Aircraft Carriers

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cbrarick said:
If all the antimissle stuff on all the ships don't work, ask the escorting tin cans what their final mission is........
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Dad and Grandad were Tin Can sailors. During 60s, 70s, Cold War years Dad was on several remodeled WW2 leftovers, generally FRAM'ed Sumners and Gearings: of all the different ship types he was on he said he had the most fun on the DDs.
Mom says that at the graduation from Destroyer School in Newport RI the Admiral said outright something like that he wouldn't pretend, so, ladies, your husbands are expendable. And, actually, she appreciated the honesty, she's not a player of games which don't come in boxes.
There is a tale told of Dad of one day where he had had his fill of a Soviet DD screwing around with their formation, enough is enough. So ... he ordered flank speed and steer straight for their bridge.
Given their relative motion a collision was not going to happen but the view of an old Gearing with a huge bow wave and throwing a bit of a rooster tail coming right at them apparently was a wee bit unnerving to the Soviets. Go Navy! Go Dad!
 
Reftra 84 thru the end of overhaul & sea trials 87. What division were you in? I was RM
 
Really want to sink a CV? Ram it with a sheep ship, them things are dangerous, https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/photos-russian-spy-ship-sinks-in-black-sea
On Thursday, the Turkish Coast Guard rescued the crew of the Russian Navy reconniassance ship Liman, which collided with the livestock carrier Youzarsif-H in the Black Sea.
The Youzarsif was under way from Romania carrying a load of sheep to Jordan. She encountered the Liman about 20 nm to the northwest of the entrance to the Bosporus, and for reasons that are not yet fully known, she collided with the Russian vessel’s starboard side.
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:wink:
 
Enterprise Sailor here... We hit an underwater mountain (Bishop's Rock) in 1985 and ripped a hole in the ship (I was asleep at the time of the indecent), yet continued to remain at sea for another 2 weeks to complete our mission. It is a lot more difficult to sink a carrier than most people realize.
Yes, there are engineering reasons for the ski jump, but to me they just look funny. What ever fly's your plane I guess........
 
Our expendables ..... or I mean escorts wouldn't let them get close enough to ram......
 
The United States carriers are so far in advance and capability to other carriers as to almost constitute a joke.

The amount of fire power our carriers can deliver is extreme.

The airspace around our carrier groups is likely some of the most heavily guarded airspace on the planet. When you consider the escorts loaded with Aegis and associated missiles, and the air power of the carrier itself, it is tough combination to beat.

Then there is in the water. Do you really think there is not an attack sub or two in the area in case somebody decides to approach.

A carrier task force can project more military might than many nations. Then consider that we have 10 of these groups, and more coming online.
 
markkoelsch said:
...The amount of fire power our carriers can deliver is extreme. ...
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There was an article (which originated in Newsweek) on Yahoo News last week saying that US CVN have no anti-missile capability and were armed with "5000 heavily armed soldiers" (I $#!+ you not). We all got a laugh over that on the Ike FB Group.
 
PhlAsh said:
There was an article (which originated in Newsweek) on Yahoo News last week saying that US CVN have no anti-missile capability and were armed with "5000 heavily armed soldiers" (I $#!+ you not). We all got a laugh over that on the Ike FB Group.
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Found it, apparently they saw the error of their ways,
Correction: An earlier version of this story said that armed soldiers were aboard the USS Carl Vinson. This has been changed to sailors. It also said that it was equipped with stealth jets. This has been changed to jets.
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https://www.newsweek.com/carl-vinso...=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo
The wording is interesting - those are not saying the same thing:
1.) "... appears to have one fatal flaw as it motors toward the Korean Peninsula: It is not capable of shooting down missiles."
2.) "... pack some heavy firepower, it has emerged that they are unable to shoot down ballistic missiles, of which ...."
Makes sense,
"Speaking about the USS Carl Vinson’s capabilities (or lack thereof) when it comes to ballistic missiles, a Pentagon spokesperson told Bloomberg News. “We don’t discuss specific capabilities of weapons systems. No single capability defends against all threats. Rather it is the employment of integrated, multi-layered land and sea-based systems that provide missile defense.”"
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When the folks at USNI say 'ships' here I'm going to take it as meaning ships in total, all ships; and I'm going to expect that things are not in exactly the same state as they were in 2009.
"If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack."
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https://www.usni.org/news-and-features/chinese-kill-weapon
(and, man, I wish I'd been able to acquire and keep all of Dad's 1960s and 1970s issues of USNI Proceedings)

Above article refers to this, also from 2009
https://blog.usni.org/2009/03/30/risk-averse-political-policy-requires-high-end-focus
To support this weapon system, China has also developed a series of reconnaissance capabilities ranging from satellites to signals intelligence to UAVs intended to locate US Navy surface forces and engage any ships moving into an attack zone, suggested to be inside the second island chain.

While elements of the program, including the DF-21 ballistic missile system itself, is thought to be IOC with published information now coming out in Chinese military journals, what is very clear is that the weapon system, and the supporting tracking and reconnaissance networks, are all in a steady state evolutionary development. This suggests that just as the US Navy is in an evolutionary process with ballistic missile defense, China is engaged in a similar evolutionary process for ballistic missile offense against major vessels at sea.
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Oh, and there's that underwater missile, torpedo, thing too, https://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1711759-us-carriers-deploy-new-torpedo-defense-system
09/28/2016 “The ATTDS is designed to detect, classify, track and localize incoming torpedoes utilizing the Torpedo Warning System leading to a torpedo hard-kill by employing the Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo,” Collen O’Rourke, spokeswoman for Naval Sea Systems Command, told Scout Warrior.

Thus far, the ATTDS has completed three carrier deployments. The ATTDS Program of Record plan for future ships includes additional carriers and Combat Logistic Force ships.

Earlier this year, the ATTDS was installed and operated on the USNS BRITTIN (TAKR-305) over a six day period during which the latest system hardware and software was tested. The results of the testing are instrumental for continued system development, O’Rourke added.

The technology is slated for additional testing and safety certifications.

The emergence of a specifically-engineered torpedo defense system is quite significant for the Navy - as it comes a time when many weapons developers are expressing concern about the potential vulnerability of carriers in light of high-tech weapons such as long-range anti-ship missiles and hypersonic weapons. An ability to protect the large platforms submarine-launched torpedo attacks adds a substantial element to a carrier’s layered defense systems.
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Well, if all else fails, it looks like the Vinson has some token anti-missile defense.

2 × Mk 57 Mod3 Sea Sparrow
2 × RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile
3 × Phalanx CIWS
 
Not the first time some two bit country tried to threaten (and even attack) our carriers since the 80's. Ask Gadaffi how well that worked out for him.
 
PhlAsh said:
There was an article (which originated in Newsweek) on Yahoo News last week saying that US CVN have no anti-missile capability and were armed with "5000 heavily armed soldiers" (I $#!+ you not). We all got a laugh over that on the Ike FB Group.
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I read the same article. Yahoo, and rest of the media, seems to not have a clue.
 
modeltrains said:
I often cut them a little slack figuring they're journalists, not geniuses.
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Yeah, but you'd think that anyone who calls themselves a journalist would at least know how to interview someone who knows, pick up a copy of Jane's Ships, or google an article.
 
My wife was been interviewed by the local press a few times as part of her job. She indicated that almost everything she told them went over their heads even though she kept it as general as possible. The local news people get sent out to interview all sorts of people about a huge variety of things. If they end up talking to someone on a topic they know nothing about they probably just get overwhelmed and don't understand the details. Plus they have tight deadlines where they have to get the story in by a certain time regardless of it being right or wrong. They may not have time to research anything. Plus, if they can make something sound sensational then they have every incentive to do that.
 
Zeus-cat said:
My wife was been interviewed by the local press a few times as part of her job. She indicated that almost everything she told them went over their heads even though she kept it as general as possible. The local news people get sent out to interview all sorts of people about a huge variety of things. If they end up talking to someone on a topic they know nothing about they probably just get overwhelmed and don't understand the details. Plus they have tight deadlines where they have to get the story in by a certain time regardless of it being right or wrong. They may not have time to research anything. Plus, if they can make something sound sensational then they have every incentive to do that.
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For some inexplicable reason after reading that a 1980s song comes to mind,
I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something-something I can use
... Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry
...
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blond
Who comes on at five ...
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https://youtu.be/YHimia_Fxzs

And then coming to mind are a few things from local TV news when we lived in VA Beach VA in 1980s :facepalm:
 
cbrarick said:
Ski ramp carriers also have a significant disadvantage: can't do simultaneous takeoff and recovery. I'd put the carrier I served on (the Ike) against a couple of ski jump carriers any day - especially given the rest of the carrier task force!
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NatGeo has a documentary called Super Carriers. It does not appear to be on Netflix currently, but the episode on the Ike was amazing when I watched it a couple years ago.

I worked for the Naval Weapons Center in the mid 70s, and while working on Sidewinder missiles, I flew to North Island to spend a day aboard the Ranger. What a great experience for a 23 year-old engineer/kid to crawl all over the ship to see how weapons were handled, besides getting a very detailed tour of the ship.
 
Carriers were cool in WW2, helped us win it. Probably why they were not in port when Pearl Harbor happened, many think they knew it was coming. Primarily from decrypts that DISAPPEARED AFTER THE WAR. But their day may be over. Even Kim Jung Boom says he can take one out.:facepalm:

The Russians have a nuke torpedo that goes about 500 mph, inside some kind of air bubble. They also have a cruise missile that is hypersonic, Mach 4, I think. Fire a salvo of those, and the Aegis will be overloaded.

Those new stealth cruisers look crazy, and I read don't even work, always breaking.

They should go back to the PT boats, with jet drive and lasers. About 5000 of them.
 
XolveJohn said:
Carriers were cool in WW2, helped us win it. Probably why they were not in port when Pearl Harbor happened, many think they knew it was coming. Primarily from decrypts that DISAPPEARED AFTER THE WAR. But their day may be over. Even Kim Jung Boom says he can take one out.:facepalm:

The Russians have a nuke torpedo that goes about 500 mph, inside some kind of air bubble. They also have a cruise missile that is hypersonic, Mach 4, I think. Fire a salvo of those, and the Aegis will be overloaded.

Those new stealth cruisers look crazy, and I read don't even work, always breaking.

They should go back to the PT boats, with jet drive and lasers. About 5000 of them.
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Its called a supercavitating torpedo, fun part is the sub still has to get close enough to fire it. The Russian model is the VA-111 Shkval and has been deployed for over 20 years, the range (its secret of course) is expected to be about 10 miles, even with its 230+ mph dash speed, the firing sub would probably be detected and sunk by a US sub or ASW aircraft before it got close enough to fire.
 
I believe that with some luck, a foreign military could mission kill (ie make unusable) a US aircraft carrier. It's happened often enough in exercises with friendly countries where a sub has gotten within firing range of a carrier. That said, what next? Unless the torpedo/cruise missile had a nuke on it, the carrier is probably headed for drydock for repairs. If it did have a nuke, then WWIII breaks out. The Russians sure aren't going to do that--they've got too good a thing going skimming the oil money and living la vida loca.

So one carrier is out of action, what next? If you're that military, you've just kicked over a massive hornet's nest, and it's not going to be pleasant. There's another carrier on scene within a few days to a couple of weeks, and in the meantime the USAF is going to be pounding the crap out of you. Not to mention subs and other surface ships launching cruise missiles, etc. etc.
 
rharshberger said:
Its called a supercavitating torpedo, fun part is the sub still has to get close enough to fire it. The Russian model is the VA-111 Shkval and has been deployed for over 20 years, the range (its secret of course) is expected to be about 10 miles, even with its 230+ mph dash speed, the firing sub would probably be detected and sunk by a US sub or ASW aircraft before it got close enough to fire.
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The Shkval is what nailed the Kursk from what I have read. They test fired one and something went wrong with the safety. Boom! It is a rocket propelled torpedo.
 
boatgeek said:
So one carrier is out of action, what next? If you're that military, you've just kicked over a massive hornet's nest, and it's not going to be pleasant. There's another carrier on scene within a few days to a couple of weeks, and in the meantime the USAF is going to be pounding the crap out of you. Not to mention subs and other surface ships launching cruise missiles, etc. etc.
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Even though I could Google it in less than half the time taken to write this, isn't there something called the law of diminishing returns? Sounds kind of applicable to that.
 

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