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  1. #151
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
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    593
    I still think you are burning time and adding unnecessary complexity in your search for an exact voltage.

    See pic below from this link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Whol...734904270.html

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Notice how the "Voltage =" reads. I think it's just the general nomenclature used with electronics and electrical components. To display 5V on a device is just a reference. The data sheets specify the ranges. It's like the psi rating of a tire. 5lbs over and under spec pressure actually have their advantages and disadvantages in certain conditions but the tire runs just fine within that range without affecting it's integrity. I'm sure that's oversimplifying the complexity of electronics, but is the principle not the same?

    As for the 1/2 watt guys, what will you do for batteries? If the radios are drawing 500mAh on transmit, you will need quite the reserve! So a 3kmah will give you 6 hrs continuous transmit? If I remember, the radio shoots data out at a pre-programmed yet adjustable 1Hz. But I wonder what that means in terms of transmit time per hour or "duty cycle".

    I found these a while ago and started researching lipo wiring:

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...ngle-cell.html

    Could be interesting to build your own batteries to fit your project as single cell lipos come in all shapes and sizes.

    Last edited by CORZERO; 18th August 2017 at 04:02 AM.


  2. #152
    Join Date
    10th July 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    835
    To display 5V on a device is just a reference.
    Not quite. Some devices, like TTL logic are specified at 5V supply, and the tolerance is typically from 4.75 to 5.25. Outside that all bets are off and the data on the data sheet is not valid.

    If it is for something like a small microcontroller or something else which has an internal rail of 3.3V for instance, it might have a voltage regulator rated at 5V input, but regulated down to the acceptable 3.3V so it can be powered from a USB connection but is protected from the extra voltage.

    So unfortunately it is not always like a tyre where the additional pressure just causes a bit of extra wear in the center of the tread. Too high voltage on some electronics will let the magic smoke out . Too low voltage means that the specifications are not guaranteed to be met (or any function at all).


    Yep. Duty cycle cuts down the amount of time at full Tx power so extends the overall time that the battery will hold up. This method is used extensively in electronics to reduce power consumption.

    TRA 13430, Level 3

    "Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

  3. #153
    Join Date
    3rd March 2012
    Posts
    7
    I would entertain the idea of offering either kits or assembled modules if the interest is out there. I would prefer to go the Bluetooth route that I have described simply for the fact that compatibility with users devices should not be any sort of a problem. There would be a lead time involved (a month or thereabouts) in procuring the parts needed and in assembling if that's what is wanted. Just trying to see if there is any real interest before I go investing much of my time or money. PM me if you are interested.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    21st March 2011
    Location
    central America
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    1,819
    I would be interested in a kit with *clear* instructions. with or without bluteeth.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    21st March 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    54
    I got my FTDI cable today. I made the assumption initially that the TX and RX on the GPS module were reversed, but now it appears that the TX and RX on my air module transmitter were reversed. I still have not taken the module housings apart, preferring to keep them intact for the time being. I had to switch back to use the FTDI cable. Made careful notes and diagrams so I would know how to wire it up. At any rate, a 3.3V TTL FTDI cable is working quite well, and the GPS module is performing much the same as when it was connected to the transmitter.

    Now, my plan is to dig deeper into the GPS module firmware programming itself, to see why the selected strings are output as they are (as received from the vendor). I still want to use that $GPTXT command to transmit my call sign.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
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    593
    Looks pretty simple. See page 63 under "Example": Any ASCII text (www.u-blox.com)

    https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default...%29_Public.pdf


  7. #157
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
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    593
    You're beyond anywhere I have been with the device. I'm too lazy to learn the programming side and would probably just throw a question out here:

    https://forum.u-blox.com/index.php?qa=ask

    Can't imagine it has yet to be done by other hams.


  8. #158
    Join Date
    21st March 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    54
    After a lot more research, I find that these GPS modules are most likely not going to be original Ublox hardware. After many attempts at generating a configuration file, there is no response. It appears that a 7M series, even a knock-off copy, is ROM based only and cannot be reprogrammed at all. There appears to be no provision for UBX communication with these chips either. One can read the basic stuff from U-Center message view, but that is all.

    Every time I try to send requests, or even poll the module for relevant information on the configuration file, I get a "timeout no response" message.

    To do what I was thinking, one would need a genuine Ublox 7 module with flash memory. My interest is still piqued though, and I'll move this to the back burner for now. I would have to invest in a real Ublox module with flash memory, and that obviously takes us out of the <$25 category immediately.

    At any rate, I still wish to thank CORZERO for finding this set-up. It does work, and for my purposes of just locating a rocket once down, it will be fine.

  9. #159
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    23rd August 2015
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
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    The NEO-7N is meant to have programmable flash and can be found quite cheap, might be worth trying one of the copies of it.

  10. #160
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    21st March 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
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    54
    Quote Originally Posted by vance2loud View Post
    The NEO-7N is meant to have programmable flash and can be found quite cheap, might be worth trying one of the copies of it.
    My curiosity has gotten the best of me...once again. I decided to take a step up, and order a NEO-M8N module. This receives more satellites off more GNSS systems and according to specification sheet has flash memory for programming, etc. I found this site, which has a genuine module from UBLOX. The price seemed well in line. I'll probably not put this into a rocket, but a future project involves building a quad-copter with capabilities approaching high end performance.

    http://www.helipal.com/hglrc-ublox-gps-m8n-module.html

  11. #161
    Join Date
    23rd August 2015
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    118
    Another module worth looking at if you don't mind a bit of soldering is the 'gms-g9'.
    It is multi-constellation and runs on 3.0-4.3v making it ideal for a 1s lipo.
    I am not sure if it has flash memory or not, I will try to test one tomorrow and will let you know.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    26th November 2009
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    4,213
    Boy, I was in the process of writing up some crap on this subject but got way layed. Working on the "receiver" or local device of the 3DR link on a 433Mhz 500Mw set as outlined by Dan in #118:
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...20#post1718520

    I found with an HC-06 B/T module connected, I couldn't get the Mission Planner program to come up and connect. Disconnect the HC-06 and the program connected nominally. This is with the device connected, plugged into a Windoze 7 machine via the USB port.

    Weeeeeelllll, to make a long story short, I plugged in an HC-05 B/T module into the "receiver", plugged the "receiver" into a USB 5V power source (not the computer) had Windoze pair with the HC-05 module and of course with WinBlows doing this "weird" B/T pairing process I see a com 14 and com 15 ports. I opened Mission Planner and selected com 14 in the upper right with 9600bps. (I had previously changed the communication speed from 56700 to 9600) I also am using pinned B/T modules so I used wires with plugs so I can swap out easily.

    So I hit "Load Settings" on MP and the B/T module does some weird flashing, the remote and local boards do their weird flashing and by golly the B/T link between the computer and the local/receiver board is active!

    This means programming can be carried out on the receiver/local side with the B/T module connected while on battery power only. Being plugged in via USB is not required.
    The data transfer can go over the B/T module as shown on Dan's post above.

    Now I need to get the bits to construct the transmitter/tracker/remote with the GPS, 5V regulator and see if the system will be programmable with the GPS connected.

    Now remember this is with the 433mhz 500Mw 3DR setup. Anyone have any pointers on setting these things up for maximum range as a GPS tracker? The Drone reports are
    at higher data rates the range gets cut down. Since we're only interested in a relatively slow datastream, choosing the right settings may maximize the range for rocket tracking
    purposes. Kurt

  13. #163
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    6th February 2015
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    593
    Nice progress! I'm curious, what is your goal with the bluetooth connection if you still need a computer to program the radios?

    And when does your GPS antenna show up?


  14. #164
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    6th February 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecarson View Post
    After a lot more research, I find that these GPS modules are most likely not going to be original Ublox hardware.
    Only one way to find out... I have a GPS unit that I ruined somehow (I suspect from heat with repeated soldering) sitting on my desk. I'll tear it open tomorrow and ID the chips. I'll post back with chip numbers and data sheets.


  15. #165
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    21st March 2017
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    Tennessee
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    I reconfigured back to the radio setup, and did a little distance testing myself today. This was the 100mW power. Now, I live in a quite densely forested area, with rolling hillside so this is not the optimum for range. At only about 300 yards I started getting packet dropout, but this was through a wall of solid dense forest between me and the transmitter. Both transmitter and receiver antennae were about 4 foot off the ground. Interestingly enough, I still had solid green on the receiver.

    After going down a hill, with almost complete packet dropout at 1/4 mile through dense forest and lost connection (blinking green). At 1/2 mile away I topped a hill, and stopped. It was same elevation as my transmitter. Packets came for three satellites, and receiver went solid green again. Examination of the area and correlation with packets told me that trees are not the GPS trackers friend at all.

    So, I am thinking that air speed adjustments (slowing down to minimum) may increase my range of packets a bit. I'll experiment with that in coming days.

    Granted, this was worst case conditions for the transmitter and receiver, but it told me a lot. I'll test on flat land with no forest at some point. If I can maximize packet reception via airspeed adjustments, I'll post my results.

  16. #166
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    6th February 2015
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    593
    Quote Originally Posted by ecarson View Post
    I reconfigured back to the radio setup, and did a little distance testing myself today. This was the 100mW power. Now, I live in a quite densely forested area, with rolling hillside so this is not the optimum for range. At only about 300 yards I started getting packet dropout, but this was through a wall of solid dense forest between me and the transmitter. Both transmitter and receiver antennae were about 4 foot off the ground. Interestingly enough, I still had solid green on the receiver.

    After going down a hill, with almost complete packet dropout at 1/4 mile through dense forest and lost connection (blinking green). At 1/2 mile away I topped a hill, and stopped. It was same elevation as my transmitter. Packets came for three satellites, and receiver went solid green again. Examination of the area and correlation with packets told me that trees are not the GPS trackers friend at all.

    So, I am thinking that air speed adjustments (slowing down to minimum) may increase my range of packets a bit. I'll experiment with that in coming days.

    Granted, this was worst case conditions for the transmitter and receiver, but it told me a lot. I'll test on flat land with no forest at some point. If I can maximize packet reception via airspeed adjustments, I'll post my results.
    I would consider this test a success. What device and program/s were you using with the receiver? That kind of range with that much interference proves that line of sight range should be quite impressive. I'm going to do a line of sight ground test tomorrow. I'll get back with those numbers tomorrow evening.


  17. #167
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    21st March 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
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    54
    I was using the Windows XP laptop with U-Center. I imagine I looked pretty strange walking around out here in the boondocks with a small 12" screen laptop, but heck...I was doing science!

  18. #168
    Join Date
    18th October 2016
    Posts
    215
    FWIW, I've used several of these Micro Ublox M8N GPSs and they work well for trackers. I've always been able to change their settings via U-center. If it matters here, they also are configurable by quadcopter/drone flight controllers over the ublox protocol. They're small & only $16 plus shipping.

    http://www.readytoflyquads.com/micro-ublox-m8n-gps-w-18x18x
    TRA L2. I-class record: "Vanish 29" with an I224, 14,596ft, Mach 1.92. Video here.

  19. #169
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    26th November 2009
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    4,213
    Quote Originally Posted by CORZERO View Post
    Nice progress! I'm curious, what is your goal with the bluetooth connection if you still need a computer to program the radios?

    And when does your GPS antenna show up?
    The intent of the HC-05 B/T module is like Dan shows it his post above. It's so the NMEA positions can be pulled/streamed off via the B/T link. Being soldered to the "Hope-like" module assures the data coming in from the "remote" is
    sent via B/T to whatever device will listen. In my case, I want to monitor with "GPS Rocket Locator" via an
    Android device. Ultimately, I want to use it with APRSISCE/32 http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/ or Xastir as these
    two apps give a very nice presentation of the situation and can be used directly for navigation once
    the rocket is down. There is bread crumbing with these programs and better data presentation over GPS
    Rocket Locator but GPSRL will get the job done 99.9% of the time.

    It just so happens that the radio turned out to be programmable over the
    B/T link. Windoze is screwy with B/T. Pair a device and one can see two
    com ports. I try connecting to the lowest numbered one through the app I'm
    using and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It worked with Mission
    Planner. That was an unforeseen benefit. I tried an HC-06 for a short time and
    I had to unplug the HC-06 in order to get the Mission Planner to connect.
    The next hurdle is getting the programmer to connect with the GPS wired into
    the 3DR remote. If it won't do that, I will come up with a plug arrangement or perhaps
    a resistor in series with the signal wire off the GPS will allow tracking and programming
    of the radio in situ. If not, will have to devise a means to plug the GPS in rather than wiring it directly. I want to be able to reprogram the parameters to get the maximum range.
    There is no use to these 3 DR radios if they don't perform as well as a low powered commercial unit.

    APRSISCE/32 takes two running instances to interpret two NMEA datastreams. I ran into a Linux fellow who also flies rockets and is a programmer. He not only uses Xastir but was familiar with APRSISCE/32 and told me how to
    get it to display my local and rocket positions on one photo map screen. I can hold the receive station in one hand
    and walk to the last known position. All-in-one tracking from liftoff to landing to recovery/pickup. It doesn't get any better than that. (Yeah, having "Kate" tell you
    over an Rf link that your rocket likely shredded at 36,000' at Mach 2.7 is nice, one
    pays accordingly for that privilege!)

    Way I look at it is if one already has a tablet or Android device they already have most of the the bits to do real time
    tracking.

    The gist of the higher powered radio is the prospect of more recovery of the live positions for mapping and
    trend following. That's nice to be able to see onsite with a totally sight unseen flight.
    With an unfortunate main at apogee on a DD flight, gives one some insurance of being able to track from
    a vehicle with one person driving one manning the receive station.

    If one's rocket is not going far, manual methods are fine. If one has the bits, or most of the bits, on hand
    for live map tracking all's it takes is a bit of effort to get that going. The Android "GPS Rocket Locator" is the
    easiest to setup without having to hack some Ham Radio apps.

    Kurt
    Last edited by ksaves2; 20th August 2017 at 05:10 PM. Reason: formatting change

  20. #170
    Join Date
    26th November 2009
    Posts
    4,213
    Here's some shots of the receiver/"local" with the HC-05 attached all plugged in to one of those USB battery supply thingies one can get at Wal-Mart. Yeah, the wires are a bit long and I might splice them before I shrink wrap the assembly.
    Now I have the 500mW version and the nice thing about it is the input/outputs were clearly labelled on the backside of the board for the USB socket and the "Hope-like" module. I followed the same procedure Dan did in post #118 and the labels
    for the "Hope-like" module on the 500mW rig is the same as the 100mW one. Oh yeah, that's J&B Weld on the wires for strain relief. I read where it has insulating properties and not conductive so I'm making a $25.00 bet here.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As an aside, when one gets down to it, if one doesn't have the bits and pieces on hand to cobble together this 3DR setup nor the soldering skills, in the end it's no $25.00 solution. The radio setup is ~$25.00 but the GPS module,
    voltage regulator, batteries and terminal hardware are going to cost. My advice to a neophyte is invest in one of the commercial sets or have one of the kits constructed for you.

    Trying to get a Ham callsign in the NMEA stream looks like it's going to take a "true" Ublox GPS chipset when a clone will not do. As I've mentioned, am desiring a higher power output to see if the recovery and decoding of
    the NMEA data strings can be made more reliable over the 100mW 915Mhz devices. I've found that I cannot recover as many positions for mapping purposes while in flight and surmise that aside from the GPS chipset
    limitations under high G's, doppler effects and treaty limitations I would like to see more positions plotted during the long coast phase prior to apogee and certainly during the descent under drogue.

    There is a fine logger board available for the EggFinders (I got 2 of 'em) but one has to be absolutely certain the logger board stays in contact with the EggFinder or power can be lost to the tracker.
    Not a nice prospect while in flight. If one solders the board to the EggFinder, it will no longer be programmable for frequency or ID. Perhaps a solution for a high dollar, high powered, high flying rocket but
    I'd like to be able to program my EF's. Sacrificial shrink wrap is a viable solution there I think.

    For sport flying and manual tracking the 100 and 250mW trackers on the 900Mhz ISM band work fine. I've never lost a rocket on an EggFinder or TRS and I presume the Missileworks system works just as well if not better,
    if one can afford the larger footprint. I only lost a Beeline APRS GPS tracker on the first flight because of metallic paint (sucked up the Rf so I couldn't get packets at altitude) and an apogee failure. Got the remains 18 months later and downloaded a perfect ballistic curve off the altimeter after battery replacement. Have 13 totally sight unseen Beeline GPS APRS flights and about the same Eggfinder GPS NMEA flights and I get everything back as long as nothing
    malfunctions with the deployments.

    Next stop is constructing the 3Dr GPS "remote" tracker with the radio, GPS, voltage regulator: https://www.pololu.com/product/2831 and 2S battery. If the maker recommends 5V that's what I'm going to feed my tracker with.
    That will assure everything is performing within spec. I want that 500mW Rf output. I am hoping the radio will still be programmable with the GPS attached. I have a Byonics MicroTrak APRS tracker that could only be programmed
    if the GPS is removed from the radio: https://www.byonics.com/mt-300 A fellow posted that a resistor soldered in a series on I believe the signal wire of the GPS allowed the Byonics tracker to be programmed with the GPS connected and the GPS to work nominally otherwise. I can't find the documentation but I have the Microtrak stashed away out in the garage so I can look at the arrangement. I remembered it still worked last time I ran it. I'll post a picture of it. It's massive compared to what's out there now. (The battery supply is large) I'll do a bench test first before soldering together.

    Once this is accomplished, programming the serial rates for maximum range is the last hurdle to overcome and see if there is any advantages over the other GPS tracking methods.

    Oh, I picked up a used (but appears immaculate) Nexus 7 2012 3G with 32Gb memory for $49.00. Rooted it. Stuck an AT&T 3gb/$30.00/month data card in, put the latest AOSP nougat 7.1.2 kernel in there and though it's
    a little slower than my N7 2013 LTE it works well with GPS Rocket Locator. The 7.1.2 nougat Lineage kernel for the N7 2013 is still pretty rough and won't run the apps I want without locking up.
    For instance, I can make VOIP/SIP phone calls from the 2012 using Talkatone. These tablets were never designed for cell calls in the first place but the VOIP/SIP workaround is very usable. (The calls use data
    but the overhead is pretty low.)

    You fall and break your ankle out in the field and you can call for help from your tracker receiving station as long as you have cell/data service at your site. Left your phone in your car? No problem. Nice trick. Kurt
    Last edited by ksaves2; 20th August 2017 at 05:14 PM.

  21. #171
    Join Date
    5th July 2016
    Posts
    33
    Re: SIM cards.

    Switch to Google Fi for your primary line. Then pick up one of their free "data only" SIM cards. It costs nothing for the extra cards and I have several in our tablets including the same Nexus 7 FHD LTE. Only pay for data.

    If you don't have a Google Fi compatible phone, next best thing is to switch to Ting (they offer referrals, and you get $25 off: https://zc7c9715lq2.ting.com/ ).

    Though, Ting does cost $6/mo for each line.
    Eric A. Duncan - http://eduncan911.com
    --
    Rocketeer from the early/mid `80s. Daughter is rekindling the flame!

  22. #172
    Join Date
    26th November 2009
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    4,213
    Quote Originally Posted by GrouchoDuke View Post
    FWIW, I've used several of these Micro Ublox M8N GPSs and they work well for trackers. I've always been able to change their settings via U-center. If it matters here, they also are configurable by quadcopter/drone flight controllers over the ublox protocol. They're small & only $16 plus shipping.

    http://www.readytoflyquads.com/micro-ublox-m8n-gps-w-18x18x
    It looks like one would need to pull the regulated 3.3V off the contacts of the "Hope" module if feeding 5V through a regulator as I plan to do. Don't make the mistake of feeding the GPS with 5V or you'll toast it. Been there and done that myself.
    Went through a sewer pipe backup and I can't find my Sparkfun USB/interface boards I used to connect GPS receivers up to for testing. Would be nice to program a Ham Callsign in the "comments" section to be "legal".
    That chipset above comes with a weird 36000 baud setup that might have to be changed for programming purposes. Unless one has the hardware to program it outright, I wouldn't buy one. Kurt

  23. #173
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    26th November 2009
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    4,213
    Quote Originally Posted by eduncan911 View Post
    Re: SIM cards.

    Switch to Google Fi for your primary line. Then pick up one of their free "data only" SIM cards. It costs nothing for the extra cards and I have several in our tablets including the same Nexus 7 FHD LTE. Only pay for data.

    If you don't have a Google Fi compatible phone, next best thing is to switch to Ting (they offer referrals, and you get $25 off: https://zc7c9715lq2.ting.com/ ).

    Though, Ting does cost $6/mo for each line.
    I checked that out but I'm a cheapskate on phones. Got a BLU Studio G plus so I could use my old Go Phone 10 cents a minute account. No data but it's up to the limit and I get a year to use up 1000 minutes. I never do that though.
    Who does Ting piggy back on? Freedom Pop I'm using on an N7 2013 LTE uses AT&T but they nickel and dime people to death. FP allows 500mb rollover a month and I'm getting a bit disgruntled with it. $30.00 for 2Gb and only 500mb of
    the unused data is rolled over up to 10Gb. Will take forever to stockpile data. Kurt

  24. #174
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by ecarson View Post
    After a lot more research, I find that these GPS modules are most likely not going to be original Ublox hardware. After many attempts at generating a configuration file, there is no response. It appears that a 7M series, even a knock-off copy, is ROM based only and cannot be reprogrammed at all. There appears to be no provision for UBX communication with these chips either. One can read the basic stuff from U-Center message view, but that is all.

    Every time I try to send requests, or even poll the module for relevant information on the configuration file, I get a "timeout no response" message.

    To do what I was thinking, one would need a genuine Ublox 7 module with flash memory. My interest is still piqued though, and I'll move this to the back burner for now. I would have to invest in a real Ublox module with flash memory, and that obviously takes us out of the <$25 category immediately.

    At any rate, I still wish to thank CORZERO for finding this set-up. It does work, and for my purposes of just locating a rocket once down, it will be fine.
    This module:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAKR...460.0.0.lWTIuU

    Is marked Ublox

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Edit: All documentation here:

    https://www.u-blox.com/en/product/ubx-g7020-series
    Last edited by CORZERO; Yesterday at 12:36 AM.


  25. #175
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    21st March 2017
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    Tennessee
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    That is quite interesting. I checked out the chip number, and looked at the Ublox page. Screenshot attached. It indicates that the G7020KT supports flash memory, yet I have not been able to get any response out it. I followed the steps for accessing the chip programming per the UBLOX instructions, with no luck no matter what I tried. The main thing, is when I tried to find out what baud speed the module was programmed for, via the U-center software, it would not respond to any poll or send command at all. Using a direct FTDI cable, with successful communication established, should have allowed that at a minimum.

    I googled that condition, and a UBLOX employee on a forum responded that the module was most likely not genuine, but a counterfeit. I admit I am still learning this system, so if anyone else has success in gaining access to the flash programming, I would sure like to know how. Getting that call sign on the $GPTXT string would be a great convenience.

    The NEO M8N module I ordered should arrive end of this coming week, and that should be definitive on the flash programming access.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  26. #176
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    6th February 2015
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    593
    I'll work on the software tomorrow. It's no secret that the Chinese constantly infringe upon trademarks and copyrights with their exports. I'm not certain it would benefit them, however, to use an inferior chip that would not possess the same functionality when cloning and manufacturing microprocessors is their business. There would be no cost savings. Where the motive lies to limit functionality with microprocessors is the question.


  27. #177
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    10th July 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    835
    Where the motive lies to limit functionality with microprocessors is the question.
    I think you are overthinking it. If the Chinese suppliers see someone needs a particular chip they will not hesitate to renumber the device. I have seen it in the production environment at work where one version of a motor drive chip was renumbered to what we wanted so they could make the sale. The devices functioned differently than the required ones (was a slightly different part). We ended up making a little daughter board to provide the required functionality.
    TRA 13430, Level 3

    "Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

  28. #178
    Join Date
    6th February 2015
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    Ersatz and rebranding by the Chinese. Shocking.



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