USS Fitzgerald Collision

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It could have been a repeat of.......

The Philadelphia Experiment. :dark:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment

The ship was sent back to WW2 to shoot down nuke armed V2's, or something. Fight the Japanese Zeros.

Upon return, it materialized in front of that cargo ship.

Of course, the MSM fake news will never tell you the truth. Another cover up. :facepalm:
 
And chemtrails! Don't forget chemtrails!

It could have been a repeat of.......

The Philadelphia Experiment. :dark:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment

The ship was sent back to WW2 to shoot down nuke armed V2's, or something. Fight the Japanese Zeros.

Upon return, it materialized in front of that cargo ship.

Of course, the MSM fake news will never tell you the truth. Another cover up. :facepalm:
 
Doc, I never heard of that movie, have to check it out sometime. Jet fighters would have problems against prop planes, they fly too slow. A Sidewinder would probably work, but too many targets during the pearl attack. Maybe put landing gear down, and flaps, then use MG/cannon!

Pete: I don't believe in the chemtrail thing, others like 911 and gov malfeazance are more interesting. Pearl was probably let to happen to get us in the war. Conspiracies have been going on long before the word was even used to describe us patriotic crazies!
 
Pearl harbor was faked by george bush and JFK with a time machine. They wanted to get the war machine going, so they blew up all the ships and made up stories about the Japs doing it.
 
I experienced being a conspiracy theorist for about six months starting on November 22, 1963. Since then I've learned to subscribe to the adage never ascribe to cleverness that which can be explained more easily by incompetence.

Doc, I never heard of that movie, have to check it out sometime. Jet fighters would have problems against prop planes, they fly too slow. A Sidewinder would probably work, but too many targets during the pearl attack. Maybe put landing gear down, and flaps, then use MG/cannon!

Pete: I don't believe in the chemtrail thing, others like 911 and gov malfeazance are more interesting. Pearl was probably let to happen to get us in the war. Conspiracies have been going on long before the word was even used to describe us patriotic crazies!
 
I have heard all the JFK theories. The best one says J. Edgar Hoover had tapped his phone, and heard him talking to Bobby, saying he wanted to get rid of Hoover, that (deleted), and the loser LBJ. They had the mob hit him. Note LBJ owned the Texas schoolbook depository. Look it up.

LBJ.jpghoover.jpg
 
Doc, I never heard of that movie, have to check it out sometime. Jet fighters would have problems against prop planes, they fly too slow. A Sidewinder would probably work, but too many targets during the pearl attack. Maybe put landing gear down, and flaps, then use MG/cannon!

Pete: I don't believe in the chemtrail thing, others like 911 and gov malfeazance are more interesting. Pearl was probably let to happen to get us in the war. Conspiracies have been going on long before the word was even used to describe us patriotic crazies!

Its a silly movie in my opinion. One of those movies you put on while you are doing something that needs some background noise. Not worth sitting down with a bowl of popcorn where you actually have to WATCH the movie.

They didn't attack the Zeroes during the raid; they attacked a pair that were on patrol. The jets actually buzzed them a time or two and really rattled the Zero pilots.
 
I will attempt to get it from the library. I'm a plane nut. Still watch Black Sheep Squadron reruns. Even though seen them all a few times, only ran 2 years. Once in a while see one I missed, like the old Star Treks!

If a fighter went supersonic past a Zero, it would probably rip it into shreds. They were quite fragile. Eventually our heavy fighters with the 8 machine guns could get them in hit and run attacks. Corsair, P47, Wildcat.

Our Navy ships will soon have laser weapons. The next time a ship tries to ram, it will be cut in half! :bangbang:
 
Pearl harbor was faked by george bush and JFK with a time machine. They wanted to get the war machine going, so they blew up all the ships and made up stories about the Japs doing it.

You did it now. You have uncovered the secret truth behind the reason for time travel. If I were you, I'd be looking into a name change, sex change and a relocation as they are surely tracking your every step now.
 
Speaking of old Star Trek esp, I just watched the first pilot for the original series that NBC rejected. Wow. It was terrible,but a good watch.
 
Well, here's an update about the collision.

REMEMBER this the next time someone goes off half-cocked spouting conspiracy garbage.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-idUSKCN1AX2TS

"U.S. Navy to remove senior leaders of warship after deadly June crash"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy will relieve the two senior officers and the senior enlisted sailor on a U.S. warship that collided with a Philippine container ship in June off the coast of Japan, the Navy said on Thursday,

A separate official report released on Thursday contained dramatic accounts of what happened when the freighter hit the USS Fitzgerald, killing seven Navy sailors.

Admiral Bill Moran, deputy chief of naval operations, told reporters that the USS Fitzgerald's commander, executive officer and master chief petty officer would be removed. "We've lost trust and confidence in their ability to lead," he said.

Moran said about another nine sailors would face administrative punishments, and he left open the possibility of further action.

While an investigation into the cause of the crash was still under way, Moran said there was enough evidence to take initial action.

"Serious mistakes were made by members of the crew, and there was no benefit to waiting on taking accountability actions," Moran told reporters.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are still under way into how the Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer, and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

Under the maritime rules of the road, the commercial vessel had the right-of-way, and the Fitzgerald, which was hit on the starboard, or right, side was likely at fault.

[For more, read the full article at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-idUSKCN1AX2TS ]
 
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There's always a simple anwser, and it's always most likely someone was lazy and or F'd up
 
The link under where you say remember works.
Link in quotes where it says "[For more, read the full article at:"
Gets this:
"Page Not Found
Our apologies, the content you requested cannot be located.
Please double-check the URL for proper spelling, browse our site index, or search Reuters.com using the Search box above."
 
Since Dad got their Proceedings magazine while he was in Navy during cold war I like to get news from US Naval Institute.
https://news.usni.org/2017/08/17/vc...arly-investigation-results-punishments-coming
USS Fitzgerald Command Triad Removed Following Early Investigation Results; More Punishments Coming
By: Sam LaGrone and Ben Werner
August 17, 2017 6:42 PM • Updated: August 17, 2017 10:56 PM
"The removals and the specter of additional punishments for those standing watch during the incident come as the Navy released a supplemental investigation that detailed the circumstances aboard Fitzgerald that resulted in the death of the seven sailors who drowned in their berthing space. The line of duty investigation occurs when a service member dies to make sure they did not die due to their own misconduct.

While the service was clear that the supplemental investigation was only into the events following the collision and not on the conduct of the crew before they hit the merchant ship, there are signs in the 41-page summary that there were substantial failures by the watch ahead of the damage control efforts."

That "... the Navy released a supplemental investigation that detailed the circumstances aboard Fitzgerald that resulted in ..."
https://news.usni.org/2017/08/17/document-investigation-deaths-7-sailors-aboard-uss-fitzgerald
Document: Investigation into the Deaths of 7 Sailors Aboard USS Fitzgerald
August 17, 2017 6:30 PM
The following is the “Preliminary inquiry and line of duty determination regarding injuries to three Sailors and the deaths of seven Sailors aboard USS Fitzgerald,” a supplemental investigation into the June 17, 2017 incident in which Fitzgerald struck the merchant ship ACX Crystal off the coast of Japan.

Investigators Believe USS Fitzgerald Crew Fought Flooding For An Hour Before Distress Call Reached Help
By: Sam LaGrone
June 21, 2017 8:28 PM
https://news.usni.org/2017/06/21/in...for-an-hour-before-distress-call-reached-help
Investigators now think Crystal was transiting to Tokyo on autopilot with an inattentive or asleep crew when the merchant vessel struck a glancing blow on the destroyer’s starboard side at about 1:30 AM local time on Friday.
 
This is highly disconcerting...

Fight the Ship
Death and Valor on an American Warship Doomed by its Own Navy
6 Feb 2019

https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/

Excerpts:

The collision of the vessels was the Navy’s worst accident at sea in four decades. Seven sailors drowned. Scores were physically and psychologically wounded. Two months later, a second destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, broke that grim mark when it collided with another cargo vessel, leaving 10 more sailors dead.

The successive incidents raised an unavoidable question: How could two $1.8 billion Navy destroyers, protected by one of the most advanced defense systems on the planet, fail to detect oncoming cargo ships broadcasting their locations to a worldwide navigational network?
The failures of basic seamanship deeply embarrassed the Navy. Both warships belonged to the vaunted 7th Fleet — the most powerful armada in the world and one of the most important commands in the defense of the United States from nuclear attack.

ProPublica reconstructed the Fitzgerald’s journey, relying on more than 13,000 pages of confidential Navy investigative records, public reports, and interviews with scores of Fitzgerald crew members, current and former senior Navy officers, and maritime experts.

The review revealed neglect by Navy leadership, serious mistakes by officers — and extraordinary acts of valor and endurance by the crew.
The Fitzgerald’s captain selected an untested team to steer the ship at night. He ordered the crew to speed through shipping lanes filled with cargo ships and fishing vessels to free up time to train his sailors the next day. At the time of the collision, he was asleep in his cabin.

The 26-year-old officer of the deck, who was in charge of the destroyer at the time of the crash, had navigated the route only once before in daylight. In a panic, she ordered the Fitzgerald to turn directly into the path of the Crystal.

The Fitzgerald’s crew was exhausted and undertrained. The inexperience showed in a series of near misses in the weeks before the crash, when the destroyer maneuvered dangerously close to vessels on at least three occasions.

The warship’s state of readiness was in question. The Navy required destroyers to pass 22 certification tests to prove themselves seaworthy and battle-ready before sailing. The Fitzgerald had passed just seven of these tests. It was not even qualified to conduct its chief mission, anti-ballistic missile defense.

A sailor’s mistake sparked a fire causing the electrical system to fail and a shipwide blackout a week before the mission resulting in the crash. The ship’s email system, for both classified and non-classified material, failed repeatedly. Officers used Gmail instead.

Its radars were in questionable shape, and it’s not clear the crew knew how to operate them. One could not be made to automatically track nearby ships. To keep the screen updated, a sailor had to punch a button a thousand times an hour. The ship’s primary navigation system was run by 17-year-old software.

The Navy declined to directly answer ProPublica’s questions about its findings. Instead, a spokesman cited previous reports that the Navy published during its own months-long review of the collisions.

The Navy inquiries determined that there had been widespread problems with leaders regarding shortfalls in training, manning and equipment in the 7th Fleet. The Navy fired admirals, captains and commanders, punished sailors and criminally prosecuted officers for neglecting their duties.
 
<snip>....The Navy inquiries determined that there had been widespread problems with leaders regarding shortfalls in training, manning and equipment in the 7th Fleet. The Navy fired admirals, captains and commanders, punished sailors and criminally prosecuted officers for neglecting their duties.
Well at least it sounds like there were widespread consequences, from sailors to Admirals. That's a start. I just had a quick look at the linked story but it looks very well done, goes far beyond the synopsis above. It has interactive graphics that animate as you scroll up through the story. It's long, but looks to be well worth the read.

Thanks, Winston, for posting the link.


Tony
 
Well at least it sounds like there were widespread consequences, from sailors to Admirals. That's a start. I just had a quick look at the linked story but it looks very well done, goes far beyond the synopsis above. It has interactive graphics that animate as you scroll up through the story. It's long, but looks to be well worth the read.

Thanks, Winston, for posting the link.


Tony
This very briefly and incompletely summarizes it - it was a 1.8 BILLION dollar ship in disrepair with critical navigational assets out of service or severely compromised, an inattentive manned watch which knew that the electronic aids were compromised, a complete breakdown of the chain of command and which in the weeks beforehand had had two other near-misses due to previous failures to properly keep a lookout.

I can only hope that the Chinese and Russians are as bad or, preferably, worse.
 
This very briefly and incompletely summarizes it - it was a 1.8 BILLION dollar ship in disrepair with critical navigational assets out of service or severely compromised, an inattentive manned watch which knew that the electronic aids were compromised, a complete breakdown of the chain of command and which in the weeks beforehand had had two other near-misses due to previous failures to properly keep a lookout.

I can only hope that the Chinese and Russians are as bad or, preferably, worse.
Read up on the Kursk sinking. I realize it was a years ago but seems unlikely things have improved since.


Tony
 
A lot of us complain about a major communications provider. I think it's just a result of a large operation.. the details get mired with the levels of bureaucracy & the back n forth and such.. The intent and priorities get lost along the way, and the time to get things done becomes the bottleneck / failure..

but, yeah.. wow.. quite the read..
 
The full article was a very interesting and somber read. It’s truly sad that our young brave heroic service men and women are not being properly supported by their high command officers. That ship should have never left the dock.

There was no mention in the report about the responsibility of the freighters involved in the accident. Aren’t all ships at sea responsible for safe navigation? The freighters should have lookouts and commercial state of the art radar. Was any blame attributed to the freighters?
 
An excellent, concise summary found on military.com:

Before the Navy's Tragic Fitzgerald Collision, the Crew Faced These Big Problems
9 Feb 2019

https://www.military.com/daily-news...-collision-crew-faced-these-big-problems.html

A new investigation into a deadly nighttime collision involving a U.S. Navy destroyer heading toward a secret mission in the South China Sea reveals several warning signs leading up to the tragic accident that took seven sailors' lives.

ProPublica, a nonprofit that produces investigative journalism, published a series of reports this week on the destroyer Fitzgerald's June 2017 collision with a cargo ship off the coast of Japan. Titled "Fight the ship: Death and valor on a warship doomed by its own Navy," the report reveals multiple troubling mistakes made by Navy leaders, some of which were previously undisclosed.

It also details courageous actions and heartbreaking choices from the ship's crew.

ProPublica combed through more than 13,000 pages of investigative records and interviewed scores of Fitzgerald crew members, Navy officers and maritime experts. Here's a look at some of the report's findings:

1. Incomplete certifications.

Even as the destroyer was headed on a secret mission toward contested waters in the South China Sea, the Fitzgerald had not met its readiness requirements.

"The Navy required destroyers to pass 22 certification tests to prove themselves seaworthy and battle-ready before sailing," ProPublica reported. "The Fitzgerald had passed just seven of these tests."

Perhaps most troubling, according to the report, is that the Fitz "was not even qualified to conduct its chief mission, anti-ballistic missile defense."

2. There were other close calls.

As previously reported by Navy Times, the Fitzgerald had a series of near misses before the June 17, 2017, collision with a merchant vessel.
The destroyer, ProPublica reported, had "maneuvered dangerously close to vessels on at least three occasions." But the incidents had gone mostly unreported. Eric Uhden, a prior-enlisted conning officer responsible for the safe movement of the ship, even told the Fitzgerald's second-in-command, Cmdr. Sean Babbitt, that there was a serious problem on the ship, ProPublica reported.

"And the only way for things to get better here is for us to have a serious accident or someone to die," Uhden added.

3. A ship-wide blackout.

About a week before the collision, there was a fire aboard the Fitzgerald, according to ProPublica. It resulted in a ship-wide blackout, and the classified and unclassified email systems failed.

"Officers used Gmail instead," ProPublica reported.

4. Radar problems.

Reports show that the Fitzgerald's radars weren't in full working order. Sometimes they didn't pick up nearby ships, ProPublica reported. The Fitz relied on a navigation system with 17-year-old software and since the screens didn't automatically update to show the presence of new ships, "a sailor had to punch a button a thousand times an hour" to refresh them, the report states.

Perhaps more disturbing though was the belief that even if the radars had been fully functional, "it's not clear the crew knew how to operate them," ProPublica reported.

5. Ignored pleas.

The Fitzgerald was not the only tragic mishap in the Pacific in 2017. Less than two months later, the destroyer John McCain collided with an oil tanker near Singapore and 10 sailors were killed.

Days after that accident, then-commander of 7th Fleet Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin was relieved of command. Now, he told ProPublica, he wants "the truth to come out."

Aucoin -- who'd pleaded for more manpower, ships and training time -- told ProPublica that Navy leadership has not taken responsibility for undermining America's sea-fighting ability.

6. Crew dedication.

Despite the ship's problems, the Fitzgerald's crew responded courageously when the worst happened. Leaders helped get as many of their sailors as possible to safety, putting their own lives in danger to assist others. It was the crew's actions, the report states, that kept the Fitz afloat.
"They worked in the dark, without power, without steering, without communications," the story states.

"A young officer scribbled algebraic equations in a notebook to figure out how to right the listing vessel," ProPublica reported. "The crew bailed out the ship with buckets after pumps failed. As the Fitzgerald struggled to return to port, its navigational displays failed and backup batteries ran out. The ship's navigator used a handheld commercial GPS unit and paper charts to guide the ship home."

7. A commander's call.

The day before the collision, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, the ship's former commanding officer, had sailors report to duty at 6 a.m. for training. When the drills didn't wrap up until 11 p.m., Benson made a last-minute switch to his typical night orders.

"Normally, Benson directed the officer of the deck to call him if the ship deviated from its planned course by more than 500 yards to avoid traffic," ProPublica reported. "But this night, Benson doubled the number to 1,000 yards, giving the officer more room to maneuver without having to wake him."

8. Possible confrontations.

One of the reasons Benson needed the rest, according to the report, is because he was concerned about the Fitz's upcoming mission.

Even though it's common for COs to remain on the bridge during busy nighttime transits, Benson was worried about sailing into contested waters with territorial disputes off the coast of China, which, as ProPublica points out, "could result in confrontations with Chinese warships."

That left a junior crew that had also had a long day of training in a challenging situation.

9. The crew was undermanned.

Before that mission, the Fitz had spent several months in the repair yards, and almost half of the crew had turned over, ProPublica reported. The new crew was "younger, less seasoned," the story states.

That was "the highest percentage of new crew members of any destroyer in the fleet," ProPublica reported.

"But naval commanders had skimped even further, cutting into the number of sailors Benson needed to keep the ship running smoothly," the story states. "The Fitzgerald had around 270 people total -- short of the 303 sailors called for by the Navy."

10. Key vacancies.

That left key positions aboard the Fitz unfilled -- despite frequent asks from its leaders to Navy higher-ups, ProPublica reported.

"The senior enlisted quartermaster position -- charged with training inexperienced sailors to steer the ship -- had gone unfilled for more than two years," the report states. "The technician in charge of the ship's radar was on medical leave, with no replacement."

That, they added, "made it difficult to post watches on both the starboard and port sides of the ship, a once-common Navy practice."


uss_fitzgerald_1800.png.jpg
 
tl;dr: exhausted, undertrained, undermanned crews are less effective

An important lesson for anyone in authority -- the crew you're shorting will still be heroes for you, but they may also be a danger to themselves and others.
 
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