Homeless people...are they scam artist or really need help.

I feel a little less human for having read it.

When people have no choice but to get a job, they will get a job.

JStarStar said:

When people have no choice but to get a job, they will get a job.

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Not when they can't find one or for whatever prejudicial reasons they can't get hired.

JStarStar said:

When people have no choice but to get a job, they will get a job.

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I used to think that as well. Not so sure anymore.

Perhaps they need to look harder.

If anyone's looked at inflation-adjusted minimum wage, the cost of healthcare, the cost of real-estate, the cost of education, and the proliferation of multiple part-time jobs.... well, the u6 number makes a lot of sense.

The homeless problem is far more complex than just "get a job". Whatever is currently being done does not seem to be working as the population of homeless seems to be increasing. I would be happier if the tent cities and caravans parked along the road were clean and neat instead of being a traveling junk pile.

As far as scams, I am sure some of it is a scam.

Maybe when guaranteed minimum income is established the problem will mostly go away.

I think it might be a good start by offering shelter and food for the ones that are homeless if they are wiling to do community services. I mean they can be gathered up to clean our road ways and public parks for starters. This would help keep the communities and city clean and offer them a bed and 3 meals a day. Ideally going one step further offer them training courses to reintroduce them back into society. Should any of them have drug or drinking problems get them into a rehab camp. If they are not willing to cooperate then they will be given notice to leave wherever they are camping or they will have their tents removed or arrested. Some of these people hike around the cities for miles. If you can do that you should be able to do low impact labor. I think getting them to believe things will get better will go a long way then having them occuping our parks, city alleys, drainage canals and under passes. I think getting documentation on them would help find out about their medical history.

This is an interesting thread. I remember a homeless by choice person that would come into an ice rink I was working at and the owner would let him have a cup of coffee. He was a really interesting person to talk to, but he had to start taking his cup of coffee outside as he freaked out the Moms there.

And in a particular parking lot, it was near a homeless encampment in the woods. Occasionally a person would come begging. If I had the money and felt appropriate I'd give them one or two or five. I had to learn, the story they may be giving me may or may not be the truth, BUT after I gave the money it was up to them to do right with it. I had to release that money and let it become their's totally and not their's with strings attached. It is very hard to learn that. So, I think it better to not give unless you can release it totally and it truly become their money to do with as they will.

grouch said:

I used to think that as well. Not so sure anymore.

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That brings to mind our apartment complex out here in a midwestern farmland county seat burg,
and a decent job available here. Well, 2 jobs now, a maintenance person is needed now, too.
We have been without a manager since the one died of a heart attack Superbowl Sunday, almost 5 months ago.
Well, there was a lady who held the job for 3 days then said, that's enough of this nonsense.
Job is to manage 2 apartment complexes in towns 80 miles apart, without getting paid mileage,
and with doing all the paperwork for senior housing, and for Section 8 rent assistance housing.
And you have to make up for where previous manager was 2 months behind on paper work,
plus the intervening 4 or 5 months with none done for 2 apartment complexes in towns 80 miles apart.
No one seems to really need the job, so the economy must be doing a lot better than what the news says, right.

Oh, and there are some residents who have researched the thing and discovered the pay and benefits being offered
are reduced from what the previous manager was getting.

JStarStar said:

When people have no choice but to get a job, they will get a job.

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That too is a big part of the problem. A great many of the homeless people that I've met already *have* jobs.

Some have more than one.


And they're still homeless.

Two or three weeks ago I met a woman who has lived in a local motel (where many transients and homeless live) for three years. Let me say that again. They've lived in temporary housing, two people sharing one room (and sometimes it's whole families with school-age children), without a kitchen, hotplate, or access to hot food (outside of paying someone for it) for THREE YEARS. Her husband works. But they've gotten "stuck" in a bad situation. They don't live under a bridge, but what they make never gets them far enough ahead to save up for a security deposit and other things that you need to make it to a permanent solution.

Others are trying (or are stuck) to overcome barriers to employment that our government and our culture has seen fit to put between them and better employment. Still others, as many have noted, have psychological, physical, or emotional problems that would prevent them from being employed (at least full-time).

That's why the problem is so difficult.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" solution because you cannot describe "a homeless person" in one monolithic paragraph. There are hundreds of reasons that people are homeless, and no one solution will fit for all of them.

Peartree said:

That too is a big part of the problem. A great many of the homeless people that I've met already *have* jobs.

Some have more than one.


And they're still homeless.

Two or three weeks ago I met a woman who has lived in a local motel (where many transients and homeless live) for three years. Let me say that again. They've lived in temporary housing, two people sharing one room (and sometimes it's whole families with school-age children), without a kitchen, hotplate, or access to hot food (outside of paying someone for it) for THREE YEARS. Her husband works. But they've gotten "stuck" in a bad situation. They don't live under a bridge, but what they make never gets them far enough ahead to save up for a security deposit and other things that you need to make it to a permanent solution.

Others are trying (or are stuck) to overcome barriers to employment that our government and our culture has seen fit to put between them and better employment. Still others, as many have noted, have psychological, physical, or emotional problems that would prevent them from being employed (at least full-time).

That's why the problem is so difficult.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" solution because you cannot describe "a homeless person" in one monolithic paragraph. There are hundreds of reasons that people are homeless, and no one solution will fit for all of them.

Click to expand...

Please stop making sense. It may become infectious. :wink:

Peartree said:

That too is a big part of the problem. A great many of the homeless people that I've met already *have* jobs.

Some have more than one.


And they're still homeless.

Two or three weeks ago I met a woman who has lived in a local motel (where many transients and homeless live) for three years. Let me say that again. They've lived in temporary housing, two people sharing one room (and sometimes it's whole families with school-age children), without a kitchen, hotplate, or access to hot food (outside of paying someone for it) for THREE YEARS. Her husband works. But they've gotten "stuck" in a bad situation. They don't live under a bridge, but what they make never gets them far enough ahead to save up for a security deposit and other things that you need to make it to a permanent solution.

Others are trying (or are stuck) to overcome barriers to employment that our government and our culture has seen fit to put between them and better employment. Still others, as many have noted, have psychological, physical, or emotional problems that would prevent them from being employed (at least full-time).

That's why the problem is so difficult.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" solution because you cannot describe "a homeless person" in one monolithic paragraph. There are hundreds of reasons that people are homeless, and no one solution will fit for all of them.

Click to expand...

Something needs to be done where we can get these people better jobs or offer a training in different skill sets that will allow them to better themselves. I mean whatever can be done. Maybe a vocational school of some sort? I'm sorry to hear this honestly because people like this are making an honest effort to get ahead, but even with minimum wage whatever it may be is still not enough. Living in a hotel is NOT cheap! Even if the hotel / motel offers weekly rates its still ridiculous.

AfterBurners said:

Something needs to be done where we can get these people better jobs or offer a training in different skill sets that will allow them to better themselves. I mean whatever can be done. Maybe a vocational school of some sort? I'm sorry to hear this honestly because people like this are making an honest effort to get ahead, but even with minimum wage whatever it may be is still not enough. Living in a hotel is NOT cheap! Even if the hotel / motel offers weekly rates its still ridiculous.

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Absolutely. One of our church members (who died suddenly last year) was dirt poor and lived on disability, but she lived in a trailer park. it wasn't particularly nice and her landlord didn't do maintenance very well, but she was enormously frustrated by the people who were trapped in the motels (there are actually several in our area) because she paid less per month in rent than the people in the hotels paid in a week. The problem is, they couldn't save up enough to pay a whole month's rent at a time, let alone a month or two in advance for a security deposit. It's really frustrating to watch (and I'm sure even more frustrating to live) because they are literally just a half a step from a better life, but how do you help them get "over the hump?"

I wish I knew, but I'm still thinking about it... and so are a lot of other people.

Any ideas are welcome.

seems appropriate for this thread:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/we-we...-donates-10k-to-thunder-bay-shelter-1.3444404

dr wogz said:

seems appropriate for this thread:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/we-we...-donates-10k-to-thunder-bay-shelter-1.3444404

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Wow!

Soapbox time!
I was resisting posting but I have to. I was once briefly homeless. Some time after losing everything to a Chapter 7, I decided to move to Buffalo, NY(not known for jobs or housing, I know.). I drove into town with nothing but my car and the stuff in it, maybe $600 cash. Slept in my car or a hotel room. I spent 12 hours a day though looking for both a job and a place to live. Within a WEEK I had been hired and had a room to rent. I only made barely above minimum wage but my rent was a measley $175/mo. I spent almost the last of my money on the first/last deposit, which was $350. Just enough for food until my first paycheck. There is always a way if you work hard.

It was tough for the first year but I made it work. I'm doing just fine now. In North America if you're mentally and physically healthy, there's no excuse for long-term homelessness. Yes, sometimes people are in a bad spot but that's no reason to stay there. There are always options. My Mom(single mother) was on welfare for about 6 months when I was little. She used that time to go back to school and work towards a degree from which she could support her two kids and eventually a mortgage and to send the eldest to College. My wife comes from a 3rd world country. There are real reasons in places like that for people to be in poverty or homeless, but not here. Not here.

I can totally understand if someone has a physical or mental disability, convicted felon, or especially an addiction. That's a different issue. They need help for that first. I don't give change to people on the street since that just feeds their addiction and finances their dealer. I don't hesitate to give real food though. Sometimes they take it, sometimes they just want money. All you can do is offer them what they need.

I have seen someone begging for money, then run around the corner and take off in their Mercedes. I have also seen someone struggling with addiction that was happy for a donut and a bit of conversation. You can never tell.

I have lots of sympathy for those who are really in need of help in life. But let's draw this clear distinction: If you are physically and mentally able to work and are a law-abiding citizen, the only thing standing in the way is hard work. For some, hard work is too hard. If you can't make it here, somethings wrong. However, if you have a disability, mental or physical, addiction, or criminal record, then you have reasons, not excuses and therefore could use the support of people around you.

A car full of stuff and $600 is very different from $17.50 and shoes that are cardboard-and-taped.

I've never been quite that low, but I know that after about my third day of sleeping rough in the same clothes I'd be essentially unable to land a job interview ( no shave, bad smell, visibly soiled ).

Would I beg? I'd beg for a job, any job. Would most people stop to listen? I very much doubt it.

dhbarr said:

A car full of stuff and $600 is very different from $17.50 and shoes that are cardboard-and-taped.

I've never been quite that low, but I know that after about my third day of sleeping rough in the same clothes I'd be essentially unable to land a job interview ( no shave, bad smell, visibly soiled ).

Would I beg? I'd beg for a job, any job. Would most people stop to listen? I very much doubt it.

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Ok I'll bite. Let's dissect this with logic for a minute...

Refer to this link which reflects what I've heard in the past. You can make much more than minimum wage just panhandling.

That $17.50 most likely only took you an hour and a half to earn panhandling. Do it for another 2 hours and buy some decent shoes. But maybe not quite yet, you'll earn less if you have new shoes on. Earn $60 your first day, after a week you'll be stinky but have $400-$500. Now buy some fresh clothes, a razor, and get a hotel/motel for the night. Take a good shower and put on those new clothes of yours. Now go for a minimum wage job interview looking and smelling decent. If they don't give you the job, put your dirty clothes back on and earn another $400 for a week of panhandling. Rinse and repeat until successful.

Sound ridiculous? The point is, if you're of sound mind and body, there's no excuse. Not having money is no excuse for not earning it. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it because not having money isn't the problem. There's something else at issue that needs attention.
Maybe instead of handing them a dollar bill, next time hand them an invitation to your Church or the address of an free treatment center?

I'm sure we've all heard about Ted Williams and his story. What was the thing that dragged him down? Drugs and alcohol. Money didn't take that away. Proper treatment was the only thing that helped. Once he got sober, things got better.

Cabernut said:

Ok I'll bite. Let's dissect this with logic for a minute...

Refer to this link which reflects what I've heard in the past. You can make much more than minimum wage just panhandling.

That $17.50 most likely only took you an hour and a half to earn panhandling. Do it for another 2 hours and buy some decent shoes. But maybe not quite yet, you'll earn less if you have new shoes on. Earn $60 your first day, after a week you'll be stinky but have $400-$500. Now buy some fresh clothes, a razor, and get a hotel/motel for the night. Take a good shower and put on those new clothes of yours. Now go for a minimum wage job interview looking and smelling decent. If they don't give you the job, put your dirty clothes back on and earn another $400 for a week of panhandling. Rinse and repeat until successful.

Sound ridiculous? The point is, if you're of sound mind and body, there's no excuse. Not having money is no excuse for not earning it. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it because not having money isn't the problem. There's something else at issue that needs attention.
Maybe instead of handing them a dollar bill, next time hand them an invitation to your Church or the address of an free treatment center?

I'm sure we've all heard about Ted Williams and his story. What was the thing that dragged him down? Drugs and alcohol. Money didn't take that away. Proper treatment was the only thing that helped. Once he got sober, things got better.

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Awesome. I've now got two part time minimum wage jobs and no health insurance.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, truly. I've been blessed with two huge scoops of fortune, and I apparently haven't squandered it.

I'm simply suggesting that puritanical bootstraps aren't an all-encompassing panacea, particularly if one didn't arrange to be born & raised well.

Puritanical bootstraps... nice wordsmithery. I'm also simply making the point that it's all moot if you don't address the root of the problem. An addict needs to get off the drugs before he or she can get their life together.

The truly down and out with mental illness or a drug and alcohol problem deserve our sympathy, empathy, and most importantly, help. Those who whine about not having it easy and won't lift a finger to better themselves, sorry can't help you.

Cabernut said:

Ok I'll bite. Let's dissect this with logic for a minute...

Refer to this link which reflects what I've heard in the past. You can make much more than minimum wage just panhandling.

That $17.50 most likely only took you an hour and a half to earn panhandling. Do it for another 2 hours and buy some decent shoes. But maybe not quite yet, you'll earn less if you have new shoes on. Earn $60 your first day, after a week you'll be stinky but have $400-$500. Now buy some fresh clothes, a razor, and get a hotel/motel for the night. Take a good shower and put on those new clothes of yours. Now go for a minimum wage job interview looking and smelling decent. If they don't give you the job, put your dirty clothes back on and earn another $400 for a week of panhandling. Rinse and repeat until successful.

Sound ridiculous? The point is, if you're of sound mind and body, there's no excuse. Not having money is no excuse for not earning it. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it because not having money isn't the problem. There's something else at issue that needs attention.
Maybe instead of handing them a dollar bill, next time hand them an invitation to your Church or the address of an free treatment center?

I'm sure we've all heard about Ted Williams and his story. What was the thing that dragged him down? Drugs and alcohol. Money didn't take that away. Proper treatment was the only thing that helped. Once he got sober, things got better.

Click to expand...

Thats a good point. well stated

The Dayton Daily News has been running some stories on panhandlers in the city. City officials for Dayton, OH and Montgomery County are telling people not to give to panhandlers. One city commissioner has even said that she believes that many panhandlers are organized and working together and that there is a strong link to opioid abuse. Programs are being set up for people to donate to a new charity that will help those in need.

Here is a link to one of the stories:
https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/reporter-things-learned-hanging-out-with-dayton-panhandlers/6HS9zN5VG7MJHXjzGM7IeK/

I grew up in a little town outside of Montreal QC. a sub-burb basically. well off, quiet, clean. a nice area to retire, or for eh better off to raise kids. There were the odd welfare cases, but they were rare, and had a very valid claim to welfare. "Bums" lived in town.

One day, a 'bag lady' appeared in the town square. No one really knew what to do about it. She asked for money, some / most gave her a few coins. One mane apparently even gave her some new bags to lug her stuff around in. She got quite comfortable, and soon she was getting regular hand outs from the locals. She was a novelty, and the only one in town!

It was good, but soon became a bit of a burden, and she was asked to leave. she eventually did..