President greets TARC students

o1d_dude said:

Music is all about math, frequencies, and patterns. Think about it.

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Perhaps, but I have observed that most of the people who participate in musical things were primarily forced by their more rigorous parents, who also made them study harder. So the two are correlated, but that does not necessarily imply causation.

My only issue with refocusing STEM into STEAM is that there has always been a significant emphasis on the arts almost to the exclusion of science. It has been the tendency for girls especially to be directed to the arts. As I understood it, much of the original impetus of developing STEM programs was to counteract the arts emphasis that most schools already had and help draw students (male and female) toward hard sciences. Adding Art to STEM to create STEAM would seem to dilute the intent and add emphasis to an area that already has plenty.

Having a balance of STEM and the arts is very valuable. My career as an engineer was greatly improved by my interest and education in the arts. The important thing is to have that balance. Concentrating on the arts and excluding STEM subjects is a horrible mistake. Concentrating on STEM and excluding arts has pitfalls also. Effective communications depend on the arts.


Steve Shannon

Peartree said:

My only issue with refocusing STEM into STEAM is that there has always been a significant emphasis on the arts almost to the exclusion of science. It has been the tendency for girls especially to be directed to the arts. As I understood it, much of the original impetus of developing STEM programs was to counteract the arts emphasis that most schools already had and help draw students (male and female) toward hard sciences. Adding Art to STEM to create STEAM would seem to dilute the intent and add emphasis to an area that already has plenty.

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I've actually seen more of the opposite. Since science is covered by state tests, it gets more attention than arts. In my kids' middle schools, science class has been mandatory, but it has been extremely difficult to take both art and foreign language. At the high school level, more science credits are required than arts credits. On a bigger level, I think it's really important to have good design in engineering. I can draw an excellent box, but drawing something beautiful takes art and is important. How many times do we see something here and say "wow, that's a beautiful rocket!" We should say the same things about bridges, buildings, etc. Also, look at the difference between the Boeing CST-100 capsule (OK, now the Starliner) and the SpaceX crewed Dragon. Both of them do the job, but one of them looks a lot better than the other.

According to a recent article from the AIAA the US is still behind the world in students pursuing the math and the sciences. The role of STEM is still as important as ever. You can read the AIAA article here:

https://www.aerospaceamerica.org/Do...ca_PDFs_2017/May2017/CornerOffice_MAY2017.pdf

boatgeek said:

I've actually seen more of the opposite. Since science is covered by state tests, it gets more attention than arts. In my kids' middle schools, science class has been mandatory, but it has been extremely difficult to take both art and foreign language. At the high school level, more science credits are required than arts credits. On a bigger level, I think it's really important to have good design in engineering. I can draw an excellent box, but drawing something beautiful takes art and is important. How many times do we see something here and say "wow, that's a beautiful rocket!" We should say the same things about bridges, buildings, etc. Also, look at the difference between the Boeing CST-100 capsule (OK, now the Starliner) and the SpaceX crewed Dragon. Both of them do the job, but one of them looks a lot better than the other.

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I see what you mean, but we must all be careful not to confuse "arts" with "fine arts" the terms are not interchangeable. Fine arts is music, dance, painting, and art appreciation. "Arts" is English, Spanish, reading, writing, government, and pretty much anything that isn't specifically mathematics, engineering, and "hard" sciences. "Arts" in general terms leads students to study in degree programs that result in a "Bachelor of Arts" which, in general terms, is the majority of earned degrees by a substantially wide margin.

And, for the record, I do not mean to denigrate the arts. While I am an engineer (Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering), I was in bands and choirs all through junior high, high school, and my undergraduate years. I also make a living writing and doing public speaking (Masters of Divinity). Being well-rounded is important in a great many ways, but as I understand it, the intent of STEM was to steer more young people toward degrees in the hard sciences and engineering.

Steve Shannon said:

Having a balance of STEM and the arts is very valuable. My career as an engineer was greatly improved by my interest and education in the arts. The important thing is to have that balance. Concentrating on the arts and excluding STEM subjects is a horrible mistake. Concentrating on STEM and excluding arts has pitfalls also. Effective communications depend on the arts.


Steve Shannon

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This is not the point of STEM nor even STEAM. As Peartree said, the focus is hard sciences, not creating balanced, well-rounded education. There are other initiatives to do that.

Engineers are a creative and ingenious lot of people. That's why they solve problems and invent things, often in large, complex organizations of people. There is no lack of creativity nor communication in the engineering world.

boatgeek said:

I think it's really important to have good design in engineering. I can draw an excellent box, but drawing something beautiful takes art and is important. How many times do we see something here and say "wow, that's a beautiful rocket!" We should say the same things about bridges, buildings, etc. Also, look at the difference between the Boeing CST-100 capsule (OK, now the Starliner) and the SpaceX crewed Dragon. Both of them do the job, but one of them looks a lot better than the other.

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Of course. Architecture and styling are the appropriate letter "A" in STEAM. That's as far as the arts should go into STEM. The "look" of cars, bridges, and toothbrushes all enhance the product and work hand-in-hand with the engineering design.

Most people don't buy their own airplanes, so the outward appearance of the Delta Airlines Boeing 727 doesn't really matter. I'm not sure they would care about the look of their space capsule either when they pay to go into orbit.