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  1. #1
    Join Date
    17th November 2015
    Posts
    1,021

    Downscale Quinstar!

    I have a (stock) Estes Quinstar that I love flying - it's low and slow, but it's a cool spinning flight. So it's great for small fields and such.

    It occurred to me: I know people are out there 3d-printing and laser-wood-cutting upscale Quinstars. Which is really cool. But I don't have a 3d printer or a CNC cutter.... so I had a wacky idea: Why not downscale the Quinstar? As it is, it's 5 sheets of laser-cut balsa. What if I scan it, downscale to fit a 13mm motor, reprint it on paper, then cut it out of cardstock? It would be fiddly, I think, but it would be neat....


  2. #2
    Join Date
    14th July 2015
    Location
    Randolph, NJ
    Posts
    2,945
    I might still be inclined to use 1/16" balsa rather than cardstock. I think it's easier to cut and work with in general, and weight shouldn't be an issue.

    And it can be hand cut. Doing a hand cut downscale sounds like a breeze compared to my upscale.

    I say go for it!

    Recently completed: APRO Lander II and Starship Avalon; next up: Accur8-skinned Trajector and Ragnarok Orbital Interceptor
    My photo albums: fleet pics and OR Models

  3. #3
    Join Date
    13th October 2014
    Location
    SouthEastern, WA
    Posts
    5,391
    Quote Originally Posted by ActingLikeAKid View Post
    I have a (stock) Estes Quinstar that I love flying - it's low and slow, but it's a cool spinning flight. So it's great for small fields and such.

    It occurred to me: I know people are out there 3d-printing and laser-wood-cutting upscale Quinstars. Which is really cool. But I don't have a 3d printer or a CNC cutter.... so I had a wacky idea: Why not downscale the Quinstar? As it is, it's 5 sheets of laser-cut balsa. What if I scan it, downscale to fit a 13mm motor, reprint it on paper, then cut it out of cardstock? It would be fiddly, I think, but it would be neat....
    Print the patterns on self adhesive label paper and half your papering is done.
    Rich

    NAR# 99154

    L3-4x upscale Estes Cherokee-D- AT M1297W 5/28/2016 http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...r-rharshberger

    TriCities Rocketeers NAR section# 736 http://www.tricitiesrocketeers.org/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    sounds like a good idea. It might be strong enough to do a fold-over construction, where you laminate a cardstock sandwich folded over a thin cereal-box type cardboard sheet in the middle.

    you could also try some of the free 13mm cardstock templates from Art Applewhite:
    http://www.artapplewhite.com/free.html

  5. #5
    Join Date
    19th May 2011
    Location
    Pueblo West, CO
    Posts
    686
    Card stock is very heavy compared to balsa. I would use some firm 1/32" balsa.


    John Boren

  6. #6
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    11,454
    I cannot believe that cardstock wouldn't work just fine. I have lots of cardstock saucers and saucer-lile objects. That being said and IMO, balsa could actually be easier.
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  7. #7
    Join Date
    19th May 2011
    Location
    Pueblo West, CO
    Posts
    686
    See if these PDF files help you out any.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    Join Date
    9th May 2011
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    801
    Go to your local Michael's (or othersuch framing store) and ask what they have for matte remnants. I bought a decent sized sheet of 0.07" matte board for my (1:1) UFO Invader clone
    Phill Ash
    SouthEastern Virginia Rocketry Association (SEVRA)
    2016 Tot Impulse: 3819.2 Ns (L2, 47 motors, 43 flights)
    2017 Tot Impulse: 4605.2 Ns (L2, 45 motors, 44 flights)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post
    See if these PDF files help you out any.
    Many thanks! I printed these up at 72%, about 13/18 ratio, on regular printer/copier paper, then glue sticked that to 110 card stock, then glue sticked another layer of printer paper on the other side. Still a little flimsy, but very light, about 0.4 oz so far. I opted not to cut out the lightening holes, which does not look quite as cool, but I was worried about strength of the 3 ply paper/cardstock sandwich. The main inner star would probably be plenty strong enough, now that it is glued up and dried. The outer K triangle points have a little flex in them, so I am thinking about adding some bracing to the inside underneath part near the neck of that joint. Possibly just a short length of launch lug hidden in there would help to strengthen the joint. Should be fine for 13mm motors, I will weigh it after I add the 13mm motor mount tube and 13/18 centering rings.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    12th September 2013
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Posts
    944
    Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post
    See if these PDF files help you out any.
    This is just awesome! I ran scans of the balsa through Illustrator to get just about the same files. But didn't think it was my place to share.
    Charles McGonegal
    Ciderwright at AeppelTreow Winery & Distillery
    www.appletrue.com
    NAR #103560 L1 6/25/17 Estes Leviathan CTI H175-SS
    Ad Astra Tabernamque!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    15th June 2011
    Location
    Macon GA
    Posts
    2,376
    Interesting coincidence:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    LW Bercini
    TRA #00134 / NAR #18121
    Seeing "the box" from the rear view mirror since 1970


    I don't measure my enjoyment of the hobby in Newton-Seconds

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many otherwise intelligent people have such poor reading comprehension.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    14th July 2015
    Location
    Randolph, NJ
    Posts
    2,945
    All the world's a Quinstar!
    Recently completed: APRO Lander II and Starship Avalon; next up: Accur8-skinned Trajector and Ragnarok Orbital Interceptor
    My photo albums: fleet pics and OR Models

  13. #13
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    11,454
    Quote Originally Posted by JumpJet View Post
    See if these PDF files help you out any.
    That was very generous of you.
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  14. #14
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    I am going to build another one with my laminate layers reversed, instead of a cardstock sheet sandwiched between two sheets of copier paper, I am going to use two sheets of cardstock to sandwich a single sheet of copier paper. The two cardstock sheets will be rotated 90-deg. Hopefully this will be strong enough after punching out the holes, we'll see. When you print these 5 sheets up at 72% scale you can fit all of them on one 8.5"x11" page. My initial prototype seems plenty strong enough after letting the glue with generous fillets thoroughly dry overnight. Not sure if I would try launching this downscale on an 18mm engine...probably strong enough, but an 18mm engine sticks out the aft end quite a bit, c.g. may be too far aft, just looks questionable. But these spinning saucer rockets are not really within the range of my mind sim.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    17th November 2015
    Posts
    1,021
    I actually bought a second Quinstar kit with plans to scan (and then, y'know, that need was avoided!) but I think I'm going to paper this one, at least partially. It's a gorgeous kit and a fun flyer, but it's at least 30% CA by now.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    17th November 2015
    Posts
    1,021
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Something like this (quick and dirty, MS Paint) -- just papering (in red) the bits that would be "outboard" of the star, and a little bit beyond the joint so the joints don't snap. And even if I lose 30% of the altitude, still a fun flyer. And I can always eschew the motor mount and stuff a D in there.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    ActingLikeAKid is ThinkingLikeAnEngineer. For the 13mm 72% mini-downscale, I was thinking along those same lines, that you could also paper the paper in regions where you need to add strength, rather than making the entire sheet multi-ply constant thickness. Just use paper doublers in the region of the wider slots might be all you need. The original balsa sheet is 1/16", right? so if you scale the thickness by 72% that is roughly 0.0625*0.72 = 0.045 or 1.143 mm, about 4 ply of 110 cardstock. If you use thicker than downscale sheets, then you may have to adjust how wide you cut the slots from the scaled pattern. I don't think you need 4 ply cardstock for the entire sheet, but maybe some doubler or tripler cardstock to beef up the outboard joint area shown here:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the three ply, cardstock over copier paper, dry fit of the star cage. Strong enough to cut the holes, and looks really cute next to a 13 mm engine casing.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #18
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    Click image for larger version. 

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    These are the two variations on the paper sandwich theme. I have one more idea to try with a single cardstock ply and local doublers where needed, we'll see how that turns out. I should have white out the letters on the print out before photocopying them to the cardstock, but they kind of look cool.

    Anyone want to take the challenge of downscaling this further, to MICRO? 6mm MMX motors?
    6/18 scale is 0.333.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    4th October 2014
    Posts
    659
    I thought I would try one more 13/18 downscale of the 13/18 downscale. (Very similar to a 13/24 ratio of the original) The main body tube is now 13mm rather than 18mm. This one is a single layer of 110# cardstock. I might have to add some reinforcement to the neck joint at the K triangles, white glue is still wet, it might dry hard enough. If it still feels flimsy, I might add a thin doubler cardstock strip to each side of the neck joint. This is what the 72% and the 72%-squared downscales look like with 18mm and 13 mm motors. I don't think I would try to fly with an 18mm, might be okay for an A or B, but a C might rip it apart, and it just looks too bottom heavy.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Really cool interlocking design with just 5 sheets, very clever kit and fun to build and fly.


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