$25 GPS Solution

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The radio module in these boards can run on 2.4-3.6v the have a LDO regulator onboard to regulate the 5v down to 3.3.
They seem to run fine across the full voltage range that a 1s lipo provides .
If anyone has any data on if differing voltages affect range it could be interesting.

Be very careful here. An L3 candidate tried to run an EggFinder on a 1S Lipo (I suspect he didn't appreciate the instructions well enough) had a main
at apogee and took a few weeks to get his rocket back. Tracker failed likely on the pad. Happened at the last LDRS I believe. At least he got it back to
try again.

If these units can run safely on a 1S Lipo then a GPS chipset that works on 3.3V should be viable? I wouldn't want to risk a nice GPS like one with a Sarantel
antenna!

Easy enough to test it out. Let is sit out with a 1S battery you don't mind wasting and see. Remember with the 500mW units more battery capacity will lead
to longer run times and will likely be mandatory at opposed to a 100mW unit. Kurt
 
A couple of observations made today.

1. At the 11 power level, or 12.5mW on the 100mW system, the air module/GPS combo consumed 72mA to 85mA. The fluctuations corresponded with the LED's flashing on the transmitter and GPS module. I'll check consumption at the 100mW level at a later date.

2. I was able to get the rig running on my Windows XP laptop. Had to download a legacy version of VisualGPS, and legacy drivers for the ground module. However, the legacy version of VisualGPS did not capture as many satellites as the current version, and accuracy of position was a bit less.

edit 08/16/17: I also found a legacy version of U-Center with a bit of Google-Fu. Version 8.16 seems to be the last that would install on Windows XP. I installed today, and it works very well and captures all satellites that the newest version does.

Edit Addendum:

3. The radio must be disconnected from the GPS if one desires to reprogram anything on the radio. I got command errors if the GPS was powered while trying to use Mission Planner.

4. I bumped power to level 20, the full 100mW. Current measured was now 85mA to 140mA. My DMM impedance shut the GPS down after a few seconds of measurement though.

5. I made the system a bit more portable for outdoor testing purposes, and stuffed it into a 3D printed test nose cone. This is the elliptical design found on Thingiverse, that is threaded together in three sections. With ground receiver indoors on my desktop, and the nose cone on the front porch rail I was getting quite a few more satellites. On average about 8, rather than the 6 I was getting indoors on the workbench.

TestGPSNose.jpgNoseDisaGPS.jpg
 
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Congrats! 1S LiPo satisfies the voltage requirements for these components without frying them. Nice work on the testing, I was curious about amp draw and haven't yet tested. I typically show 10 to 13 satellites with the GPS antenna outside on my porch and the receiver in my kitchen.
 
Received the parts from this link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1se...32801613368.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.qkKkGS

for 433 Mhz and no dice just firing up the receive in the USB. Have the port identified. So, do I assume I have to build the transmitter side and turn both of the items on before
the things can be configured?

So scrolling down to the v1 picture: https://ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-3dr-radio-v1.html I assume the transmit line from the the GPS goes to the transmit socket of the 3DR or is it like below? It's the old dilemma of is transmit to transmit or transmit to receive?

It really is suckee to have to do a pigtail to try by trial and error. If transmit means the signal "to" the device it could mean the receive wire from the GPS goes to the transmit wire
on the 3DR. Correct or no?

So if one can run the radio off a 1S 4.2V cell can one use simply a 3.3-3.6V GPS in the first place and ditch the 5V GPS chipset? If one has to feed 5V for reliability would be a PITA to
add a voltage regulator to the transmitter for a 2S battery to feed a constant 5V. Comments? Kurt
 
From what I have read in the past you probably need to connect rx line on one module to tx line on the other, and in each direction. The transmit or receive nomenclature is usually local the module.

If you connect them with something like a 1k resistor and both sides go high and low similarly then you know you have got it right way around. Remove the resistor after you have it figured out. If they have lower input impedance then you may need to use a lower value resistor, but most likely not.
 
Kurt,

Connect GPS rx to 3DR tx

Connect 3DR rx to GPS tx

You can configure the radios without connecting anything to the transmitter radio. When both units are powered up and programmed, the LED's with remain lit. If the radios aren't talking to each other, the LED's will blink continuously. Mission Planner is fairly intuitive, but let me know if you need a quick programming flow chart (if you are using MP, that is).

Use a 1S lipo, you will be fine. No need to make it more complicated than that.
 
Kurt,

Connect GPS rx to 3DR tx

Connect 3DR rx to GPS tx

You can configure the radios without connecting anything to the transmitter radio. When both units are powered up and programmed, the LED's with remain lit. If the radios aren't talking to each other, the LED's will blink continuously. Mission Planner is fairly intuitive, but let me know if you need a quick programming flow chart (if you are using MP, that is).

Use a 1S lipo, you will be fine. No need to make it more complicated than that.


Thanks, waiting for the GPS to come but I might experiment with a Sarantel antenna GPS chipset in the meantime. I got the Mission planner program installed and the Net Framework installed and the system
found the Dongle at com 13. Had the port set at 9600 and Mission Planner set to 9600 but apparently I couldn't pull up the receiver. The Green LED was flashing.
Am I using the right program with the 3DR radio? This Mission Planner seems to want to have the radio connected to some sort of Auto Pilot controller. I think I'm missing something here. I don't
have the transmitter operating yet. So I guess I have to have the transmitter and receiver powered up for the system to get recognized? I take it "initial setup" is the pull down I need to use when
I get it going. Kurt
 
Thanks, waiting for the GPS to come but I might experiment with a Sarantel antenna GPS chipset in the meantime. I got the Mission planner program installed and the Net Framework installed and the system
found the Dongle at com 13. Had the port set at 9600 and Mission Planner set to 9600 but apparently I couldn't pull up the receiver. The Green LED was flashing.
Am I using the right program with the 3DR radio? This Mission Planner seems to want to have the radio connected to some sort of Auto Pilot controller. I think I'm missing something here. I don't
have the transmitter operating yet. So I guess I have to have the transmitter and receiver powered up for the system to get recognized? I take it "initial setup" is the pull down I need to use when
I get it going. Kurt

Do you have power to the transmitter (air module) while the dongle (ground module) is plugged into the USB port on the computer? If so, does the transmitter have a green LED on?
 
Do you have power to the transmitter (air module) while the dongle (ground module) is plugged into the USB port on the computer? If so, does the transmitter have a green LED on?

Ok, That's it. I don't have a power arrangement for the transmitter yet. I'll cobble a connection to get power to the transmitter then. I take it even though I won't have a GPS attached yet I'd be able to pull up the configuration
screen and peruse it. Thanks.
 
Yes. I just used a 1S LiPo battery to power the air module. Green LED came on, and when it found the ground module, the respective LED's on air and ground modules will stay on solid. That means they are in communication with each other.

I found that the programming of my radios is only possible when the GPS is NOT connected to the air module.
 
Does anyone know the Digikey or Mouser part number for the connectors used on the modules or is that a Ardupilot and other standard I can find? I want to make some custom connectors for alternate endpoints etc.
 
Does anyone know the Digikey or Mouser part number for the connectors used on the modules or is that a Ardupilot and other standard I can find? I want to make some custom connectors for alternate endpoints etc.

They are JST-SH. See post #6.
 
Power up transmitter>plug in receiver>open mission planner>initial setup>select COM and baud rate>optional hardware>Sik Radio>load settings>upload firmware

Done.

Solid radio LED's = programming successful

Blinking radio LED's = programming unsuccessful

Note "copy to remote" when modifying
 
Good, Anyone have any further thoughts with the finding that ecarson has about not being able to reprogram the radios with the GPS connected up to the transmitter? I think I had a problem like that with a Byonics GPS tracker and had to put a series
resistor on one of the leads coming off the GPS so I'd be able to reprogram the APRS radio side. I'll have to go see if I can dig up the radio and look. Stupidhead here thought he would be cute and launch an 8 watt 2 meter APRS tracker in a large rocket
and not have to worry about tracking! First off, I have no L3 and secondly I don't have a large enough rocket to haul something like that up. Although, with the lighter lithium batteries out there it would be doable but really isn't necessary. Kurt
 
Power up transmitter>plug in receiver>open mission planner>initial setup>select COM and baud rate>optional hardware>Sik Radio>load settings>upload firmware

Done.

Solid radio LED's = programming successful

Blinking radio LED's = programming unsuccessful

Note "copy to remote" when modifying

Well this is getting pretty suckee. Not for the faint of heart. Received this set: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1se...32801613368.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.qkKkGS

Cobbled together a good power cable. I don't have a GPS attached yet. Plugged in the transmitter and got a negative smoke test and the flashing GREEN LED. Plug the receiver in and get an immediate
solid green LED. Now the fun begins. The Silicon Labs USB to uart bridge comes up on COM 13 with a 9600bps speed. Ok, so far so good. Now hit MP and initial setup and find COM 13 and 9600bps and the program fails to connect. Times out and dies. Says no heartbeat received. Both LEDs are solid green. Do I have to downgrade a driver? MP 1.3.49 comes up just fine.

Like I said, "Not for the faint of heart!" Kurt
 
When I first hooked up to the radio, I had com port at 57600 baud. The upper right hand corner of the MP screen should be at 57600 as well. Do not hit "Connect". I clicked "Load Settings". This may be the issue. At least you have solid greens on both, so one step closer. The real fun begins when trying to interface to "U-Center" I found.
 
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Oh, by the way, on the "faint of heart" observation. I used to run miles and miles back when I was young and crazy. Can still do about 2 miles at a much slower pace these days. However, I am of age where BP meds are now a daily thing. When I was building my 3D printer, or building an EggTimer, or trying to get this GPS-radio system working, I feel the BP rising...and I gobble down a beta blocker and wait 20 minutes. Works every time. :)
 
When I first hooked up to the radio, I had com port at 57600 baud. The upper right hand corner of the MP screen should be at 57600 as well. Do not hit "Connect". I clicked "Load Settings". This may be the issue. At least you have solid greens on both, so one step closer. The real fun begins when trying to interface to "U-Center" I found.

Thank you. Folks this is really suckee. If you don't have any hacking experience stay away until this thread gets easier. I was able to get the left side of the screen to come up with ecarsons instructions.
Thanks. Couldn't get the right side to come up. I gave up R/C years ago with the gold Futaba transmitters as I originally had a flying field in my back yard. Hacking this drone stuff is hard for the neophyte.
going to shutdown and start over. I don't have a GPS attached yet and just trying to get the programming software to connect. Again, I'm a total neophyte here myself. Kurt Savegnago
 
For anyone who thinks they can save money and time with this modality, stay away unless they are totally familiar with the drone hardware.
I was able to get the radio to connect once to a Winblows 7 home premium system. Close but no cigar. I will continue to keep working with it
because 500mW on the 70cm band with an NMEA tracker should be very useful. The Ham APRS stuff comes across once every 5 seconds and will
get one's rocket back but a little more Rf output will help for live tracking. Again, unless you are familar with this stuff, don't waste the $20.00 or more
until morons like me can get it up. I hate when others say it's easy but in reality if one isn't in the know, it can be a challenge. Kurt
 
I did a bit of reading on 3DR system, given your description of only the left side blanks filling in. You may possibly have inadvertently
changed the baud rate or something else on the right side (air transmitter). The solution per this link is to keep at 57600, and then
click the "Reset to Defaults" and wait a bit. I never had one side only appear, but this appears to be a useful way to get communications
back.

I've also been studying to see if some way to insert call sign into packets sort of like APRS, but so far I've come up empty.

https://3drobotics.zendesk.com/hc/e...-communicating-if-both-have-a-solid-green-LED-
 
Kurt,

Don't slit your wrists just yet... Maybe pop a beta blocker (or your choice of whatever readily available sedative you may have) or something.

Everyone's learning curves are different. Deterring others based on your experience alone isn't quite fair. Lest we forget that it was in his early to mid-twenties when Newton wrote most of the laws us humble hobby rocket guys have to obey, and that Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes.

Your radios are fine, and I think you may be overthinking or overanalyzing this. If I understand correctly, when powered up, your radio status LED's are blinking instead of solid.

Try this:

Power up transmitter>plug in receiver>launch mission planner>initial setup>select COM and baud rate>optional hardware>SiK radio>load settings>upload firmware (local)>copy required to remote.

Done.

This can be done at any time and is recommended upon purchase to ensure up-to-date firmware. However, if your radios are already pre-programmed and communicating properly with each other (this is indicated with solid green LED's when tx is powered up and rx is plugged into USB) then there is nothing you need to do at this point to confirm that they are working properly unless you have a quadcopter flight computer lying around. Wait till you get your GPS antenna wired up and you are sending data to a GPS program.

Quick note: I think you may be confusing the Ublox chipset baud rate of 9600 with the 3DR radio baud rate of 57600. Set baud rate to 57600 when programming the radios in mission planner, and set baud rate to 9600 in your GPS programs (Ucenter, VisualGPS, etc.) to receive data.

And when in doubt, data sheets:

https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/products/documents/NEO-7_DataSheet_(UBX-13003830).pdf

https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si1000.pdf
 
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I haven't tried the mission planner as a tool for just the radios, but have used the 3dr tool and the RFdesigns tool.
I found the 3dr tool to be the easiest to use for what we are trying to achieve, but found the RFdesign tool best for setting up systems with multiple receivers (laptop and bluetooth bridge to phone linked to same tracker).
If you are having problems getting this to work, reading the thread that I linked in post #4 might help.
PM me on here if you have any direct questions and I will try my best to help.
 
Nah, I ain't gonna slit my wrists. As long as I know someone else can get things to work I know there is a pathway to success. I jest have to find it. I know a lot of Ham radio APRS trackers that haven't touched their Beeline GPS trackers because
they couldn't deal with the idiosyncrasies of the serial connection to the communications program. As a result, there are a fair number of flying houses out there as opposed to rockets as they don't want to deal with reprogramming to the rocket icon.
The AP510 2 meter APRS tracker is extremely quirky but there is an online video to help with setting it up. The kicker here is if one flashes the ROM the "HAVE" to use the setup program that came in the flash package from hear on out.
It also has USB driver issues where one has to roll back their USB drivers in order to get it to connect. Something about a counterfeit USB/serial chipset in the provided cable.
So, I've dealt with some weirdness in the past. Took me 18 months to get Burnsim to run via WINE in linux. Had no help with that one as there were no Linux/rocketry/motor mixing compatriots out there who were smarter than I to accomplish it.

I did get it to connect both receiver and transmitter one time so I know it's possible. I will say I fed it with a voltage regulator to get 5V to the transmitter and also tried a 3.3V regulator. Both seemingly powered the unit fine.

I need to track down the other programmers to try. I presume one needs to lower the port speed on the tracker to 9600bps to improve the range of the tracker? Kurt
 
Don't lose hope. This is a very viable low cost system that does work well from my limited testing so far. I have had a prototype unit breadboarded up on my desk for a week or so and the final components came in today to do my final build. I got it all put together this afternoon and just got in from doing a test flight with it attached to my phantom 3 where I had a solid gps position out beyond a mile. I used all components referenced earlier in this thread from aliexpress and ebay, and I am using the rocket locator app. I took some pictures as I was putting it together this afternoon and I would be willing to do a bit of a writeup showing how I did it if you guys are interested.
 
I took some pictures as I was putting it together this afternoon and I would be willing to do a bit of a writeup showing how I did it if you guys are interested.

That would be fantastic! Please do!

I have made some progress as well, as my USB OTG cables arrived today. I fired up the transmitter, plugged the receiver into my Galaxy S4 with said (propper) OTG cable and ran GNSS Commander with total success! We now have a wired Android solution requiring no modification (additional battery, BT installation, board wiring, etc.) and are still below $27. I will get some screenshots and pics up along with a quick functional synopsis tomorrow morning (GMT-4 here on the right coast).

I have procrastinated on my BT integration but should have time Monday to get that figured out. Once that is finished, we will have solutions for PC and Mac base stations as well as mobile Android and iOS solutions both wired and wireless.

To respond to Kurt's range anxiety, 900 Mhz data radios have been around for a while and are viable, low-power solutions for long range telemetry. I think you are underestimating the system. It's difficult to understand and justify the necessity for, in our discipline especially, mesh network systems, remote drones, helium balloons with receivers or any other means of range extension when there are pico balloon trackers out there that weigh 20 grams and function (that is, transmit and receive data) without error well onto the hundreds (with less than ideal LOS and obstructions, e.g. urban buildings) and often thousands of kilometers (with LOS).

Hang in there, Kurt! Stay tuned!
 
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OoooooooooK, Stupidhead here got it.:bangpan::jaw: Finally got to this page: https://ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-configuring-a-telemetry-radio-using-mission-planner.html
I think it was already posted here. Thing that stuck me was the upper right. Got the com port set BUT ONE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HIT CONNECT IN THE UPPER RIGHT!
Also mine connects at com 13 and I used 57600 in the upper right setting initially and when I changed the baud to 9 in the setup for the local and remote, I had to set the com port
communication to 9600 to get it to reconnect.

The "receiver" can be connected by itself and it will appear in the left side. It has to be on/connected in order to transmit any changes to the "remote" (transmitter) on the right.

Now the real kicker here is since we are only interested in one tiny datastream at 9600bps and not a bunch of extraneous data that would be blasted from a drone, what would the optimal settings
be for such a restricted task we are asking it to do? Reason I ask is some of the stuff seen on the drone boards. Higher data rates equals less range and the trick will be to optimize the stream for
our purposes since we'd like to see the longest range and longest ground footprint we can get out of these things.

I wonder if the "air" setting of 16 would be appropriate? Any tweaking suggestions yet? Thanks all for the coaching. Awaiting a GPS arrival Kurt

screenset.jpg screenset1.jpg
 
I got it all put together this afternoon and just got in from doing a test flight with it attached to my phantom 3 where I had a solid gps position out beyond a mile. I used all components referenced earlier in this thread from aliexpress and ebay, and I am using the rocket locator app. I took some pictures as I was putting it together this afternoon and I would be willing to do a bit of a writeup showing how I did it if you guys are interested.

What radio frequency and power level were you using for the >mile distance? Was that the 100mW or 500mW radio? I have not yet tried any distance testing yet, as other projects grabbed me the last couple of days. I would be very interested in your write-up as well.
 
I wanted to preserve the usb capability of the ground module, as well as add bluetooth capability. I will start with this one, since it was the more straightforward module for me to put together. For the bluetooth module, I used an HC-05 that I had laying around from an earlier project. This module is very easy to integrate with the ground radio that I received. I began by first cutting off and desoldering the 6 pin header that was installed on the bluetooth module, and then cut the 4 wire cable that will be later used for the air module to get 4 short pieces of wire that I soldered up like so:
IMG_20170811_154137.jpg

I then searched for the HM-TRP datasheet which is found here: https://www.hoperf.de/upload/rf_app/HM-TRP.pdf to get the pinout for the RF module itself. We can intercept the UART data from here, as well as power. I soldered the wires previously soldered to the bluetooth module to the pads marked VCC DTX GND and DRX on this module with power and ground going to VCC and GND of course, and with TXD from the bluetooth module going to DRX on the Hope module, and RXD from the bluetooth module going to DTX on the Hope module as shown here:IMG_20170811_154612.jpg

That completes assembly of the ground module, so I just shrink tubed the bluetooth module by itself and then piggybacked the boards and used a larger piece of shrink tube to make a reasonably neat and compact package like so: IMG_20170811_212029.jpg

My intention is to use this module as a "relay" between the long range RF and short range bluetooth by plugging it into a small usb power source that are all over the place these days. Something like this: IMG_20170811_160728.jpg

The air module is a bit more involved and tricky, but still very doable. I forgot to mention that I added a very nice magnetic switch from Featherlight Altimeters: https://shop.featherweightaltimeters.com/product.sc?productId=33&categoryId=2 to enable easy remote turn on and off when all of this is mounted in the rocket. I apologize that I didn't get pictures of a few of the steps I took making this up.

To begin this I took the 4 wire connector mentioned above and cut it to a length that would leave me adequate wire length but also not be excessive. I did not think to take a picture of this, but I'm thinking it was around an inch. I then cut the connector off of the gps module and stripped the 4 wires about 1/8" and tinned them. The pinout for the GPS module is described here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAKRC-Ublox-7-Chip-Core-OP-GPS-for-Openpilot-NAZE32-F3-Flight-Controller/32799709822.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.hLQ1i2 , and the pinout of the connector for the air module wasn't marked on my PCB, but mine was RX,TX,VCC,GND, going from top to bottom of the connector with the antenna connector on your right side. I will try to show this with a picture: IMG_20170811_213544.jpg. So now I took VCC and GND from the GPS and air module connector and soldered them together, along with the RX from the GPS to the TX from the air module and vice versa. This is then soldered to the pads marked OUT and GND on the Featherweight magnetic switch. Last is to install a battery connector to the magnetic switch and then heat shrinking the connections and the magnetic switch itself: IMG_20170811_163959.jpg If you are not using the switch, then solder the battery connector directly to the power and ground wires soldered together between the air module and gps, or to your screw switch, or whatever you decide you want to do. At this point the soldering is all done and all I did from there was to piggyback the switch and air module together and again heatshrink them to each other: IMG_20170811_165446.jpg That was all the construction for me.

At this point it's time to configure the radios and get them talking. I can add a screenshot later of my settings if needed, but from memory, I just changed the baud to 9 (9600), tx power to 20db, and mavlink to raw data and saved the settings. Then if everything went well, you will have screens looking like this:Screenshot_2017-08-11_16-11-06.jpgConnected.jpgucenter.jpg and it should all be working.

Sorry for the formatting with the pictures. I'm not good with formatting forum posts.
 
To respond to Kurt's range anxiety, 900 Mhz data radios have been around for a while and are viable, low-power solutions for long range telemetry. I think you are underestimating the system. It's difficult to understand and justify the necessity for, in our discipline especially, mesh network systems, remote drones, helium balloons with receivers or any other means of range extension when there are pico balloon trackers out there that weigh 20 grams and function (that is, transmit and receive data) without error well onto the hundreds (with less than ideal LOS and obstructions, e.g. urban buildings) and often thousands of kilometers (with LOS).

Hang in there, Kurt! Stay tuned!

Got it thanks. See above. My hope is to see better recovery of positions for live tracking/plotting purposes. Yes I know not necessary for sport flying but is nice nonetheless and logically more helpful for
longer distance tracking especially with the main at apogee that I know no one here has experienced.:wink: Some of my issues might be with the end program latency and timing as a reason positions
aren't plotted although I did see better recovery going from a duck to a larger mag mount 900Mhz receive antenna to a patch antenna on a 10 foot pole:
antennastick.jpg

The patch antenna made quite an improvement in position plotting with the 900Mhz trackers. I think one/sec position vs. once every 5 seconds via APRS should lead to better recovery
but I haven't noticed that yet on 900Mhz

On one hand with APRSISCE/32 on ground tests every derned position gets plotted:
Screenshot (4).jpg

Red line is the EggFinder with the red breadcrumb squares. The black numbers are the GPS altitude which of course isn't the greatest with the SirfIV chipset. The black line
is the "base" station position from its GPS tracker of course riding in the same car.

Screenshot (5).jpg

This is a ballistic flight that lasted longer than 4 seconds but I would have assumed there would have been more positions recovered. Yes I know under "G" gps doesn't work well and also
tumbling that varies the antenna polarity can affect the receive end. That was with a "duck" antenna on both EggFinder and the receiver. I didn't get the obligatory "fincan" out of the
ground picture because I did want to screw up my tracking program trying to minimize it and taking the picture. I found it and it's still flying.

Other flights show improved recovery with the "Patch on a pole" but still not near as good as a ground test and the plotted altitudes are likely not that good. The best recovery of
positions with the 900Mhz trackers occurs on the slower descent under the main chute. Recovery of positions is improved.

Works arounds include circularly polarized antennas on both ends (on the higher frequencies) and of course higher Rf power. That's what I'm hoping for with the higher powered 3DR radios
and the relatively low data rate that simple tracking entails. With 433Mhz, a Yagi is workable on the receiving end but not practical on 900Mhz until the rocket is down.
Oh yeah, I know one can get a track logger for the older EggFinders and I got two of them. Still trending can be helpful. Am staying tuned to this! Kurt
 
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