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Incongruent said:
Make a list with the materials the builder will have to supply.

If the instructions will be printed and included with the kits, add a QR code to go with links.

I personally feel that the font size is too large.

Some of the "LET DRY"s should be "LET CURE." ------------Hmm, what do you mean?? I didn't know there was a difference between the two..-----------

Part 9: What paint scheme above? --------I added that!! :)-----------

Part 5: I would have the user poke a hole with a hobby knife and superglue isn't the best way to attach. -------I fixed that!-----------

You don't mention how to use the clay. If this was someone's first kit that requires it, would they know what to do? ---------------"I have had it in step one: here it is::::: PART ONE:
Open the package holding the clay, and roll it into a ball, use a pen or dowel and push the clay to the tip of inside the nose cone."---------------


Plastic cement works for the nose cone as well. I would even say it to be favorable against the other options.

You need a LOT more detail. For instance, in motor mount assembly you have hardly any detail and some of the units are off. 4" is longer than a standard 18mm motor. Include mm conversions for the units and more measurements or blueprint quality drawings. The LL line is not centered in the drawing, it should be [root(2)]/2 units from the center assuming the rectangle representing the BT is 2 units tall. Is there a glassine ring for the motor hook?
Click to expand...

And lastly, I'm going to try to put more detail in.. I have the --------- surrounding what I said about what you thought...
Thanks,
 
Maybe you guys can add your editing to it... Unfortunately the file is to big to upload to TRF............ :mad::facepalm::eyeroll:
Thanks,
 
Drying is when the solvent leaves the adhesive (or other substance) and curing is when the adhesive (or paint, etc.) chemically changes to the cured state, such as when the two parts in epoxy interact.

Sorry, I missed step 1 somehow.

If you want to, I can make some diagrams and drawings for you when I have the time and motivation if you post the measurements.
 
Yeah, it's a simple kit, probably skill level 1. Yeah, everybody wants nice instructions that are fully illustrated but I've bought kits, some high power kits that had very basic instructions and almost no illustrations. The manufacturer figured you probably know what to do and don't give you much detail.

If I understand correctly, Andrew is primarily aiming this kit to TRF members. They've pretty much been around the block a time or two. They know how to build. I seriously doubt this will be anyone's first fit. But it is Andrew's first kit to manufacture. It's not going to be perfect, he has a lot to learn. I'm not sure if he's even able to produce the drawings that would normally go into the instructions. And I might point out, writing instructions is a bit difficult, especially the first time out. I say we cut him some slack and help him out as we can. I've just sent him what will probably be the best laser cutting quote he'll ever see. I know he's on a shoestring budget and I've decided to help him out.

Andrew, as for your instructions, you've already gotten a critique from me so I won't repeat anything I've already covered. I am a little concerned with your engine block location. The normal 18mm motor is 2.75" long and usually you have .25" exposed at the rear. That means the rear of the engine block should be 2.5" from the rear of the body tube. I would instruct people to cut a 1/8" slit 2.5" from the rear of the BT for the engine hook. But, without some kind of retaining ring over the hook, I would eliminate that part and just make the motor friction fit with tape. My worry is that without some kind of outside support, when the hook is deflected by the motor being inserted or removed, it will peel away from the tube, no matter what glue is used. Old school builders may remember a piece of gauze being used over the hook.

Check out the file I sent you and let me know if I have your fin size and shape correct. Once that's confirmed I can lay out the fins and see how many will fit on a sheet of balsa and we can go from there.
 
Incongruent said:
Drying is when the solvent leaves the adhesive (or other substance) and curing is when the adhesive (or paint, etc.) chemically changes to the cured state, such as when the two parts in epoxy interact.

Sorry, I missed step 1 somehow.

If you want to, I can make some diagrams and drawings for you when I have the time and motivation if you post the measurements.
Click to expand...

Sure! :)
The measurements:
9" long BT
3" plastic nose cone
3" yellow spacer
the shock cord I don't know, it's the standard Estes rubber shock cord you'd find in a small LPR Estes kit.
2" tall, 3/4" wide, 1/8 thick balsa fins.

Thanks,
 
SecretSquirrel said:
Yeah, it's a simple kit, probably skill level 1. Yeah, everybody wants nice instructions that are fully illustrated but I've bought kits, some high power kits that had very basic instructions and almost no illustrations. The manufacturer figured you probably know what to do and don't give you much detail.

If I understand correctly, Andrew is primarily aiming this kit to TRF members. They've pretty much been around the block a time or two. They know how to build. I seriously doubt this will be anyone's first fit. But it is Andrew's first kit to manufacture. It's not going to be perfect, he has a lot to learn. I'm not sure if he's even able to produce the drawings that would normally go into the instructions. And I might point out, writing instructions is a bit difficult, especially the first time out. I say we cut him some slack and help him out as we can. I've just sent him what will probably be the best laser cutting quote he'll ever see. I know he's on a shoestring budget and I've decided to help him out.

Andrew, as for your instructions, you've already gotten a critique from me so I won't repeat anything I've already covered. I am a little concerned with your engine block location. The normal 18mm motor is 2.75" long and usually you have .25" exposed at the rear. That means the rear of the engine block should be 2.5" from the rear of the body tube. I would instruct people to cut a 1/8" slit 2.5" from the rear of the BT for the engine hook. But, without some kind of retaining ring over the hook, I would eliminate that part and just make the motor friction fit with tape. My worry is that without some kind of outside support, when the hook is deflected by the motor being inserted or removed, it will peel away from the tube, no matter what glue is used. Old school builders may remember a piece of gauze being used over the hook.

Check out the file I sent you and let me know if I have your fin size and shape correct. Once that's confirmed I can lay out the fins and see how many will fit on a sheet of balsa and we can go from there.
Click to expand...

I actually do have rings for the engine hooks.... I'll include those with the kits.
Thanks,
 
rockets said:
I actually do have rings for the engine hooks.... I'll include those with the kits.
Thanks,
Click to expand...

Okay, if you're going to include that ring, figure out where you want it. I have the root edge of your fins at 2" currently. If the fins will have to fit over the ring, we'll need to notch the fins.
 
andrew, again i applaud your enthusiasm.i know this kit is aimed at members here- people who have built rockets.
however, its just my opinion, but you may want to revise the fin glueing instructions a bit
"use a straight-edge to draw 4 straight lines onto rocket tube. Glue on one fin at a time! LET DRY"
where should they be located as far as aft of rocket? flush with back of BT? 1/4" up?
also, maybe how to get those 4 lines equally placed around the BT?
 
tomsteve said:
andrew, again i applaud your enthusiasm.i know this kit is aimed at members here- people who have built rockets.
however, its just my opinion, but you may want to revise the fin glueing instructions a bit
"use a straight-edge to draw 4 straight lines onto rocket tube. Glue on one fin at a time! LET DRY"
where should they be located as far as aft of rocket? flush with back of BT? 1/4" up?
also, maybe how to get those 4 lines equally placed around the BT?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. Take a look at this and see if you want to use it.

View attachment andrew2.pdf
 
How much of the clay is needed? All or what fraction of the package if otherwise?
 
Incongruent said:
How much of the clay is needed? All or what fraction of the package if otherwise?
Click to expand...

Hmm, I would take a quarter of it at a time, and after each quarter check the CG to see if it's even, so you may need to use a quarter, half, 3/4, or a full square...
 
blackjack2564 said:
PS I have shipped 30-35 small kits. Have not found a cheaper solution than the triangle shaped free boxes from the Post Office. Just cut them down to size you need.
Click to expand...

I'm sure his kits will be smaller and lighter than the ones you sent. So, first class would be a better option. It would probably cost four or five dollars more to ship by Priority Mail.

-- Roger
 
If you are going to re-sell Estes components and packaging, you might want to get permission from them to do it.
If you are going to take Estes' copyrighted material for you instructions (that engine hook illustration for example) you'll probably want to get their permission.
Apogee & Madcow might have something to say about the photo on your blog page if you haven't talked to them about using it.......


You really need to think about what you are doing.
Since I can't seem to say anything nice, I'll shut up.
 
T-Rex said:
If you are going to re-sell Estes components and packaging, you might want to get permission from them to do it.
If you are going to take Estes' copyrighted material for you instructions (that engine hook illustration for example) you'll probably want to get their permission.
Apogee & Madcow might have something to say about the photo on your blog page if you haven't talked to them about using it.......


You really need to think about what you are doing.
Since I can't seem to say anything nice, I'll shut up.
Click to expand...

I have been watching this since the beginning and I have to put my two cents in now.

Andrew, have you discussed this business with your parents and/or guardian? You need to understand that if something goes terribly wrong, not only will you be subject to legal actions but since you are a minor your parents/guardians will be responsible for legal costs and potentially damages that could take everything your family owns. There are legal entities like a LLC or SCorp that can limit the damage to you and your family, but they take money and action. Further, the moment you start selling these kits you will be in business and may need a business license, in my state/county the business license is free but come tax time there is a $300 filing fee. The next county over gets a $300 filing fee plus taxes on materials and equipment used in the business. I strongly suggest that your parents/guardian talk to a lawyer before you take any money. In Maryland most public libraries host a free civil legal aid events where you can talk to a lawyer and get advise. There are laws at every level from city, county, state and federal that you have to comply with, being a minor or not knowing the law is never a defense. Even your proposed "use/build at your own risk" warning not be allowed in some locations. Even if you are in the right, you may have to defend yourself legally.

As T-Rex already pointed out you have potential legal issues already that you need to address.

I am not a lawyer but I have seen what can happen to a family when things go sideways.
 
There's a distinction between selling a few kits to your friends (or even selling from a table at a launch or something) vs. actually selling to strangers over the internet (across state lines, no less). The former can be pretty fast and loose, the latter not so much.
 
djkingsley said:
I have been watching this since the beginning and I have to put my two cents in now.

Andrew, have you discussed this business with your parents and/or guardian? You need to understand that if something goes terribly wrong, not only will you be subject to legal actions but since you are a minor your parents/guardians will be responsible for legal costs and potentially damages that could take everything your family owns. There are legal entities like a LLC or SCorp that can limit the damage to you and your family, but they take money and action. Further, the moment you start selling these kits you will be in business and may need a business license, in my state/county the business license is free but come tax time there is a $300 filing fee. The next county over gets a $300 filing fee plus taxes on materials and equipment used in the business. I strongly suggest that your parents/guardian talk to a lawyer before you take any money. In Maryland most public libraries host a free civil legal aid events where you can talk to a lawyer and get advise. There are laws at every level from city, county, state and federal that you have to comply with, being a minor or not knowing the law is never a defense. Even your proposed "use/build at your own risk" warning not be allowed in some locations. Even if you are in the right, you may have to defend yourself legally.

As T-Rex already pointed out you have potential legal issues already that you need to address.

I am not a lawyer but I have seen what can happen to a family when things go sideways.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but according to Jim up there, he said that I do not need to get a license unless I'm making about $600-$1000+.
Also, I am not responsible for any damages made with my rockets, they are tested! :)
Thanks,
 
The instructions for the thrust ring are incorrect. You do not put glue on the thrust ring and then push it in; you apply a circle of glue to the appropriate point inside the BT using a chopstick or something and then push the thrust ring into position. As mentioned previously, the bottom (aft) end of the thrust ring should be about 2.5" from the bottom of the rocket, to allow for some protrusion of the engine out the back.
 
rockets said:
Yeah, but according to Jim up there, he said that I do not need to get a license unless I'm making about $600-$1000+.
Also, I am not responsible for any damages made with my rockets, they are tested! :)
Thanks,
Click to expand...

You are experiencing confirmation bias. Jim is not an experienced lawyer on the matter, whereas the government is the authorative source. You must get a license (for Ohio) to legally operate any business. IIRC there was some turmoil a while back over how even things like lemonade stands were legally required to register as businesses.

Some state jusisdictions do nullify liability statements. If you read the liability statement on Estes instructions you'll find that they say how it does not apply in some states.
 
neil_w said:
The instructions for the thrust ring are incorrect. You do not put glue on the thrust ring and then push it in; you apply a circle of glue to the appropriate point inside the BT using a chopstick or something and then push the thrust ring into position. As mentioned previously, the bottom (aft) end of the thrust ring should be about 2.5" from the bottom of the rocket, to allow for some protrusion of the engine out the back.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe I asterisked that for rewriting.
 
rockets said:
Also, I am not responsible for any damages made with my rockets, they are tested! :)
Click to expand...


While you may ultimately be found not to be responsible, simply having someone file a suit and having to defend it can bankrupt people. You may be "right", but that doesn't really matter. This is another reason to incorporate. Doing so creates another entity with separate assets and liabilities. It prevents some lawsuit happy person from going after you or your family directly, they can only attack the business. The other posts that this affects your parents/guardians should not be taken lightly. If my kid wanted to do what you are doing, I would require them to form a corporation of some sort and have liability insurance. Most states have the forms and such online, you can print and mail them. Though there is often a fee of some sort involved.

You will want to avoid using anyone's photos, text, or illustrations in your materials. Copyright claims can also bring huge judgments. Particularly in cases where you are making money from the infringement. How much money isn't really a concern, damages are statutory. If the images you use are licensed in such a way that you are allowed to use them, make sure that is documented somehow. The best case for you in this situation is someone uses DMCA to bump your site offline. The worst case is the lawsuit above.

Reselling parts from other manufacturers isn't likely an issue. First sale doctrine is pretty well established. But again, being "right" in a lawsuit is still expensive.

I'm not trying to discourage you from this venture. I think more people should run a business, even a small one, to get experience in how things work. That said, do it smart. Cover your assets. There are plenty of vultures out there just waiting for someone to make a little mistake thinking they are too small to bother with.
 
Alright can you guys make a list of what things I need to file with government, and how to do so?
I can't keep up with everything....
Thanks,
 

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