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  1. #1
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    98/17500 or Bigger Case

    Hi all, I'm looking for a 98/17,500, case only. Compatible with Loki hardware. I would be open to new or used depending on price. Please email me at daniel.boudwin@bfblaw.com if you have anything to offer. Thanks!

    Last edited by DannyB; 1st December 2017 at 08:25 PM.
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
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    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  2. #2
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    I would take anything larger than a 48"/17500 as well, as the updated title indicates. Thanks!

    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  3. #3
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    AMW has this, although I don't know what it's compatible with:

    http://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?op...category_id=14
    NAR# 99285
    Tripoli# 16283
    L1- 4/26/2015 Madcow Cowabunga- H123SK
    L2- 11/1/2015 Wildman Darkstar 2.6- J355RL
    L3- 11/3/2017 Wildman V2 6" - M1780NT
    Woosh
    QCRS

  4. #4
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    Bump bump! Still looking...can only find new ones at AMW and $450 is above my budget for a case. Thanks!
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Bump bump! Still looking...can only find new ones at AMW and $450 is above my budget for a case. Thanks!
    Contact Mike Fisher . He will make anything you want .

    Eric
    You must always push your limits , because if you never fail , you will never succeed .

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3stoogesrocketry View Post
    Contact Mike Fisher . He will make anything you want .

    Eric
    ^^^
    Clayton Birchenough
    L3
    NAR #100335
    Tripoli #15887

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3stoogesrocketry View Post
    Contact Mike Fisher . He will make anything you want .

    Eric
    Note: Won't work for an L3 project but fine for Research. I'm going from the op's tagline although one can work for others or plan for the future. Kurt

  8. #8
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    Thanks all for the help and pointers. I emailed Mike, hopefully he can make it, I’ve heard that he can make anything from more people than I can count. I won’t be using ex for my cert, I only wanted Loki compatible for resale purposes, as that day will eventually come. I don’t really care all that much if it can handle Loki reloads, just a nice plus, I’ll only be using it for ex.
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  9. #9
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    You could just take an old water heater and stick a nozzle on it?
    NAR# 99285
    Tripoli# 16283
    L1- 4/26/2015 Madcow Cowabunga- H123SK
    L2- 11/1/2015 Wildman Darkstar 2.6- J355RL
    L3- 11/3/2017 Wildman V2 6" - M1780NT
    Woosh
    QCRS

  10. #10
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    Why have something like that made and plan on selling it? That is a case you really are not going to grow out of.


    Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
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    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  11. #11
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    Not sure if Loki still makes 98 loads, I thought he had one or two 12,500 loads at one time
    John Haught L3
    Prefect Tripoli Pittsburgh

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkbait View Post
    Not sure if Loki still makes 98 loads, I thought he had one or two 12,500 loads at one time
    Can still order the N-3800-LW for the 98-12500, but it's a custom order and no hardware in production at this time.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I wonder why I even care about it being compatible, I really don’t, it was just a minor plus that I shouldn’t have even mentioned. I here ya that I’ll never sell the case, but if I exit the hobby, which everyone seems to do (unless I keep my sons interested) it’ll eventually be sold. I could care less about the value 30 years from now though, so just forget I even mentioned compatibility. Loki seems to be pretty much done with everything 98mm. I had to work with Scott just to get some liner sets ordered (then I discovered ARR ). Scott tells me AMW cases are 3.55 and his are 3.50id and that standard hardware won’t work. Seems like a stretch to me over 0.05”, any thoughts?
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Yeah, I wonder why I even care about it being compatible, I really don’t, it was just a minor plus that I shouldn’t have even mentioned. I here ya that I’ll never sell the case, but if I exit the hobby, which everyone seems to do (unless I keep my sons interested) it’ll eventually be sold. I could care less about the value 30 years from now though, so just forget I even mentioned compatibility. Loki seems to be pretty much done with everything 98mm. I had to work with Scott just to get some liner sets ordered (then I discovered ARR ). Scott tells me AMW cases are 3.55 and his are 3.50id and that standard hardware won’t work. Seems like a stretch to me over 0.05”, any thoughts?
    50 thou is a huge difference. Closures are not compatible. AMW is different than CTI&AT (which are the same in 98mm). And general EX cases are standard tubing with a 3.50" ID. It is much easer to get liner/casting sets for 3.50" ID.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
    My LinkedIn Profile

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    50 thou is a huge difference. Closures are not compatible. AMW is different than CTI&AT (which are the same in 98mm). And general EX cases are standard tubing with a 3.50" ID. It is much easer to get liner/casting sets for 3.50" ID.
    I will agree with you on incompatible hardware on this one John
    John Haught L3
    Prefect Tripoli Pittsburgh

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    50 thou is a huge difference. Closures are not compatible. AMW is different than CTI&AT (which are the same in 98mm). And general EX cases are standard tubing with a 3.50" ID. It is much easer to get liner/casting sets for 3.50" ID.
    So I spent the past couple days in sorrow after reading your message John D, and then having it backed up by John H. Two heavy hitters say no, so that’s that as far as I’m concerned, I know you guys know your stuff. Thank you both for the definitive answer.
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  17. #17
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    Ok I’m at the end of all options. AMW was my only option for vendors but they won’t work. I’ve spoken to every vendor I know and can’t find one. I emailed Mike Fischer but haven’t heard back (I’m hoping it’s bc he’s busy with holiday stuff). Any help locating one would be very much appreciated, I’ll need it for a February launch, maybe even January. Have these always been this hard to find? Will they start showing up again? Thanks for any pointers!
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Ok Iím at the end of all options. AMW was my only option for vendors but they wonít work. Iíve spoken to every vendor I know and canít find one. I emailed Mike Fischer but havenít heard back (Iím hoping itís bc heís busy with holiday stuff). Any help locating one would be very much appreciated, Iíll need it for a February launch, maybe even January. Have these always been this hard to find? Will they start showing up again? Thanks for any pointers!
    Try www.the-motorman.net

    Harry is a great guy and he has Gorilla 98/17500 complete motors, case, forward, washer, & nozzle
    He may also be able to hook you up with liner sets. The Gorilla hardware has the same dimensions as AMW, so if Harry can't get you liner sets send me a PM

    If he can't
    John Haught L3
    Prefect Tripoli Pittsburgh

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkbait View Post
    Try www.the-motorman.net

    Harry is a great guy and he has Gorilla 98/17500 complete motors, case, forward, washer, & nozzle
    He may also be able to hook you up with liner sets. The Gorilla hardware has the same dimensions as AMW, so if Harry can't get you liner sets send me a PM
    The Gorrila 98mm is not the same as AMW 98mm. I talked to Jim Harris about getting liners and they do not fit AMW 3.55" ID. They are 3.50" ID (the original old AMW/Kosdon East size). I have an email somewhere from Jim with actual dimensions. But, this is good news because the 3.50"-compatible liners are easier to find. And Harry Spears, the Motorman, is definitely a great guy.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    The Gorrila 98mm is not the same as AMW 98mm. I talked to Jim Harris about getting liners and they do not fit AMW 3.55" ID. They are 3.50" ID (the original old AMW/Kosdon East size). I have an email somewhere from Jim with actual dimensions. But, this is good news because the 3.50"-compatible liners are easier to find. And Harry Spears, the Motorman, is definitely a great guy.
    Yes John, should have stated "classic" AMW not the new version
    Not sure if Harry has any liner sets or not from Jim, but you are correct, Danny can also get them from ARR or Loki or me if not.

    One more shot Danny may be Mostly Missiles, they had 98's but not sure if John B is still producing anything.
    John Haught L3
    Prefect Tripoli Pittsburgh

  21. #21
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    Ahhh, great to wake up knowing I didn’t hit a dead end. Thank you so much John and John! I’ll put a call into both today. Nice to see suppliers that I never heard of too, they’ve got some cool stuff!
    -Dan


    Daniel B. Boudwin
    L2 TRA
    L3 Expected ...
    MDRA/METRA/BARC/anywhere I'm invited
    I love drafting rocketry based patents

    All of my posts are from my cell, please do not pick apart grammar or auto corrects unless it's relevant to the discussion.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkbait View Post
    Yes John, should have stated "classic" AMW not the new version
    Not sure if Harry has any liner sets or not from Jim, but you are correct, Danny can also get them from ARR or Loki or me if not.
    The original Kosdon East AMW case should be considered old and obsolete. The standard AMW dimensions (3.55" ID) have been around much longer and any remaining loads people may have would fit that case size. So, it is probably best to refer to AMW-compatible as the larger ID hardware and liners. Gorilla, Loki, and research hardware is typically all compatible as 3.50" ID.

    The 98mm AMW 3.55" ID tubing, though, is by far the highest quality. It is 1/2-tolerance spec'd DOM tubing bought as custom mill run (back in the day). I have some raw tubing that I bought from Paul Robinson in 2007 and I've made bolt-on closure motors from it. Perfect interior finish... I can slide a closure with an o-ring on it all the from one end of the tube to the other without binding. Paul told me that the grain designs were the same between the old and new hardware, but the extra 50 thou in ID allowed for a thicker liner and longer-lasting casings.
    -John

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    50 thou is a huge difference. Closures are not compatible. AMW is different than CTI&AT (which are the same in 98mm). And general EX cases are standard tubing with a 3.50" ID. It is much easer to get liner/casting sets for 3.50" ID.
    John,
    Do you know where to get liner/casting sets for the AMW hardware?
    Bob
    Hmmm !!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBrown View Post
    John,
    Do you know where to get liner/casting sets for the AMW hardware?
    Bob
    I'm not John, and I don't know where to get 98mm AMW-compatible liners.

    BUT

    I can say I've burned many 98mm EX loads in both the AMW 11,000 and 17,500 with "standard" Loki/Lyngdal/ARR/whoever liners without an issue. One can wrap the liners for 3.5" ID cases in something if the gap is bothersome.
    Eric Cayemberg
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Ahhh, great to wake up knowing I didn’t hit a dead end. Thank you so much John and John! I’ll put a call into both today. Nice to see suppliers that I never heard of too, they’ve got some cool stuff!
    Danny, I have an AMW 98-17,500 hardware set. Not really looking to sell, but if you get desperate....

    I have an AMW N4000 Blue Baboon left for it. That would have to be burned before I potentially sold the hardware, or be included in the sale. Can't have one without the other....

    Eric Cayemberg
    TRA 7783 L3
    TAP

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECayemberg View Post
    Danny, I have an AMW 98-17,500 hardware set. Not really looking to sell, but if you get desperate....

    I have an AMW N4000 Blue Baboon left for it. That would have to be burned before I potentially sold the hardware, or be included in the sale. Can't have one without the other....

    You should come to Ohio to burn that N4000.


    Thanks,
    Andrew - 14 year old rocketeer who loves to watch and fly model rockets all year long!!!
    2018 - 663.62 Ns _ Biggest motor, AT H115DM, (CATO on pad), highest flight around 3,500' - TRA Member #17056 - NAR Member #94787
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBrown View Post
    John,
    Do you know where to get liner/casting sets for the AMW hardware?
    Bob
    No. I have a couple sets left and wish I had more. Someone would have to invest in a minimum run with a tube manufacturer.

    If you take a standard 3.50 liner and slip it into an actual 3.55" ID AMW case (not the old 3.50" ID) it will be quite loose. A gap of 0.025" is significant. The liner will crack during the burn.

    I've built up liners with kraft paper and sodium silicate as an adhesive. It's a mess and requires sanding to clean it up.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdemar View Post
    No. I have a couple sets left and wish I had more. Someone would have to invest in a minimum run with a tube manufacturer.

    If you take a standard 3.50 liner and slip it into an actual 3.55" ID AMW case (not the old 3.50" ID) it will be quite loose. A gap of 0.025" is significant. The liner will crack during the burn.

    I've built up liners with kraft paper and sodium silicate as an adhesive. It's a mess and requires sanding to clean it up.
    I've built up the liner as well and has worked successfully a few times. It is indeed a mess to get it right!
    Hmmm !!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBrown View Post
    I've built up the liner as well and has worked successfully a few times. It is indeed a mess to get it right!
    If the paper tube guys are reading this thread, maybe we can convince them to do a run with the correct dimensions. I'd buy 10 sets.
    -John

    NAR/TRA L3
    My LinkedIn Profile

  30. #30
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    I've posted about somewhere before, and emailed the first part to Danny, but I do have convolute would LE grade liners that fit AMW 3.55" hardware. I only have 5 left on hand at this time but I can order more. The catch is they use the same casting tubes that the 3.50"ID Loki hardware uses because they have the same spec ID of 3.343". This way I can use the same casting tubes to keep the cost and storage space down.

    This means 2 things.
    1) You have a very nice .096" thick liner for much better insulation than the standard 3.50" sized liners, but...
    2) Your AMW bulkhead and nozzle won't fit quite as designed.


    However.....
    I just realized that I have a drawing of an AMW 98mm bulkhead, but it is not an original so I don't if it is 100% accurate. So this is where I need some help to confirm the dimensions. My drawing says the liner shoulder on the bulkhead is 3.231" with .100" of engagement. EDIT- Per John DeMar, the bulkhead/nozzle shoulders are 3.300".

    This means that the closures will fit inside the liner sets I have, but they will fit a little loose with a .021" gap. It's nothing a bit of masking tape around the closures won't easily fix.

    BTW, my CTI/AT liners I have and have burned with great results in both LE and X grade are .102" thick and go in a thinner walled motor cases, so .096" thick for the thicker walled AMW case should be plenty stout enough.

    The AMW LE grade is currently priced at $109/set. Only 5 are in stock at this time and I'd need place holders for 4-5 more before placing another order.

    If there are people who still want sets to fit AMW hardware as designed, you're going to need to supply me with the correct dimensional information required to get pricing along with the quantities desired. I can only tell you that if only 20 sets are ordered the casting tubes alone are going to be stupid high.

    Email scott( at ) lokiresearch dotcom for serious question/inquiries.

    Last edited by Loki Research; 1st December 2017 at 09:47 PM.
    Scott Kormeier
    President/Owner
    Loki Research LLC.
    http://www.lokiresearch.com
    TRA#7764

    "Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake."
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