I wonder if Hobby Lobby will try to use a 40% off coupon to pay the fine?

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Presumably starting with lawfully obtained artifacts?


Most, if not all, of the "Great" museums of the world are filled with stolen artifacts, most admit it, and NONE have agreed to repatriate their treasures.

If it wasn't Hobby Lobby and the hatred that the Left has for them because they bucked the system and fought against the mandates of the ACA, this wouldn't even be news.
 


Most, if not all, of the "Great" museums of the world are filled with stolen artifacts, most admit it, and NONE have agreed to repatriate their treasures.

If it wasn't Hobby Lobby and the hatred that the Left has for them because they bucked the system and fought against the mandates of the ACA, this wouldn't even be news.

Seems to me they did this to themselves. No one threw them into this so no need to look for scapegoats.
 
While playing in Google found this from Immigration and Customs itself,
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/hobby-lobby-settles-3-million-civil-suit-falsely-labeling-cuneiform-tablets
The government also filed a stipulation of settlement with Hobby Lobby, in which Hobby Lobby consented to the forfeiture of the artifacts in the complaint, approximately 144 cylinder seals and an additional sum of $3 million, resolving the civil action. Hobby Lobby further agreed to adopt internal policies and procedures governing its importation and purchase of cultural property, provide appropriate training to its personnel, hire qualified outside customs counsel and customs brokers, and submit quarterly reports to the government on any cultural property acquisitions for the next eighteen months.
“The protection of cultural heritage is a mission that HSI and its partner U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) take very seriously as we recognize that while some may put a price on these artifacts, the people of Iraq consider them priceless,” stated Special Agent-in-Charge of HSI New York, Angel M. Melendez.
 
Presumably starting with lawfully obtained artifacts? :)

I think it would be best if the Bible Museum had a minimum number of looted artifacts purchased on the black market from ISIS through a series of shadowy intermediaries and smuggled into the country under fraudulent paperwork.
 
Remember in the first days of the Iraq war, when the great museums of Iraq were ransacked? We wondered where those looted treasures would resurface. Who would have guessed it would be the Hobby Lobby Bible Museum!
 
If it wasn't Hobby Lobby and the hatred that the Left has for them because they bucked the system and fought against the mandates of the ACA, this wouldn't even be news.

Do you mean that it wouldn't have been a crime? Or do you mean it would still have been a crime, but nobody would have cared?
 
Remember in the first days of the Iraq war, when the great museums of Iraq were ransacked? We wondered where those looted treasures would resurface. Who would have guessed it would be the Hobby Lobby Bible Museum!

It must have happened during the tether around Saddam statue stunt.
 
Most, if not all, of the "Great" museums of the world are filled with stolen artifacts, most admit it, and NONE have agreed to repatriate their treasures.

Heh. I guess I've always been more into science museums where that's not so much the case. But I went through the British Museum while I was traveling through London, and that definitely felt like a "look at all this awesome stuff we've plundered from the rest of the world!". I felt rather dirty after leaving the place. :p I'll stick to science museums, thanks. :)
 
Just my take on it (did enjoy the humor)
Hobby Lobby purchased and shipped no-no items.
So...who got the money?
It's fact that ISIS is looting and selling these things on the black market to fund their cause.
The only thing that they are destroying is entire cities(looking for these things), things they can't physically sell and move to fund their cause. (Massive stone carvings and such)
In reality, Hobby Lobby's Big Boss is funding ISIS. Maybe the intent of procuring the items where for a different reason, but...
National Security should be looking in this direction, not just the illegal importation of items that belong in another country's museum.

And how does Hobby Lobby afford to give so many 40% off coupons?
Look at some of there stuff at regular prices. As much as 10 times higher as that can be purchased on E(vil)bay.
I ran across this while looking for parachute men to stuff in larger rockets.
So I looked at some other random (what I call junk and useless items) and found the same highly up pricing.

Not saying that the 40% discount coupon isn't a good thing, but it is a fair thing.
I'm sure if one was closer than 80 miles to me I'd take advantage of it as well.

On a second thought, I wonder who's going to flip the 3m bill?
I wonder if they will do away with the 40% off coupon? Hmmmmm
 
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Most, if not all, of the "Great" museums of the world are filled with stolen artifacts, most admit it, and NONE have agreed to repatriate their treasures.
Question is, does the Honolulu museum, or any of the following, count as great since the Louvre it ain't.
Honolulu Museum Returns Indian Antiquities Looted by Disgraced Dealer Subhash Kapoor
Museums from Toledo to Australia have returned Kapoor's stolen goods.
Brian Boucher, April 2, 2015
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/honolulu-museum-returns-subhash-kapoor-loot-284487
"Operation Hidden Idol" sounds like a code name right out of Tom Clancy!
"Kapoor was extradited to India in 2011 to stand trial on charges of organizing a $100 million smuggling ring. For decades, he ran the New York gallery Art of the Past.
“This is definitely one of the biggest [art smuggling rings], I think, that we’ve seen in the world,” James Dinkins of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) told CNBC in 2014. New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art told CNBC at that time that was researching the histories of numerous gifts from Kapoor.
Kapoor also sold Indian antiquities to the National Gallery of Australia, several of which were repatriated last year (see Australian PM Tony Abbott Returns Stolen Statues to India and Australia Returns Stolen Second-Century Buddha). That haul included a $5.6 million sculpture of the god Shiva.
Also last year, Ohio’s Toledo Museum of Art restored a nearly 1,000-year-old bronze statue of the Hindu god Ganesh to India (see Toledo Museum of Art Returns Stolen Statue to India). That museum did not wait for the results of the government’s investigation, but rather followed its own policy of returning objects for which it cannot provide clear title.
The current repatriation results from an investigation known as Operation Hidden Idol, and started when New York City agents with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which oversees HSI, identified a 2,000-year-old terra cotta rattle in the Honolulu Museum’s holdings as looted property."

Does the British Museum count as great?
by Mark Babatunde, at 09:00 am, December 22, 2016, History
British Museum Returns Stolen Egyptian Antiquity
https://face2faceafrica.com/article/stolen-egyptian-artifacts
A statement from Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities said the artifact was put on show in an auction hall in Spain and a British antiquities dealer bought it.
Ministry Spokesman Shaaban Abdel Gawad said that Egyptian authorities had secured the artifact through a collaborative effort with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the British Museum, after proving its possession.
“The recovery of the relief is very important especially since it will help in restoration work currently being carried out by a Polish archaeological mission,” Gawad said.
 
3 million is nothing to a company like HL.

And it's a privately held company, which means there are no outside stockholders who are going to hold management responsible and fire them. So basically the Green family dines on mac & cheese for a while :p
 
Does anyone have a guess as to what The Store That Shall Not Be Named ( what we call it in our house) pays for Estes motors? How deep into the margin does 40% off cut?

I can pretend that it makes a tiny loss - but that's probably wishful thinking.
 
How deep into the margin does 40% off cut?

It depends- are they getting the motors legitimately, or are they secretly getting packages from Estes labelled "snozzberries" in the middle of the night?
 
Well AC Supply sells them for 40% off all the time, so there must be some margin there.

In any case, those coupons are a marketing tool to bring you into the store, where hopefully you'll buy more than just the one item. Presumably they find that there is a net benefit which is why they continue to offer them.

On the other hand, Michael's has recently started restricting the use of its coupons. Items that are designated as "Everyday Value" are now excluded. Last time I was there, such items were not clearly labeled, so I didn't learn that I couldn't get the discount on my item until I got to the register (I think it was glue of some sort). I was not happy, mainly about the lack of transparency.
 
Maybe "AC Supply" is a secret front for Hobby Lobby. Maybe some users here are shills for Hobby Lobby? I don't think it's a coincidence that "Hobby Lobby" rhymes with "Illuminati".

TRF is run by LIZARD PEOPLE! LIZARD PEOPLE RUN ROCKETRY!
 
Here's my take on it. Mr. Green wants to do everything in his power to preserve biblical artifacts. Perhaps he knew he was breaking the law, perhaps he didn't. Either way, he's guilty and needs to suffer the consequences. The consequences were levied, and he paid them, no fuss, no long, drawn out federal lawsuit to cost the taxpayers even more money. He did the right thing after having done the wrong thing. I think the Bible calls that "repentance." However, if people choose to no longer support his stores as a result of this, that is something he'll need to live with.

As for supporting ISIS, I highly doubt it. ISIS is well known for imprisoning and beheading Christians, which is not something Green would support in any way, shape or form, unless he was completely ignorant of it.

My personal opinion is that he had no idea what the people working for him were doing. He hired them with the assumption that they would comply with all international law, and he probably had little-to-nothing to do with the day-to-day operations. A bit like Martha Stewart.

Or, perhaps this was a bit of "the end justifies the means." Maybe he was thinking, "If I don't preserve these priceless biblical artifacts, who will?" If that's the case, then let me say that this is not the biblical way of behaving. To God, the "means" are the only important thing. God takes care of the "ends." If Mr. Green failed to trust God enough to preserve his own word, then that is a faith problem he'll need to deal with privately.
 
Okay folks, let's all be very careful. Some important lines regarding both politics and religion have already been been trodden upon. I haven't done anything because no one "took the bait" as it were. If you want this discussion to stay un-locked, please refrain from making political or religions comments.

I fully understand that given the subject of this thread, that's going to be difficult, but please try.
 
I think the reason this story is compelling is that it's about hypocrisy. This family has used the law to impose its own morality on its employees, and now it gets caught breaking the law, dealing in stolen property, and smuggling. A classic example of the wealthy using the law when it suits them and flouting it when it doesn't. Often rich folks get away with it, so it's fun when you get to see the self-righteous exposed as hypocrites!
 
I think the reason this story is compelling is that it's about hypocrisy. This family has used the law to impose its own morality on its employees, and now it gets caught breaking the law, dealing in stolen property, and smuggling. A classic example of the wealthy using the law when it suits them and flouting it when it doesn't. Often rich folks get away with it, so it's fun when you get to see the self-righteous exposed as hypocrites!

Hillary who?
 
As for supporting ISIS, I highly doubt it. ISIS is well known for imprisoning and beheading Christians, which is not something Green would support in any way, shape or form, unless he was completely ignorant of it.

It would be really interesting to know where these artifacts came from. A lot of these items have probably been catalogued in the past if they were ever in museum collections, or have been sold at auction, or have ever been insured, so it's probably possible to learn who owned them and when they were sold, or lost, or stolen. Were they looted from museums during the fall of Baghdad during the early days of the Iraq war? Or were they plundered more recently when ISIS took over northern Iraq? Who did the Hobby Lobby money end up going to?

The Green family fought a court case about not having a single penny of their money go toward supporting employee health coverage they feel is immoral, so it would be good to know if any of the artifact money went to terrorists.
 
I'm still going to buy Rocket Motors at Hobby Lobby for the simple reason that they're the only retailer in town that sells them. There's plenty of corporate hypocrisy to go around, and I can name a lot of companies that I do business with that I have a lot bigger beef with from an ethical standpoint.

You could argue that that makes me either a coward, or a cynic. I don't lose sleep over it. You do what you can to make a living, and maybe enjoy a hobby on the side.
 
<snip>The tablets were intentionally mislabeled to get through Customs and shipped to individual Hobby Lobby stores. If true, it sounds like they knew exactly what they were doing.<snip>

Oh come on folks, nobody has yet tied this to "Model Airplane Parts"? You folks let me down...

Okay folks, let's all be very careful...I haven't done anything because no one "took the bait" as it were...please refrain from making political or religions comments.

Does anyone besides me see the irony of a minister warning about discussing religion?
 
Oh come on folks, nobody has yet tied this to "Model Airplane Parts"? You folks let me down...



Does anyone besides me see the irony of a minister warning about discussing religion?

Nothing ironic about a minister trying to keep the peace in a community.
 
Oh come on folks, nobody has yet tied this to "Model Airplane Parts"? You folks let me down...



Does anyone besides me see the irony of a minister warning about discussing religion?

Oh, we do.

Those are the rules that came with this place, and honestly, it's one of the rules that allow conversation here to remain civil (most of the time).

You have no idea how hard I need to "bite my tongue" sometimes to try to follow them...
 
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I treat 100% of these conversations as fun and if it even begins to become touchy, I just walk away. I've only gotten mad once (and yes I slapped the idiot down), and it had nothing to do with religion, politics, safety, or even adhesives.

Meanwhile...

I do find it fascinating that people like zeroing in on Hobby Lobby because of the owner's personal beliefs. I do not agree with all of them, however none hurt me or anyone I am close to, so I am OK with the occasional 40% off an overpriced pack of black powder motors. And the looting of antiquities has been going on since we as a species started burying them. Nothing new here.


You have no idea how hard I need to "bite my tongue" sometimes to try to follow them...

The engineer doing battle with the minister? I'd love to hear you talking to yourself in the car.
 
I treat 100% of these conversations as fun and if it even begins to become touchy, I just walk away. I've only gotten mad once (and yes I slapped the idiot down), and it had nothing to do with religion, politics, safety, or even adhesives.

Meanwhile...

I do find it fascinating that people like zeroing in on Hobby Lobby because of the owner's personal beliefs. I do not agree with all of them, however none hurt me or anyone I am close to, so I am OK with the occasional 40% off an overpriced pack of black powder motors. And the looting of antiquities has been going on since we as a species started burying them. Nothing new here.




The engineer doing battle with the minister? I'd love to hear you talking to yourself in the car.

I subscribe to an archeology magazine. The issue of looted (and faked) antiquities gets complicated quickly, especially in places where antiquities are being destroyed. Which is the moral good, to allow their destruction, or to pay looters? Ordinarily, serious scientists would never consider condoning the looting of important historical artifacts for a ton of very good reasons. But if the alternative is losing those antiquities for all time and losing any opportunity that humanity might ever have to learn from them, then which is worse? Add into that the possibility that the looters are themselves evil (such as ISIS) and the money used to do more evil, then it gets even more difficult, and morally ambiguous.
 
Hobby Lobby is a great place to go girl watching while looking for Estes rocket engines. Share if you agree. :drool:
 
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