WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ANTI-DRAGRACE SENTIMENT???

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I understand the sentiment that some of you feel your positions have not been taken into account when decisions are made at the Board level or at the NFPA level. So how does this sound: when there's an upcoming Safety Code revision or something at the NFPA level I will publicize it, not here, but on the Tripoli Forum. I may even include such things as changes to various other programs such as TMP. I'll read your comments and concerns and alert the board as succinctly as I can, but please remember we are officers and directors of a corporation and although this may hopefully help you feel like your voice is heard, there is a difference between directors and representatives. Our legal responsibility is to do what's best for the corporation. When we don't follow your wishes, we will try to return some kind of explanation for why we chose the direction we did.
This will be an experiment and I may end up canceling it if it becomes too burdensome either in time or stress. I cannot guarantee that any future president will continue this.
Addition: Acting immaturely, making threats, or dredging up unrelated past history will not be tolerated and could easily be the end of the experiment.

Steve Shannon
 
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jderimig said:
The peril to skydiving companies is very small as Skydivers sign their life away and is common knowledge they know the hazards of the hobby and assume the risk.

Skydiving operators liability arises from the operation of their aircraft and complying with FAA regulations allows underwriters to give them policies under that known peril environment. Do you think FAA regulations on flight and aircraft operations are light as compared to our safety code and NFPA? Self regulating my a*s.
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One might say the peril to rocketry clubs is also small from that perspective. The largest threat is damage to uninvolved parties person and property.

The NFPA route may work. It may be harder other ways. But I argue it is not the best way.
 
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Steve, that is entirely reasonable. May I suggest that you also post a note here as a tickler for those of us who do not haunt the Tripoli forum to go look (heck I don't even know how to get in...)?

Thanx for being willing to open up the process a bit.
 
DavidMcCann said:
One might say the peril to rocketry clubs is also small from that perspective. The largest threat is damage to uninvolved parties person and property.

The NFPA route may work. It may be harder other ways. But I argue it is not the best way.
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Yes you are starting to get my point, the peril is not to the rocketry clubs or the rocketeers, it is the peril to the landowner.
 
DavidMcCann said:
Unless someone is looking for life insurance to take a ride on a rocket.
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Wait....
Wait....
Hold on.....
That's a thing?
Yes.
Yes, I want to do that.
Yes indeed.
Something like the forthcoming O5040X would do just fine!
Tim! I need a rocket with a saddle. I'll pay extra if you don't ask any questions.
 
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CzTeacherMan said:
Yes, I want to do that.
Yes indeed.
We're going to need something like the forthcoming O5040X would do just fine!
Tim! I need a rocket with a saddle. I'll pay extra if you don't ask any questions.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet that if you took up a collection, you'd probably find quite a few people that want to send you up on a rocket :)
 
Steve Shannon said:
So how does this sound: when there's an upcoming Safety Code revision or something at the NFPA level I will publicize it, not here, but on the Tripoli Forum.....
...Steve Shannon
Click to expand...

That sounds good, but would you mind posting a thread alerting us? Or make a comment in the Tripoli Report? Just something that says, "be sure to head to the website to comment on some rule changes we're working on" ...
My assumption is that you're not always changing rules, so when a change is being considered, it helps to have a heads up to go see what's happening.
Thank you for the idea!
 
CzTeacherMan said:
Wait....
Wait....
Hold on.....
That's a thing?
Yes.
Yes, I want to do that.
Yes indeed.
Something like the forthcoming O5040X would do just fine!
Tim! I need a rocket with a saddle. I'll pay extra if you don't ask any questions.
Click to expand...


I'm in on the gofundme to make this happen for you......

bigrocketfinal.jpg
 
CzTeacherMan said:
That sounds good, but would you mind posting a thread alerting us? Or make a comment in the Tripoli Report? Just something that says, "be sure to head to the website to comment on some rule changes we're working on" ...
My assumption is that you're not always changing rules, so when a change is being considered, it helps to have a heads up to go see what's happening.
Thank you for the idea!
Click to expand...

The Tripoli Report only comes out every 3 or 4 months, so I don't know if that would work.
I suggest that you subscribe to the thread on Tripoli Forum so you receive an email when there is a new post. I'll create it in the next few days and post here so you can go subscribe.
 
DavidMcCann said:
Wear a parachute so we can self regulate this thing.
Click to expand...

I've got a Recon 20". That ought to be good enough, right? LoL!
All jokes aside... Just as a fun thought experiment... I might actually plan this thing out...
I blame Glen.
My wife will be angry.
Until the life insurance policy pays off.
 
CzTeacherMan said:
That sounds good, but would you mind posting a thread alerting us? Or make a comment in the Tripoli Report? Just something that says, "be sure to head to the website to comment on some rule changes we're working on" ...
My assumption is that you're not always changing rules, so when a change is being considered, it helps to have a heads up to go see what's happening.
Thank you for the idea!
Click to expand...

I just created the Tripoli Forum announcement thread at
https://www.tripoli.org/Forums/aft/418

I recommend that any Tripoli member who wants to track changes subscribe to the thread. I will not be making the same announcements here.


Steve Shannon
 
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Also, earlier people asked how the drag race rule came about for NFPA 1127. There are two distinct balloting periods during the development of new rules. The first is the proposal process and the second is the comment process. I went through the documents for the 2013 version of NFPA 1127. I placed links in my post in the Tripoli forum.
During the proposal process the Rocketry Task Group (those members of the NFPA Pyrotechnic Technical Committee who directly represent rocketry interests) proposed that the safe distance for drag races would be twice the complex safe distance for the largest motor used in the drag race. That was approved during Report on Proposals ballot.
Then it's published and anyone is free to submit suggestions, concerns, etc.
A private party, not a member of the NFPA Pyrotechnic Technical Committee, submitted the wording and an argument for its adoption that changed the proposal from twice the complex distance for the largest motor to the complex distance for the total installed impulse. During the Report on Comments (ROC) process that wording was voted upon and took the place of the earlier proposed wording.
That's why it's important that everyone who is concerned about our hobby track and comment on NFPA proposals. In this case, one person, not a committee member, put together a submission and his argument for why it was better and was able to completely change a rule.
So, if you're interested in changes to NFPA 1127, you should sign up to receive notifications of all proposed changes.
Finally, NFPA covers much more than fire safety, agency name notwithstanding. NFPA committees write sample code for all kinds of safety related things.


Steve Shannon
 
Yet another reason to hate the NFPA. A process that allows one person to affect that much is broken. We should find ways to get rocketry out of the NFPA and keep it out. We don't need that commie BS.
 
DavidMcCann said:
Yet another reason to hate the NFPA. A process that allows one person to affect that much is broken. We should find ways to get rocketry out of the NFPA and keep it out. We don't need that commie BS.
Click to expand...

Dave, that is one way to look at it. Conversely, it could be looked at that NFPA, while flawed, has helped to allow folks to participate in some areas where it might not have been allowed.
 
markkoelsch said:
Dave, that is one way to look at it. Conversely, it could be looked at that NFPA, while flawed, has helped to allow folks to participate in some areas where it might not have been allowed.
Click to expand...

while that is very possible, I think on the whole it's giving power to an organization and not getting much benefit in return on the whole, while restricting our ability to set and make our own rules in a more logical fashion, and as we wish.

People have mentioned we need it for insurance. We're a profitable account. I doubt NFPA matters much in the choice to insure us.
 
DavidMcCann said:
while that is very possible, I think on the whole it's giving power to an organization and not getting much benefit in return on the whole, while restricting our ability to set and make our own rules in a more logical fashion, and as we wish.

People have mentioned we need it for insurance. We're a profitable account. I doubt NFPA matters much in the choice to insure us.
Click to expand...

What organization? The NFPA Pyrotechnic Technical Committee votes on rocketry rules pretty much however the Rocketry Task Group recommends. The Rocketry Task Group consists entirely of rocketry people: Aerotech, Estes, CTI, NAR, Tripoli, etc. We have a considerable amount of influence.
Another benefit is in having a set of very similar rules in nearly every state. The exception is California, where the California State Fire Marshal sets its own rules. If you think it would be an improvement to have multiple states establish rules independently, like California, I think you're wrong. I think most high power flyers in California would gladly trade CalFire in for the less intrusive NFPA 1127.
Theoretically, I would agree that Tripoli could probably choose some other set of rules as the basis of our Safety Codes. We did until 1994. As long as we followed our own rules and maintained a good safety record we should have no problem in holding insurance. But what about those states or localities that have adopted NFPA 1127? People in those areas (nearly all the states in some way) would then be faced with adhering both to our Safety Codes as well as to whatever NFPA 1127 would become without our input.



Steve Shannon
 
That's why I'm asking if we can get rocketry out of the NFPA. Not just ignore it.

i don't think we need rocket laws, so I'm obviously against getting in with a company that writes codes to be sold as law and can't even freely get a copy of to comply with. Making you sign up online is not freely available.

But doing this just to put laws in place in hopes of blocking any desire by anyone to write more laws... is suspect and not working anyways.
 
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