Why did Estes.....

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No Walmarts I ever lived near carried rockets as far as I'm aware. That'd've been cool.

I'm saddened that PSII is gone, but I will enjoy the ones I have as long as I can. And there are other good Mid-Power kits, and will be more some day. Heck, Isn't Mac Perf. getting into the market?
 
MAC has a couple kits that could be viewed as mid-power, but they're still higher-end kits that require leaping over that transitional hurdle from Estes low power to something much different. The PS2 kits were a nice transition - bigger, more rugged, but otherwise very much like other Estes models. The closest thing now are probably the smaller LOC kits.
 
I think there' another aspect we're missing: Walmart.

It may very well be that Walmart has done their market study, and found the anticipated "want" for these larger kits never materialized. (How many sat on the shelves, vs. the mini Alphas flying off the shelves.. Cost?!) Or maybe they (Walmart) doesn't want to be associated with a kit that can lead to potentially damage if not built / flown / recovered in a positive method. And with that, and maybe Hobby Lobby as well, have changed the marketing for the PSII kists.

The PSII product line was not a Walmart-type product.

Hobby Lobby did buy into the PSII E2X product line in a big way but only a few of the kits (Ascender, Majestic) and motor types were purchased.
Interesting how of the five PSII E2X kits the only ones not on clearance on the Estes website are the Ascender and Majestic.

When Estes does a closeout special for the Ascender I am going to buy several. :wink:
 
Tada! My alltime personal favorite quote from JumpJet regarding the rekitted Executioner but likely contributing to the demise of the PSII builders.

Go to post 4

Plywood inedible in the state of California

I'm building the original 4 with upgrades and electronics, but I've had to mash a Scion pack to make a Leviathan (fortunately they still send the extra fin)

They may still have the Ventris, The Leviathan can be made out of a Scion, and the Argent and partizon can be made by swapping parts from the Sahara and Panavia. May need an extra tube or coupler somewhere (ask Mikeydslagle, he has an odd assortment of PSII remains around his place ;D)

My stock is running low. I have five kits left. Partizon, Argent, Leviathan, and two Ventris. All my spare parts are gone save for one 29MMT maybe. I always say I am gonna build them but realistically that's unlikely. I have moved into bigger more robust birds. Attempted to sell them all some time back but no one bought any.

I've never been to a Wal Mart that sold rockets, that I am aware of at least. And I have been to lots of Wal Marts. Seen em in Hastings and Target though.
 
They were a gateway drug for sure. I eased into mid-power YEARS ago with the Aerotech Arreaux and the NCR Lance Beta (dating myself here) when they first came out, and later a PML AMRAAM 2. Given how often I get to fly (not often, with elder care in two locations and stupid busy work), the robustness of the PSII kits is actually pretty good for me. They are in much more danger on the ground than in flight :kill:
 
The larger nike smoke must sell well. It has never been on sale or clearance.
 
I've seen an upcoming PSII kit at NSL. I'm not saying what it is, but I'll buy several... :)

Sorry, I don't want to cause any issues for someone close to the project. But the comment from Estes on their FB page about builder's kits and E2X kits was at least confirmed regarding a builder's kit. I think anyone could conclude that since the BP E16 and F15 are the sole 29mm motors now from Estes, fairly lightweight builder's kits like the Star Orbiter that can fly well on these BP motors are what you should expect.
 
The larger nike smoke must sell well. It has never been on sale or clearance.

It is now, slightly ... It came later, maybe they didn't make as many. I expect all the other kits/parts they're still working on selling were all made at once. The Leviathan was the most popular so was gone first. If they'd sold in less time all at full price they'd probably be making more.

I have the Panavia and its 14 oz. does make a big difference using the BP motors, especially if using the available F15-6 instead of the hard to get F15-4 (edit, I see hobbylinc actually has them now, first I've seen that though).
I'm slightly tempted by the PSII E2X kits being on sale now, get tired of painting.
 
I got a Leviathan very close to when it first came out, and WOW, was I impressed! I had only built Estes LPR up until that point, so I felt like I had entered a whole new level of rocketry. And for awhile, those PSII builder kits were perfect for me. They were too big for the local schoolyard, but my local club had monthly launches with a 1,000 foot ceiling and a maximum limit of G impulse motors. The Leviathan was great on Aerotech EconoJet F motors --- perfect for that field, not too expensive, and very easy to prep for launches. Now the club no longer has access to that field, and when I go to the HPR launches, I'm not interested in flying a PSII kit on an F motor. I've got several of these PSII kits and may just end up selling them.

So so that's my own personal reasons for why the PSII kits are "going away" from my own fleet. But it also makes sense to me why Estes would move away from them too for similar reasons. They are too big for a lot of schoolyard and park flying. And people fly them on non-Estes motors. I don't think Estes is focused on rockets for club launches that fly on composite motors. They want rockets for park-flying on their own brand of BP motors. If I was an Estes decision maker, I'd focus on kits that fly on Estes motors, and the biggest kits would be for the black powder E and F motors, like the PSII E2X kits and lighter weight builder kits using thin-wall tubing and balsa or plastic.

Now the question for for me is, what am I going to do with the PSII kits in my attic and the EconoJet motors in the garage. Save them for if the club gets another LPR field, or sell them?
 
.....discontinue the PSII Leviathan? This has been a very popular mid sized kit and has been frequently used in Level 1 attempts. I purchased two kits a couple of years ago on speculation and recently sold both. We are now out of stock on this kit as is every vendor I checked. Does anyone know why Estes dropped this excellent kit?

Can I ask how much you sold them for? And where did you sell them?
 
I have a couple of PSII E2X Mammoths and Trajectors - both were fun to build - not quite shake-the-box since you do need some skill with epoxy, and they fly great. Matter of fact I'm tempted by the sale prices on Estes website to buy a couple more.
 
Keep the Leviathan, fly it on 29mm H motors.

Are you talking to me? I think that is probably a great suggestion for a lot of people, but not really for me at this point. I do have rockets I like flying on H and I motors at HPR launches, even a rocket for L2 motors. But mostly I'm not that much into shooting for altitude. I used to fly my Leviathan on G motors at our HPR launches where the waiver was higher than the ceiling at our LPR launches, and that was fun, but on an H it would probably go out of sight for my eyes, and I'm not that much into long searches for rockets. Now I have a Chute Release, so maybe it's more practical, but it's not what I prefer. Mostly I've just moved on tho bigger birds! I don't have as many chances to fly, so I like to focus on the bigger stuff.
 
You just did. :surprised: ($65 each, which was the original catalog list price. One kit went to West Virginia, the other to California.)

Thanks for the info. Was that through the Yard Sale forum here, or did you use EBay or another service?
 
I wish California would experience the 11.0 predicted earth quake and fall into the Pacific Ocean.
Then all of their bull **** will gone and the rest of the 49 states won't have to suffer because of idiot politicians in California.
Then Estes could make kits with plywood fins again for the rest of us.
Thanks California!
Just drop into the ocean, would ya?
(None of the above comments should be personally if you live in California, unless you are a ploitician)

DITTO!
 
Walmart...I refuse to even go into that place.
While they have a new advertisement out on TV that states they are generating jobs, 99% of the stuff they sell come off container ships.
They also fail to mention the jobs they create are part time jobs with NO benefits what so ever and minimum wage.
This type of business is put into a list that I refer to as, "Gangsters", or "America's Business Mafia".
They ruined free enterprise for Mom n Pop Shops where you walked in the door and the owner greeted you by first name.
 
I wish California would experience the 11.0 predicted earth quake and fall into the Pacific Ocean.
Then all of their bull **** will gone and the rest of the 49 states won't have to suffer because of idiot politicians in California.
Then Estes could make kits with plywood fins again for the rest of us.
Thanks California!
Just drop into the ocean, would ya?
(None of the above comments should be personally if you live in California, unless you are a ploitician)

Or maybe not everything that Estes sells would have to come from China?
 
Or maybe not everything that Estes sells would have to come from China?

Yea. This is the one time i side with CA. Making things in the US is good for everyone. The list of issues from QC to packing issues to constantly warped fins, etc etc. people defend them for the move, but it's simple greed.
 
Well, without knowing the margins involved, I'd hold back on stating "simple greed". Its entirely feasible that in this economy, they simply weren't solvent when they built things here. Maybe they were, who knows? But remember that the late '90s and early '00s period was a dark time for the Estes line up. I was surprised to find that they'd survived when I came back around to this hobby some years later. I have no more knowledge of the specifics of Estes situation than anyone else here, but it quite possible that moving production to China is what saved them and allows them to stay around.

By the same token, in the bicycle industry, most bikes are built in China today. Many higher quality ones still come from Japan, Singapore and Taiwan, but virtually none are built in the USA. With the exception of a few high end (extremely expensive) brands - the equivalent of MAC Performance or so - no one can build bikes here and remain competitive. Schwinn really tried, but they were overrun in the marketplace by the early '80s. By around 1990, they'd sold out and had also moved to Asian production. Now they're a novelty brand. At least Estes has remained at the forefront of the entry-level part of the hobby.

Anyway, sorry for the digression.
 
I ordered a mammoth and trajector at the discount prices and will take my chances. The local hobby lobby has the motors and since I can buy them with the daily 40% off coupon it didn't seem so risky. With my track record I will land them in a tree before they sell out of motors!
 
All this is pretty understandable if you think it through from the viewpoint of a responsible business owner. Most manufacturing and packaging is in China. MPR kits of any size demand plywood fins, but Chinese plywood has become a no-go, and I'm sure Estes has no interest in making products that cannot be sold in a sizable part of the market. Shifting the PS2 prod/pkg ops to USA is expensive, and it's not realistic to try to split it by sourcing ply fins domestically and sending 'em to China for inclusion in the final product - sounds nightmarish. Outcome: you need smaller/lighter kits with balsa or plastic fins. Personally I'm very happy that Estes looks to be staying in the market in any way.
 
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