Blue Baboon One

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I was going to wait and do all the pins at the same time, but I'm still figuring out what to do with the nose cone, so the nose cone pins will have to wait.

Here is how I did the alignment pins for the av-bay to booster and av-bay to payload tubes. The advantages of using the pins include:
  1. Even though the av-bay is symmetric you can't install it upside down because there is one pin on the payload and two on the booster side.
  2. Any shear pin holes will be perfectly lined up, no spinning and twisting to get holes aligned.
  3. As with shear pins, any rivots/screws used to attach the payload tube will also be automatically aligned.
Anyway, here's the pics.

0506171205.jpg
Start by aligning the tubes and taping them in place so they stay put. You have to make sure the tubes stay together tight. It doesn't matter if there is some rotation after drilling the hole for the single pin on the payload tube, but the two pins on the booster have to be drilled without any rotation or movement. I use a brad point drill to drill the holes. I find the brad point works best because it's easy to see that it is starting right on the joint and it cuts through without tearing up the fiberglass.

0506171208.jpg
Rough up the inside around the holes so the epoxy sticks well

0506171232.jpg
I guess you could use wood dowels, but I like the fiberglass rods. They are harder and I expect them to outlast the rocket.
I clamp the vacuum hose in place to pull the dust and cut pieces off the rod with the Dermal. I do it over the hole in the 2x4. The shop vac is pretty strong and this way the pieces drop in the hole and can roll away and gets sucked up by the vac.

0506171238.jpg
I mix up a little 5 min. epoxy, put a little in each hole and tap the rods in place with a small hammer. The rods are a snug fit and I tap them down until they extend slightly above the outside surface. I'll use a file to cut them down smooth with the surface.
WARNING - If you use a Dremal to sand them down, be very careful you don't overheat the fiberglass rod. The resin in the rod will ignite if you get it too hot and then you have to get the slow smoldering fire out or your rod ends up as a loose bunch of black glass fibers. Don't ask.....

0506171239.jpg
After the rods are in, use the last of your 5 min. epoxy to coat the inside where you roughed up the glass. This probably doesn't keep the rods in place so much as it eliminates sharp edges where wires and such could catch as you insert or remove your electronics.
 
Hi Handeman-You pose a good question. I have only used the epoxied shelf supports and coupler nuts as electronics bay supports-i.e.- to contain trackers and wireless receiver/relays for turning altimeters on and off. I didn't find traces of BP products within the nose cone after chute ejection. If concerned, one could use epoxy clay (e.g. https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Epoxy_Clay/FIXIT_Epoxy_Clay) to build a shelf within the nose cone to abut the bulkhead and make the joint air tight. Please see pictures wighty44's nose cone bulk head below:

Fred, L2


attachment.php
 
I was going to wait and do all the pins at the same time, but I'm still figuring out what to do with the nose cone, so the nose cone pins will have to wait.

Here is how I did the alignment pins for the av-bay to booster and av-bay to payload tubes. The advantages of using the pins include:
  1. Even though the av-bay is symmetric you can't install it upside down because there is one pin on the payload and two on the booster side.
  2. Any shear pin holes will be perfectly lined up, no spinning and twisting to get holes aligned.
  3. As with shear pins, any rivots/screws used to attach the payload tube will also be automatically aligned.
Anyway, here's the pics.

View attachment 319294
Start by aligning the tubes and taping them in place so they stay put. You have to make sure the tubes stay together tight. It doesn't matter if there is some rotation after drilling the hole for the single pin on the payload tube, but the two pins on the booster have to be drilled without any rotation or movement. I use a brad point drill to drill the holes. I find the brad point works best because it's easy to see that it is starting right on the joint and it cuts through without tearing up the fiberglass.

View attachment 319295
Rough up the inside around the holes so the epoxy sticks well

View attachment 319296
I guess you could use wood dowels, but I like the fiberglass rods. They are harder and I expect them to outlast the rocket.
I clamp the vacuum hose in place to pull the dust and cut pieces off the rod with the Dermal. I do it over the hole in the 2x4. The shop vac is pretty strong and this way the pieces drop in the hole and can roll away and gets sucked up by the vac.

View attachment 319297
I mix up a little 5 min. epoxy, put a little in each hole and tap the rods in place with a small hammer. The rods are a snug fit and I tap them down until they extend slightly above the outside surface. I'll use a file to cut them down smooth with the surface.
WARNING - If you use a Dremal to sand them down, be very careful you don't overheat the fiberglass rod. The resin in the rod will ignite if you get it too hot and then you have to get the slow smoldering fire out or your rod ends up as a loose bunch of black glass fibers. Don't ask.....

View attachment 319298
After the rods are in, use the last of your 5 min. epoxy to coat the inside where you roughed up the glass. This probably doesn't keep the rods in place so much as it eliminates sharp edges where wires and such could catch as you insert or remove your electronics.


What diameter rods are you using?
 
The rods are 3/16". I've used 1/4" wood dowels on some of my cardboard tube rockets, but bought some 3/16" fiberglass rod. I've used 3/16" on 3" to 6" BT and it has worked well.
 
If there is concern about a "gap" when mounting a bulkhead which might affect correct barometric readings by an altimeter, then a simple alternative fix to using epoxy clay would be to use a stepped bulkhead in lieu of non-stepped one. That should be airtight and similar to a traditional av-bay.

Fred
 
If there is concern about a "gap" when mounting a bulkhead which might affect correct barometric readings by an altimeter, then a simple alternative fix to using epoxy clay would be to use a stepped bulkhead in lieu of non-stepped one. That should be airtight and similar to a traditional av-bay.

Fred

I agree. I have no plans for this nose cone right now, but because of that, I have no idea what I'll want to do with it in the future. I want to leave my options as open as possible.

I like the idea of the stepped bulkhead.
 
. . . Even though the av-bay is symmetric you can't install it upside down because there is one pin on the payload and two on the booster side. . .

I've spent a lot of time swearing while trying to spin a big tight fitting tube around to get the right alignment for shear pins so I like your alignment pins idea. But it seems to me that it is already impossible to install the av-bay upside down because there are shear pin holes on the booster side and screw/rivet holes on the payload side.
 
I've spent a lot of time swearing while trying to spin a big tight fitting tube around to get the right alignment for shear pins so I like your alignment pins idea. But it seems to me that it is already impossible to install the av-bay upside down because there are shear pin holes on the booster side and screw/rivet holes on the payload side.

I think you're right on that. I don't use shear pins on most of mine and use screws instead of rivets and although you can't assemble the rocket with the av-bay upside down, you can attempt it :facepalm:
 
It's been a while since I worked on this. Between Holiday weekends, honey-do lists, and other odd jobs, the Blue Baboon has sat for a while.

I pretty much have a plan for the nose cone, but decided to work on the fin can today.

This fin can is pretty standard and there are lots of build threads that can show you how to assemble it. Mine will be no different. What I did want to post was some tricks and tips I have for assembling the fin can. Many of you probably do these already, but for the ones that don't, here's some of the ways I go about building the fin can.

The first thing that has to happen on a fiberglass rocket is you need to rough up the surface to be epoxied with 60 or 80 grit sand paper. Since adhesives can't soak into fiberglass like wood or cardboard, you have to supply a rough surface so the epoxy will have a strong mechanical bond. Even with a good rough surface, the fiberglass to epoxy bond is probably going to be the weakest part of the joint.

So I start with my favorite stick. Everyone has one. Mine is about 16" long and is part of a broom handle with a slight taper on one end. It's got paint, burns, vise marks, etc. all over it, but it's so useful and a good hardwood that I don't think I could replace it if I wanted to.
0604171200a.jpg

I taped a piece of 80 grit sand paper around the tapered end and used that to sand the inside of the BT where the forward CR would seat and along the fin slots. I was able to get my fat hands in far enough to rough up the aft end of the BT without the stick.

0604171153a.jpg 0604171155b.jpg

If you look down the tube, the first thing I did is run a heavy scratch around the inside of the tubes where the fwd CR would be glued. I then worked my way around the inside of the tube to makes sure the surface where the CR was going was roughed up.


0604171202a.jpg

There was glue from tape and some threads embedded in the glue which I suspect was from the duct tape used to tape the pieces together when they were machined. I usually use Acetone as a last resort because of the volatility. I tried odorless mineral spirits first and that took the glue off so it is all good, much more pleasant and healthier than using Acetone.

0604171212a.jpg

I then determined how far the external fillet would go up the fin. I taped off the fin so I wouldn't scratch it except where I wanted to. Normally I don't bother because a single coat of filler primer will fill in any exposed scratches and after paint, you would never know. But this kit has the black cone and fins and the blue BT. I'm not planning on painting it so I wanted it to look as good as possible when I'm done. That is why I taped off the fins before roughing up the surface that will be epoxied.

0604171215.jpg

If you look close at this pic you can see small black thread like pieces on the white cloth. That is the surface of the fin where the 80 grit sand paper cut grooves. It is actually a good thing when you see this. It means you are creating a rough surface that will give the epoxy plenty of grip.


0604171223.jpg

Although most of you know this already or will figure it out pretty quick, but you want to pull the tape off using the side of the tape that wasn't sanded. By pulling at almost a 90 deg. angle, you pull all the tape up before lifting the edge that was sanded. If you don't do this the tape will tear and leave pieces on the fins as you try to pull it off because of all the cuts started on that edge by the 80 grit sand paper.

I already epoxied the fwd CR to the motor tube. Like I said, that is a pretty standard operation that's covered by many other build threads.

Next up is assembly of the fin can. Or maybe the nose cone. depends on what I get to this week, or next weekend, or.... Oh, just wait and see...:cyclops:
 
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I pickup one of these kits at LDRS as well and plan to start on it soon. Did you find the slots in the tube to be too small for the fins? On mine I can't even force the fins in, I have to figure out how I am going to widen the slots.
 
I pickup one of these kits at LDRS as well and plan to start on it soon. Did you find the slots in the tube to be too small for the fins? On mine I can't even force the fins in, I have to figure out how I am going to widen the slots.

Fold over a piece of 60-grit sandpaper and rub it up and down in the slot. It's slow, but it'll get you there.
 
I pickup one of these kits at LDRS as well and plan to start on it soon. Did you find the slots in the tube to be too small for the fins? On mine I can't even force the fins in, I have to figure out how I am going to widen the slots.

Fold over a piece of 60-grit sandpaper and rub it up and down in the slot. It's slow, but it'll get you there.

A flat needle file works well for widening fin slots.

I only made a quick try on the slot and although I can't say for sure, I think mine are too small too. I intend to use a flat file, but only on one side of the slot. I figure if I only open the "left" side of each slot, the right side should keep the alignment and spacing right if my filing isn't as accurate as the milling.

The problem with opening slots in fiberglass is that if you have to widen it a lot, it takes a long time and lots of work if you don't have a course or bastard file which are usually too big for a small slot. I have a some of the thick cutoff wheels for my dremal that might work if I use the side and be gentle about it.

I'll let you know.
 
I also have the kit and building currently
Pretty much a standard build
My fin slots were too small as well a little 80 grit sand paper opened them up fine



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Just curious if you had any updates on this project?
 
Where are you Jeff?
I PM'd him and said we miss him. The build has been on hold as life got busy. We all know how that is. Anyway, I have one of these rockets now and don't know how to build it. So I encouraged him to come back and help us.
 
Yes.... Life is really in the way right now. I think I may miss the BattlePark launch this weekend. I can't remember the last time I miss a launch.

Anyway, I'll try my best to get back to this as soon as I can. I'm retiring from one company, starting a new job, and trying to get Christmas done before we travel next week....

Sorry for the delay
 
In the meantime I did manage to complete me blue baboon. I had it set and ready to go at our last launch of the season. Plans were to fly it on a AT K700w to somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 feet. This was set to be my first flight past Mach 1 and 10,000 feet. The rocket gods did not favor me that day and move the clouds out of the way. Next opportunity will not be until May...

I look forward to seeing how you complete this one and the decisions you made.

Mendal
 
Jeff,

Have a great holiday and healthy & prosperous new year. BTW-as per the previous nose cone av-bay discussion on this build, please look at https://www.multitronix.com/nosecone.html in which the multitronics "Kate" altimeter mounting is detailed. I do a similar process; however I use 3 couplers (120 degrees apart) and fiber glass cloth (in lieu of Kevlar). As others have said I also use rocketpoxy for fin fillets (its good); but its too thick for injecting internal fillets (unless watered down). For injecting fillets-you may want to consider West system-it flows easily out of the syringe. I'm looking forward to the rest of your build.

Regards,
Fred
 
Jeff,

Have a great holiday and healthy & prosperous new year. BTW-as per the previous nose cone av-bay discussion on this build, please look at https://www.multitronix.com/nosecone.html in which the multitronics "Kate" altimeter mounting is detailed. I do a similar process; however I use 3 couplers (120 degrees apart) and fiber glass cloth (in lieu of Kevlar). As others have said I also use rocketpoxy for fin fillets (its good); but its too thick for injecting internal fillets (unless watered down). For injecting fillets-you may want to consider West system-it flows easily out of the syringe. I'm looking forward to the rest of your build.

Regards,
Fred

i forgot about that part of the discussion on this thread, I ended up double dipping the fins and then foaming the fin can with two part expanding foam. It worked really well. Fillets were done with rocketpoxy dyed blue to match the airframe. Fillets with the split fin was kind of a “fun” task but I got them done well enough, they aren’t perfect but they will fly.

mendal
 
Jeff,

Have a great holiday and healthy & prosperous new year. BTW-as per the previous nose cone av-bay discussion on this build, please look at https://www.multitronix.com/nosecone.html in which the multitronics "Kate" altimeter mounting is detailed. I do a similar process; however I use 3 couplers (120 degrees apart) and fiber glass cloth (in lieu of Kevlar). As others have said I also use rocketpoxy for fin fillets (its good); but its too thick for injecting internal fillets (unless watered down). For injecting fillets-you may want to consider West system-it flows easily out of the syringe. I'm looking forward to the rest of your build.

Regards,
Fred

Thanks for the link. That was similar to what I was intending. In the Blue Baboon I figured the couplers would fit between the nose cone and the 54mm tube. I was going to use threaded rods instead of screws.

I have since been rethinking this. I bought the tubes and coupler already, but I have the Missleworks T3 GPS tracker that I want mount and be movable between rockets. I may need to go smaller then 54mm or come up with an adapter similar to a motor adapter that will let me put the smaller sled with the T3 transmitter in the 54mm tubes. I'll probably be using 38mm for the T3 in a few smaller diameter rockets.

This is what we call "requirements creep" at work. It always seems to push the schedule to the right!
 
Here are my part weights for the AMW Blue Baboon
Black 5:1 Filament wound Nosecone 248g
Blue 32" long 3" Pre-Slotted Airframe 657g
Blue 16" long 3" forward Airframe 324g
Blue 1" long 3" switch band 19g 3.13"od/.061" wall/3.01" id/1.018-1.038"L
Blue 13" 54mm Motor Mount 190g
Blue 7" long E-bay coupler 112g 7.077(7.062)"L/2.985"od/2.881"id/.052-.06" wall
Black 2 Piece stepped ebay lids 82g total
Black 2 Centering rings 18g
Blue NC coupler 97g 5.244L
& Black BH
3 Black G10 split fins 204g total

I posted a very accurate RockSim file on RocketReviews. All dimensions under 12" taken with calipers and accurate to a few thousandths of an inch. All weights taken with a scale and accurate to within a gram. I'm sure our individual parts weigh a little different but this should get you 98% of the way there.
https://www.rocketreviews.com/rocksim-amw-blue-baboon-5467.html
 
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What do you use for dye?
Should I use liquid or powder, or either one will work?
Would this work? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074SCWN3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The blue Liquid dye used may have been that available for rocketpoxy. It's one of the dyes sold by Wildman in a kit form (several colors).Prior to using that particular dye, I tried several available at hobby lobby and I found, unlike the specific rocketproxy ones, that their addition yielded a weaker bond (diluting epoxy). In contrast, the specific rocket proxy dyes only required several drops and had no negative effect on epoxy bonding in fillet formation.

Fred, L2
KG4YGP
member of ICBM, S.C.
 
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