it especially since it is against 50 billion codes and laws.

But yes I am now in the process of getting an Interlock with alligator clips and a 12V car battery so we'll be set.

Thanks

[daveyfire]

Ok so me and my friend don't have a working launch controller right now, so I was wondering if it is possible to ignite a motor with a regular ole match used to make fires.

Dude, please just make the drive up to MDRA for a launch and see how freaking awesome this hobby is when done properly. They are a great group of people who will be able to help you fly what you've got legally and successfully, and you'll see some really neat flights at the same time. It's worth the drive, trust me. And they should be able to quickly give you the information to keep you from needing to ask questions like this, or this, or this. A little hands on time will help you out tremendously.

[JStarStar]

You can make a perfectly safe electric controller for about $10.

15 feet zip cord/lamp cord : $4/5, unless you can find a long extension cord someone is throwing out, in which case it's free

2 battery clamps: $2.00

2 alligator "micro" clips: $2.00

1 doorbell push button: $2.00

1 6" piece of scrap wood to attach the button: free, dig it out of somebody's junk pile


Check G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" on how to put it together, it should take no more than 15 minutes with a pair of wire cutters, a small screwdriver and needle nose pliers. It will be more durable if you solder it but it will still work if you just crimp the wire connections together.

It won't be fancy but it will work.

PS, I see your latest post and it looks like you guys are on the right track. Trust me if you get an actual launch controller (they aren't really that expensive) you will be glad you did. As long as you keep the clips clean and keep your batteries charged they work fine and are a million times less of a headache.

[Rocketman248]

Dude, please just make the drive up to MDRA for a launch and see how freaking awesome this hobby is when done properly. They are a great group of people who will be able to help you fly what you've got legally and successfully, and you'll see some really neat flights at the same time. It's worth the drive, trust me. And they should be able to quickly give you the information to keep you from needing to ask questions like this, or this, or this. A little hands on time will help you out tremendously.

I agree. Come on up to Red Glare this fall. I guarantee you will be hooked after that.

[Aaronius31]

I agree. Come on up to Red Glare this fall. I guarantee you will be hooked after that.

I know I will get hooked after that and I will definitelycome out to a launch. But sadly I can no longer get in to high power since I'm sold the 54mm I65s. But I definitely want to stay at MPR to where we need no certification whatsoever.

[seanmca79]

Your 38mm reloads are all high power. They fall under the same regulations that the I65's did as far as use/sale/shipping goes.

[Micromeister]

Just to make it PERFECTLY Clear the inventors of Model Rocket motors NEVER intended them to be use with fuse. The Patent submissions in 1954 call for the motors to be ignited electrically, NOT with a match or fuse. In fact it was written into the very first Model Rocketeer volumn-1-#1 Feb. 1958 "Do's and Don't of model rocketry". That basic electrical ignition system circuit has been the Standard for launching model rockets to this day.

Lets be a little more careful about how we talk about the Early days of the hobby. Those using fuse were generally those in that infamous "basement bomber" catagory we've all heard so much about or those simply not following the instructions with the kits and motors.

While it's ture there have been some motor manufactures who's igniters were a combination of nichrome and a fuse like material they also were ALWAYS intended to be ignited electrically.

Some very limited use of "fuse" has always been used for ignition of upper stages but these are Special case "advanced" procedures not intended for first motion ignition.

[SCE to AUX]

Just to make it PERFECTLY Clear the inventors of Model Rocket motors NEVER intended them to be use with fuse. ...Those using fuse were generally those in that infamous "basement bomber" catagory we've all heard so much about or those simply not following the instructions with the kits and motors.

The very first commercial model rocket motor (Rock-A-Chute) came with a short length of fuse pre-installed:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/a...d=A19930476000

The instructions for this motor make no mention of lighting that fuse electrically, although they do recommend the use of a punk (or cigarette), which they deemed safer (for the rocket) than an open flame from a match:

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/images...90/balrock.pdf

Was Orville Carlisle a "Basement Bomber"? Hey, he also refers to the nosecone as a "warhead"....

[Micromeister]

The very first commercial model rocket motor (Rock-A-Chute) came with a short length of fuse pre-installed:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/a...d=A19930476000

The instructions for this motor make no mention of lighting that fuse electrically, although they do recommend the use of a punk (or cigarette), which they deemed safer (for the rocket) than an open flame from a match:

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/images...90/balrock.pdf

Was Orville Carlisle a "Basement Bomber"? Hey, he also refers to the nosecone as a "warhead"....

What you missed the part about the motor pictured was part of the "development" of the model rocket motor...The patent documents clearly call for ignition by electrical means. The instructions I read on the rock-a-chute had no mention of wick, fuse or lighting with anything other then electrically. the referenced insturctions most likely were BEFORE the kits and motors were licenced to be made?
NO Orville wasn't a BB is was a fireworks manufacturer.... but this is the point He and G. Harry Stine began their work with NFPA and DOT. Removing the igniter from the motor, making it a seperate piece and making the ignition source remote and electric began our 52 year divergence from the Fireworks community making our Hobby viable to the powers that needed to give their blesssing for mass production and distribution of Model Rocket motors.

[stardust]

A hobby store in Denver is selling visco fuse right along side bp and ap motors.

Most around here do not seem too concerned...I figure it's only a matter of time and something will happen to give model Rocketry a bit of a black eye...

[quickburst]

lighting a black powder motor with a match would most likely result in a burned finger, mental note to self: Bad Idea.

Lighting a Composite motor most likely would result in a CATO, since the motor would be lit from the bottom rather than the top of the grains as it was designed. Followed by a burned finger and possibly burns in other areas.

i think you got the drift. matches and rocket motors are not a good combination and really a bad idea.

Many moons ago Visco and therma lite fuse was commonly used to light model rocket motors, both off the ground and in the air. today electrical methods are better suited and much safer for the user.

[KennB]

We always have matches around at our launches as a vital back-up; you never know when Jim Flis will misplace his cigarette lighter.

Other than that, matches don't have any place at a launch, IMHO.

[MarkII]

All right, all right. Aaronius31 explained that his question was a hypothetical, nothing more. The very valid safety, and Safety Code, issues have all been thoroughly covered. While I completely agree with all that has been said, I will note that back in the '60s we used Jetex wick (visco fuse) a few times as back up when the batteries in my Electro-Launch were just too weak to fire the motor. I will add that I was never comfortable with it, but I gave in on those occasions and allowed my friend to use the fuse that he always brought with him after we had made several failed ignition attempts. My EL pad was all we had at the time. It was a capable little pad, and I sure wish that I still had it, but a combination of factors that existed then but which aren't present any longer sometimes caused it to have poor ignition performance. Estes igniters at the time consisted of just simple straight lengths of nichrome wire that were painted in the middle with a very thin coating of a not very energetic pyrogen. When we ran out of them, which was often, we substituted igniters made from just bare nichrome. It required a lot of amps from the power supply to get those igniters to fire our black powder motors. But in 1967, alkaline batteries were still 5 years in the future. The 6 volt Electro-Launch was meant to be used with photoflash batteries, a type of high energy carbon zinc battery, but they were prohibitively expensive for a 13 year old making $2 a week mowing lawns. So I used conventional carbon zinc flashlight batteries, which were only good for about 3 firings. I remember having to hold the button down for at least 20 seconds, and often for a minute or more, before the igniter heated up enough to light the motor, and sometimes it just wouldn't go. We would never have that situation today.

The first time that I launched a rocket with my brand-new Alpha III Launch Set in 2004, I was absolutely floored. The motor ignited instantly! I had never seen that before, and it caught me totally by surprise! Many, many launches later, I still get a big kick out of it.

[WillMarchant]

Come fly with us at NOVAAR on Saturday. The weather looks nice. And you don't have to worry about launch pads and electrical launch systems...

[ghrocketman]

All through the 80's a buddy of mine and I switched to FUSE due to being sick of the relatively high cost of igniters especially when a misfire occurred.
A SAFE length of Visco fuse was about 10% the cost of a "solar" igniter.
We almost ALWAYS launched on private property as NON members of NAR so the "NAR safety code" was a NON ISSUE for us, PERIOD.
Once our 8th grade Science teacher found out from us at a launch what we were doing, he did NOT chastise us, he actually adopted 4" of Visco fuse as STANDARD procedure for ignition of model rockets during the rocketry unit of his science class as it was a PERFECTLY LEGAL way to reduce costs in our area.
Use of fuse makes Model Rockets NO MORE fireworks than ANYTHING else. That arguement is PURE BUNK.
That being said, I switched LONG ago back to electrical ignition as I like the precise control of ignition it allows.

[MarkII]

GH mentions it above and so did I: among the many advantages of electric ignition is that you get to fire the motor when you want, instantly, at the push of a button. Yes, with practice you can learn to time the ignition pretty accurately with a burning fuse, but you can't pause it while your friend aims his camera or abort it at the last second if a plane suddenly appears overhead or the wind kicks up. For a whole host of reasons, electric ignition has it all over fuse ignition, regardless of where you stand regarding the appropriateness of the latter. That's why professional pyrotechnicians use electrical ignition in the fireworks displays and theatrical special effects that they set up and fire. These days, anyone who uses fuses to ignite black powder model rocket motors self-identifies as a clueless meathead punk. If you find yourself without a working electrical launch controller, get it fixed, obtain another one, or cancel the launch. There's no excuse for not using electrical ignition in the present era.

[quickburst]

All through the 80's a buddy of mine and I switched to FUSE due to being sick of the relatively high cost of igniters especially when a misfire occurred.
A SAFE length of Visco fuse was about 10% the cost of a "solar" igniter.
We almost ALWAYS launched on private property as NON members of NAR so the "NAR safety code" was a NON ISSUE for us, PERIOD.
Once our 8th grade Science teacher found out from us at a launch what we were doing, he did NOT chastise us, he actually adopted 4" of Visco fuse as STANDARD procedure for ignition of model rockets during the rocketry unit of his science class as it was a PERFECTLY LEGAL way to reduce costs in our area.
Use of fuse makes Model Rockets NO MORE fireworks than ANYTHING else. That arguement is PURE BUNK.
That being said, I switched LONG ago back to electrical ignition as I like the precise control of ignition it allows.

I couldn't agree more.

[1974_Trident]

Prior posters have articulated my own experience on the matter so I need not go into too much detail other than it is safe to ignite black powder motors with fuse if done properly. When I was a kid that is how I launched most of my rockets. I did all I could to steer my bicycle with one hand and carry a rocket or two in the other while my pockets were stuffed with engines and wadding. I had no place to carry a launch controller and automotive battery but a five foot length of green fuse bought at the local gun shop fit nicely in one of my socks and I usually got a dozen or so launches out of such a length.

Remember, NAR "Safety Code" is a nice guideline to follow to help maintain the perception of our hobby to those not involved but this guideline is just that and does not bear the weight of law.

Today I would NEVER consider using a fuse to ignite any of mine or my kids' rockets. I have the resources to transport all of my launch gear any where I need to go.

By the way, here is my home built launcher.

[WillMarchant]

Remember, NAR "Safety Code" is a nice guideline to follow to help maintain the perception of our hobby to those not involved but this guideline is just that and does not bear the weight of law.

The NAR safety code is derived from the NFPA rules which have been adopted as law in most states. Same for the Tripoli safety code.

[JStarStar]

Yeah, with Beavis and Butt-head dingbats all over Youtube and governmental agencies just itching to slap more restrictions on rocketry, let's go ahead and tell kids it's just fine to launch with fuses. You betcha.

Probably nothing really wrong with loading payload sections with gasoline or black powder either.

[Reinhard]

When you buy Weco (formerly Sachsen Feuerwerk) motors in Europe, you get a package without electrical ignitors. Instead of them, a piece of fuse is included for every motor.

Reinhard

[MarkII]

Of course black powder motors can be ignited with fuses; there is no question about that. And if, like GH described, you are conducting a private launch on private land, it is very unlikely that anyone is going to stop you just because you are using fuses. But if you are a member of NAR, for instance, you can forget about insurance coverage. I haven't used fuses in over 40 years because I feel that it's just a much cruder, less safe and less exact way to launch a rocket. My preference, that's all. Plus, I like to follow the MRSC. I was a bit harsher about this in my previous post, but really, electrical launch controllers are so inexpensive, so readily available and so reliable now (in contrast to my experience in the early days) that I don't see any reason not to use them. (I love that instant ignition at the press of a button.)

Reinhard: is fuse ignition commonly done in model rocketry in Europe, then?

[davel]

All through the 80's a buddy of mine and I switched to FUSE due to being sick of the relatively high cost of igniters

We just used bare nichrome wire. I don't remember 3" of nichrome being all that expensive.